5th due to arrive in December, 6th on its way after that. 4th a/c to be used for additional STN frequency or new city? I wonder what's om the horizon for E0.
FA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 days ago) and read 2599 times:
from eosairlines.com:
Eos Airlines Expands its Fleet as it Prepares for Future Trans-Atlantic Routes
PURCHASE, N.Y., May 21, 2007 — Eos Airlines announces today that it has increased its fleet to four Boeing 757-200ER aircraft in preparation for future new routes and additional frequencies to its current schedule. A fifth aircraft is scheduled to be received in December with negotiations for a sixth underway. As part of an “uncrowded” travel experience, the planes will be outfitted for Eos Class service in a configuration which features individual “suites” for every guest, with 21 sq. ft. of personal space and a patented, award-winning seat that converts to a 6’6” horizontally flat bed. This innovative cabin design was one of the many reasons Eos was named 2007’s “Best Long-Haul Business Airline” by Business Travel World.
“We’ve gained a loyal following with discerning travelers who love Eos Class service and just want to see more frequency and destinations, so we’re excited to say we now have additional aircraft and are acquiring others to meet this demand,” said Jack Williams, CEO.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2486 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2): I would like to see Maxjet or Eos moved in on Boston or Miami, which have large premium markets to London.
Could an all business class configured 757 even make STN-MIA nonstop? STN-BOS is certainly within reach, but STN-MIA, even with a low density all business class configuration, is stretching it for a 752, especially in the winter.
Skyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2438 times:
Factoring in 120min ETOPS, it is only 3867nm from MIA to STN.
The 757-200 is listed with a range of 3900nm.
If EOS only plans on having 48 seats on their 757s, I think they could install winglets and maybe another fuel tank to boost the range to an easy 4000nm.
Willyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 467 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 4): Factoring in 120min ETOPS, it is only 3867nm from MIA to STN.
The 757-200 is listed with a range of 3900nm.
If EOS only plans on having 48 seats on their 757s, I think they could install winglets and maybe another fuel tank to boost the range to an easy 4000nm.
Exactly what I was about to ask - what is the range of EOS's 757's? Factoring in only 48 seats - although, perhaps they are heavier than most as they are similar to other carrier's first class seats - what cities are in range of STN westbound?
Are EOS based in the US or UK? I imagine they're American as the press release was from NY state, so I suppose their options are either expanding their STN - US destinations (Boston, Chicago, Washington, Miami) or expanding their JFK - Europe destinations (Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich)... I would think a JFK - CDG or ORY flight would do very well vs. L'avion - how are they doing by the way?
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2414 times:
Quoting Willyj (Reply 5): Are EOS based in the US or UK?
US.
Quoting Willyj (Reply 5): . I would think a JFK - CDG or ORY flight would do very well vs. L'avion - how are they doing by the way?
Its a big risk and I do not think they will attempt a move like this till they are certain money will be made. If L'Avion goes, they probaly will start this up.
MIA-STN would do well and if the timings are right. Most people who fly them are business travelers who want to arrive in the morning and go home in the evening.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
Could an all business class configured 757 even make STN-MIA nonstop? STN-BOS is certainly within reach, but STN-MIA, even with a low density all business class configuration, is stretching it for a 752, especially in the winter.
There is absolutely no range issues flying MIA-STN with an all-C configured 757. A regular 2-class 757 with winglets can reach the British Isles or Iberian peninsula from Miami with little problems. AA has looked into doing it, but it is not in the cards for them right now.
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 4): Factoring in 120min ETOPS, it is only 3867nm from MIA to STN.
The 757-200 is listed with a range of 3900nm.
So... enough reserve fuel for 37 miles? Doesn't work that way. You need at minimum to have another 30 minutes of holding fuel plus 10% in reserves, not to mention alternates on departure and arrival. You would be able to get away with it going East if the winds are good, for about an 8-8.5 hour flight time. Going west you will be stopping for fuel 9 times out of 10.
Installing winglets and adding an aux tank is roughly a million dollars per aircraft. If you really wanted to spend the money you could run a 757 from LAX to STN, why settle for MIA?
SkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1484 times:
Quoting WJ (Reply 12): So... enough reserve fuel for 37 miles? Doesn't work that way. You need at minimum to have another 30 minutes of holding fuel plus 10% in reserves, not to mention alternates on departure and arrival.
Please read the rest of my post....see below:
Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 4): If EOS only plans on having 48 seats on their 757s, I think they could install winglets and maybe another fuel tank to boost the range to an easy 4000nm.
But actually by FAA regulations an IFR flight needs fuel to destination (@ normal cruise) + fuel to alternate if there is one (@ normal cruise) + 45mins reserve (@ normal cruise) .
Quoting WJ (Reply 12): Installing winglets and adding an aux tank is roughly a million dollars per aircraft. If you really wanted to spend the money you could run a 757 from LAX to STN, why settle for MIA?
Thanks for trying to school me, but no success there. Adds like winglets will pay for themselves fairly quick in today's airline economy. Aux tanks can be removed in a reasonable amount of time too. But they'd only need tanks necessary for about 4000-4500nm because I'm sure their biz plan calls for a lot of cargo to make the flights profitable. MIA-STN, if there is a market why not?!
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1339 times:
Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 13): But actually by FAA regulations an IFR flight needs fuel to destination (@ normal cruise) + fuel to alternate if there is one (@ normal cruise) + 45mins reserve (@ normal cruise) .
Ahem... Flag operation.
The fuel needed is (rule 121.645):
1) To fly to and land at the airport to which it is released;
2) After that, to fly for a period of 10 percent of the total time required to fly from the airport of departure to, and land at, the airport to which it was released;
3) After that, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport specified in the flight release, if an alternate is required; and
4) After that, to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed at 1,500 feet above the alternate airport (or the destination airport if no alternate is required) under standard temperature conditions.
So this MIA-STN, means that for a flight time of 8 hours or 480 minutes with a standard alternate 45 minutes away (lets say MAN to the London area), you need enough to load up fuel for roughly 600 minutes in the air. That is just the legal minimum. No extra, no taxi, no hold. A standard 757ER, with no aux, can hold around 75k pounds of fuel, that route is a stretch in anything but absolute ideal conditions.
Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 13): But they'd only need tanks necessary for about 4000-4500nm because I'm sure their biz plan calls for a lot of cargo to make the flights profitable
How do you know what their business plan calls for?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1322 times:
Quoting WJ (Reply 14):
So this MIA-STN, means that for a flight time of 8 hours or 480 minutes with a standard alternate 45 minutes away (lets say MAN to the London area), you need enough to load up fuel for roughly 600 minutes in the air. That is just the legal minimum. No extra, no taxi, no hold. A standard 757ER, with no aux, can hold around 75k pounds of fuel, that route is a stretch in anything but absolute ideal conditions.
Does include the fact that Eos' 757s are in a very, very low-density configuration, therefore much lighter and holding about 1/3rd the number of passengers?
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1255 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15): Does include the fact that Eos' 757s are in a very, very low-density configuration, therefore much lighter and holding about 1/3rd the number of passengers?
The aircraft does weigh less, so it can fly for longer than other standard configuration 757's. It does however have it's limits and the amount of fuel will only carry you so far.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16): Quoting WJ (Reply 14):
standard 757ER
A 757ER? Did Boeing develop and build a 757ER?
Ask Eos, that's what they have on their press release:
Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 1): PURCHASE, N.Y., May 21, 2007 — Eos Airlines announces today that it has increased its fleet to four Boeing 757-200ER aircraft in preparation for future new routes and additional frequencies to its current schedule
and if you look at the picture here, I think you can read it for yourself.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1232 times:
Quoting WJ (Reply 17): Ask Eos, that's what they have on their press release:
Ask Boeing, Boeing never built a 757-200ER. Its a shame that Eos does not know this.
Quoting WJ (Reply 17): and if you look at the picture here, I think you can read it for yourself.
You know what, I can read, and what it says it that the airplane is a 757-2Q8.........nothing about an ER; Eos can paint what it likes on its aircraft, there is no such variant in the 757 family.
Maybe next year they can repaint and turn the airplane into a 777?
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1213 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18): Maybe next year they can repaint and turn the airplane into a 777?
I think that will solve the entire discussion... they would then be able to run MIA-STN with no problems at all...
I know there has not been an official -ER version to the 757's. There are however a bunch of ER designations on 757 models, perhaps they are refering to something else. There was a post about this that I found back from 2005. Apparently, there is still some unresolved issues.
Tbear815 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 704 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1142 times:
After going back, re-reading this thread, and looking elsewhere, it seems to me that Eos has taken the PR liberty of advertising the 752 as "ER" when possibly the aircraft is ETOPS equipped. We are all aware there is no 757-200ER, but copywriters do sometimes embellish.
However, their website certainly makes Eos an enticing carrier. With US registration and (I guess) US based management, could they fly domestically? Of course UA has it's p.s., but there are other cities (ORD/JFK, MIA/JFK, etc?) that could be O/D or continuation of the STD service. Particularly with new a/c coming on board?
DxBrian From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1059 times:
STN-MIA should easily be in the range of the aircraft, factoring in the prevailing tail winds, relatively short alternate airport distances (FLL & PBI), and the numerous airports along the Atlantic Coast of the US available for planned re-release operations.
MIA-STN is more problematic. You are flying against the wind, and there are not a lot of airports available to do a planned re-release along the route.
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 1043 times:
Quoting DxBrian (Reply 21): STN-MIA should easily be in the range of the aircraft, factoring in the prevailing tail winds, relatively short alternate airport distances (FLL & PBI), and the numerous airports along the Atlantic Coast of the US available for planned re-release operations.
MIA-STN is more problematic. You are flying against the wind, and there are not a lot of airports available to do a planned re-release along the route.
You call yourself a dispatcher or did you just confuse the directions?
Prevailing winds in the northern Atlantic are west to east. Jetstream, remember? Flights from the US to Europe are much quicker than flights from Europe to the US.
WJ From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 984 times:
Quoting DxBrian (Reply 23): You are correct, thanks for pointing out my error. That is an embarrassing mistake on my part. A little tired tonight, I guess.
Thanks for taking the high road on it though, we all make mistakes. After I re-read what I had just posted, I saw that I sounded like a complete A**, so I apologize
FA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 892 times:
Quoting Tbear815 (Reply 20): However, their website certainly makes Eos an enticing carrier. With US registration and (I guess) US based management, could they fly domestically? Of course UA has it's p.s., but there are other cities (ORD/JFK, MIA/JFK, etc?) that could be O/D or continuation of the STD service. Particularly with new a/c coming on board?
I would love to see E0 operate JFK-LAX or BUR but from what I hear they do not have domestic legs in the work. I could imagine the 4th aircraft going to a 4th daily JFK-STN or to somewhere else in Europe.
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