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F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule  
User currently offlineNZblue From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 638 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

Service begins November 30, 2007, operating Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat.

Flight: 86 (DEN-SJO)
Departs: 12:10am
Arrives: 6:25am

Flight: 87 (SJO-DEN)
Departs: 7:30am
Arrives: 12:15pm


It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1187 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Great news, I imagine they will go daily later on.

Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineOnt 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

They should fly to LIR instead.


"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Thats quite a departure time on both ends.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17513 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 2):
They should fly to LIR instead.

Why? SJO is a much bigger market.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

What's the mileage on that route? Looks like a long one.

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

Yes SJO is a bigger market on its own, however if you are after tourism (as F9 has done with Mexico) the Guanacaste Coast is the place to be and is now served directly via LIR. The drive from SJO can be upwards of 8 hours depending what beach or resorts you end up in. Now if F9 want to also go after some ethnic travel also then SJO is definately the place to be.

Big version: Width: 370 Height: 452 File size: 54kb



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

It didn't take F9 long to announce the schedules, they just applied for the authority last week.
I would imagine they will add LIR as a winter travel destination at some point.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17513 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Yes SJO is a bigger market on its own, however if you are after tourism (as F9 has done with Mexico) the Guanacaste

Regardless...the DENSJO market is bigger than LIR (almost 3 times bigger), so why would you want to send a plane to LIR over SJO?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Regardless...the DENSJO market is bigger than LIR (almost 3 times bigger), so why would you want to send a plane to LIR over SJO?

Yes SJO is bigger, however many people (the tourist) are forced to fly to SJO to simply travel beyond.

That why with the opening of LIR to commercial services more and more direct flights are being offered. LIR actually has the distinction of being served by all the US majors while some never land even land in SJO. (NW, UA etc)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
Yes SJO is bigger, however many people (the tourist) are forced to fly to SJO to simply travel beyond.

It is a big leap for a small airline. I would guess that Apple Vacations and others have had a voice in this.

If it goes well, they can always add LIR.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
LIR actually has the distinction of being served by all the US majors while some never land even land in SJO. (NW, UA etc)

Perhaps that is another good reason for SJO?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCV990A From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

So what are they going to do about the Live TV on this flight? I'd presume they are going out of the range of the Satelites- are they planning on offering more than the single F9 channel, so is it just a 'too bad' sorta arrangement?


Kittens Give Morbo Gas
User currently offlineMkorpal From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 90 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

Quoting CV990A (Reply 11):
So what are they going to do about the Live TV on this flight? I'd presume they are going out of the range of the Satelites- are they planning on offering more than the single F9 channel, so is it just a 'too bad' sorta arrangement?

They only work in US airspace. They usually offer it for free on Mexico flights until it cuts out. After that, I think it's just the on demand movies and the single channel.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 12):

They only work in US airspace. They usually offer it for free on Mexico flights until it cuts out. After that, I think it's just the on demand movies and the single channel.

That is correct. The service ends a little after hitting the borders. Wild Blue channel is ending, but they are going to offer the map for free. They may offer free movies as a start, or they may just offer free movies on the route. I think it would be a nice touch for the route.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
It is a big leap for a small airline. I would guess that Apple Vacations and others have had a voice in this.

If it goes well, they can always add LIR.

Oh yes! This is excellent news, and a HUGE leap for F9. My old man lives in SJO, and he has few options when he comes back to the states every month. There is a large US population of retired folk in Costa Rica, and this is indeed going to be a successful route.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3204 times:
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Quoting Juanchito (Reply 1):
I imagine they will go daily later on.

It's curious that there is no "pure" Saturday service. Saturday is the big day for travel from DEN to the Mexican resorts.

Because the flight leaves just after midnight, the Friday flight could be called Saturday, but it isn't quite the same.

And, with 4 x weekly, what does that aircraft do on the other three days? So far, the only other non-daily red-eye is LAS-MEM, but the days collide.

I guess if the bookings go well, they could easily bump up service - or they could add DEN-LIR - or somewhere else - as a 3 x weekly?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
What's the mileage on that route? Looks like a long one.

2,408 miles; comparable to U.S. transcon routes.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17513 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 13):
Wild Blue channel is ending

Why? Not that I'm opposed Wink



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3132 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Why? Not that I'm opposed

The channel itslf is ending, but there will still be some free programming:

"Some of its free programming will still air before planes take off and after in-flight movies end."

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5867945

"Having a free channel held down Frontier's pay-per-view revenue, said John C. Greenwood."

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Why? Not that I'm opposed Wink

I found it to be somewhat entertaining when I did not feel like paying the $5.00. I guess anything would be entertaining at 35,000 feet on a small screen. LOL!  Smile



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 18):
I guess anything would be entertaining at 35,000 feet on a small screen. LOL!

Like an iPod or PSP?

Hopefully F9 has solid results on this flights. Anyone know what there stock price is up to?



Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3010 times:
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Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 19):
Anyone know what there stock price is up to?

Oh, well beaten down. Wall Street still has the conventional wisdom that Southwest at DEN - plus a resurgent post-bk United - will destroy Frontier.

But - happily - it is also immune to the wild swings the legacy carrier shares have been showing this past few days. It is fascinating to Allegiant trading for $4 per share higher than American Airlines - and $12 higher than Delta.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
Oh, well beaten down. Wall Street still has the conventional wisdom that Southwest at DEN - plus a resurgent post-bk United - will destroy Frontier.

This is, IMO, a fascinating topic and not totally astray from the original discussion here.

FRNT (the stock) definitely appears to be stuck in the doldrums. I think the main factors boil down to: high fuel prices, a sluggish pricing environment, UA and WN, limited real estate at DEN, and the perception that F9 can't make anything work outside of DEN (save, of course, Mexico).

I'm not sure what would help either.. short of UA announcing they're selling their DEN assets to CO. Even reliably making money isn't good enough (much to the chagrin of LUV holders).

It seems like Frontier's management thinks the best course of action is to just keep their heads down and run a smart airline.. don't be afraid to try new routes, flee without looking back when they don't work, wisely implement the E170, and diversify with Lynx. I just wonder if institutional holders will have the patience to see it all through.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2902 times:
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Quoting Kohflot (Reply 21):
I just wonder if institutional holders will have the patience to see it all through.

If they've stuck with this long, I can't think why they'd pull out now.

I think your analysis is spot on, but I believe that the major problem is the Conventional Wisdom - that Southwest and United will squeeze Frontier out.

In fact, United is the one having financial problems at DEN - as the CEO noted in their last quarterly report - and Southwest at DEN is not a total scorched earth victory.

As to the "non-DEN" issue, LAX-SJD and MEM-MCO might put paid to that - Frontier appears to have broken the jinx.

But - these days - they don't particularly want "non-DEN. They tried being more like Southwest, and have, happily, decided that being Frontier is better.

But the Conventional Wisdom is hard to change. Scott McCartney did a piece in the WSJ talking about Southwest at DEN making United feel pain - and only as a side issue observed that Frontier has actually increased market share.

But it does change - slowly the "sell" ratings are changing to "hold". Then again, most analysts are based on the east coast and have no conception of the Frontier operation at DEN.

So Frontier has invited about forty analysts to DEN for a two-day junket, to see what is going on.

That'll be interesting.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

This has probably been posted elsewhere, but when does Horizon stop flying as F9 JetConnect? And when does Lynx start flying?

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
As to the "non-DEN" issue, LAX-SJD and MEM-MCO might put paid to that - Frontier appears to have broken the jinx.

Which ties in nicely with the topic at hand. Can SJO (or LIR) become the next CUN or SJD for F9? They indicated they want to serve Costa Rica from "points in the US".

Outside of DEN, there are a handful of markets that might work.. LAX comes to mind right away. It's longer than DEN-SJO by about 300 miles though.. and that may just be pushing the 319 to its limits, especially with unfavorable takeoff weights restrictions at SJO.

SFO-SJO might work too, but it's over 3000 miles.

So then we head east.. apparently HP has had problems making PHX-SJO work, even with connections. AA and CO have DFW and IAH tied up. MCI, STL, MEM, and IND are probably just too small without any sort of package tour connection. South Florida to Costa Rica isn't happening, and I don't see MCO as a real possibility either. ATL would prompt Delta to offer hourly flights on B763s with quadruple miles and free mojitos. And MSP would force NW to figure out how to get an armada of DC-9s there and back.

So that leaves these interesting but maybe not-so-great options.. AUS, SAT, MDW, and BNA.

And these intruiging options.. LAX and PHL.. the latter taking advantage of some weakness in US's armor there. Tis a shame BWI isn't on the route map anymore. I think BWI-SJO would have been a winner.. at least a few times a week.

PS - Dear Frontier.. speaking of the route map.. what's up there? Does your site just not like Firefox or Netscape or is everyone forced to break out the magnifying glass? I jest, but wow.. that's tiny.


25 Mariner : Oh, I don't think so. There may be one or two more routes to Costa Rica (non-DEN), but I think it's much more likely that the hints for other places
26 LTU932 : Curious timings. I don't know if passengers are going to be happy with that midnight departure. Too bad for the SJO spotters, because those A319s wil
27 MAH4546 : AA and LR fly LAX-SJO and US is on PHL-SJO. IMO, I don't really see room for Frontier on either route.
28 Tripleboom : I'm not a pilot, I don't know a lot about weight restrictions, nor how temperature affects them, but might the timings of the flight's arrival and mo
29 LTU932 : Well, isn't that why DEN has that over 16,000 ft long RW34L/16R?
30 Post contains images Mariner : I believe Lacsa uses the A319 for LAX-SJO, which is, as you say, 300 miles longer than DEN-SJO, so I guess it's possible. Travelocty says the Lacsa f
31 Tripleboom : My question had more to do with the take offs out of SJO that from what has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum can be quite challenging on one of
32 LTU932 : Probably, but the AC flight to YYZ departs in the afternoon as well, and has no problems taking off from RW07. RW07 is IMO more restricted for longha
33 Post contains images Mariner : I think they heard you. Click on the map - it opens in a new window. mariner
34 Post contains links KingCavalier : Looks like we'll see a 2nd Costa Rican destination announced soon? http://www.denverpost.com/airlines/ci_6015715
35 CVG777 : Liberia is probably in the works then. Now they can better cover tourism on both coasts of the country, if they do start Liberia.
36 Post contains images Mariner : And/or, according to that article, possibly from Los Angeles. I've read the SEC filing and yes, the article is correct - Frontier tells the SEC that
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