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Air France $7b Order  
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 558 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 23114 times:

Just hit the wire....
+ 2 A380s
+ 30 A32X
+ 18 777s (including 5 777Fs)

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...46_PAC008194&type=comktNews&rpc=44

Interesting that they state the follow on order for the A380s is PART of the compensation deal.


- n1786b

PS: why was this announced before the air show?

133 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 23060 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Just hit the wire....
+ 2 A380s
+ 30 A32X
+ 18 777s (including 5 777Fs)

This sound like a great move from Air France. They finally resolved the A380 penalties, will most likely start to replace early built A32X's and replace their remaining A343 with the B777.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 23014 times:

That brings 777 orders to at least 970. 1000 might be reached this year. I had been expecting that would happen only next year.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 22996 times:

If the 777 order is to "phase out 747 aircraft" like the article says, then I suppose this is an add-on order for more 773ERs?

I wonder how much of a discount Air France got for those two A380s.


User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 22878 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
If the 777 order is to "phase out 747 aircraft" like the article says, then I suppose this is an add-on order for more 773ERs?

I think the same, AF is very happy with their B77W and the B77W is a good replacement for their old B747-400 in their fleet.
Great news for Airbus, Boeing and also AF.


User currently offlineAF Cabin Crew From French Polynesia, joined Sep 1999, 1038 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 22834 times:

Ia Orana all !

You can also go to www.airfrance.fr or www.airfrance.com and download this year's results and you will see that AF-KL operating income is up by 32.5 % to 1.24 billion Euro, revenues are up 7.6% to 23.07 billion euros

Well done Air France-KLM !

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew



Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
User currently offlineUA777300ER From Belgium, joined Jun 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 22682 times:

With the 45 777s currently in AF fleet, 11 more on order and the 18 ordered today, they will reach a fleet of 74 B777s. This will probably make them the third biggest T7 operator, behind EK (with 47 in the fleet and 42 on order with Boeing) and SQ (with 67 in the fleet and 10 more on order). Not bad...

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months ago) and read 22659 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Interesting that they state the follow on order for the A380s is PART of the compensation deal.

But reading the article it looks like cash is the other part rather than some A350XWBs


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22478 times:

Quoting UA777300ER (Reply 9):
With the 45 777s currently in AF fleet, 11 more on order and the 18 ordered today, they will reach a fleet of 74 B777s. This will probably make them the third biggest T7 operator, behind EK (with 47 in the fleet and 42 on order with Boeing) and SQ (with 67 in the fleet and 10 more on order).

I'm with you on the AF and SQ numbers but I think you may have missed a couple of EK announcements. (Perhaps leases?) They have a total of 98 in service, on order or to be leased.

98 ?!!!  wideeyed 


User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22437 times:

I think we overstate the "mass controversy" such an order would have caused during the Paris Air Show. It wouldn't have. Has any one stopped to ask why Air France is so GE dedicated? Simple answer: the French engine manufacture Snecma has a significant stake in the GE90 (almost 25%) and 50% of the CFM-56 engines (that power their A32X fleet).

We will likely see in the future a more streamlined AF/KLM fleet with B777s and A330s as their widebody core fleet, with a relatively small but solid A380 component for heavy traffic routes, and a A32X for the narrowbodies. I don't see the B737s in KL's fleet in their for much longer (either sold off or transferred to Transavia).


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3173 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22438 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 13):
But to be honest I don't think they payed too much for them, and on a second taught why 2. ? It sure smells like an "almost giveaway compensation for all the trouble we caused

Those 2 where 2 out of 4 options that was changed to firm orders, so I would be surprised for another top-up order of 2 more in the future


User currently offlineUA777300ER From Belgium, joined Jun 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22409 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 12):
I'm with you on the AF and SQ numbers but I think you may have missed a couple of EK announcements. (Perhaps leases?) They have a total of 98 in service, on order or to be leased.

I was aware of that, that's why I mentioned 'on order with Boeing'. Thanks for giving the total number.

It is indeed impressive, especially when you consider that there are 42 (?) A380's coming, as well as an A350/B787 order (which some people claim will be for 100 airframes). I have to say that I have no idea what they're going to do with all that capacity. But hopefully, they do...


User currently offlineAF Cabin Crew From French Polynesia, joined Sep 1999, 1038 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22409 times:

Ia Orana all !

Heard that 2/3 of the A320s will replace older models and the other third is to increase the fleet. The 13 777s are going to replace the 744 fleet.

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew



Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22344 times:

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 17):
The 13 777s are going to replace the 744 fleet.

what shame Sad no more AF744's...I was hoping they'd go for the 748 at least



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22344 times:

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 14):
Snecma has a significant stake in the GE90 (almost 25%) and 50% of the CFM-56

But, interestingly, no comparable stake in the GEnx...

Quoting UA777300ER (Reply 16):
when you consider that there are 42 (?) A380's coming

47 at the last count with rumours of more to come soon!


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22120 times:

What makes me wonder is:
1) AF/KL record profits of EUR 1.25 bln
2) They call this profit "disappointing" and will launch a cost cutting plan of EUR 1.4 bln (Goodbye KLM brand in 2 years? It's beginning to look like it unfortunately IMHO)
3) AF places large EUR7bln order
4) KLM announces it will hold on to its Fokkers and MD11's for a while.

My point: While AF is shaping up to have a very young fleet, with the old a320's and 744's leaving the fleet, while KLM only has a few aircraft on order, but no immediate plans to replace their oldest aircraft (733, 734, 744). Why are these airlines being treated differently? Seeing as how the KLM board will comprise more and more of AF people, they have a large say in KLM matters. So my guess this is on purpose. What's going on here? Or am I reading too much into all this?



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21938 times:

Bad surprise in the morning. Sadly this makes it unlikely that the 748I will find its way to AF. Too bad, this order. Anyway, AF has never been an airline for me. Each time I took them in the past, there was a bad surprise.

User currently offlineGoMEA From France, joined Jan 2004, 202 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21886 times:

Too bad!!! I will miss AF's 747's... I discovered them on the CDG-SFO route last summer and got upper deck seating in economy... A true economy + product with the quietness of a first class...

excellent service too on Long Haul, no wonder why they perform so well



MEA raising the Cedar far up in the sky
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21853 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
I wonder how much of a discount Air France got for those two A380s

I wonder how much of a discount they got for those 18 777s... and if all of them would be -300ERs.



All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21833 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 20):
Goodbye KLM brand in 2 years? It's beginning to look like it unfortunately IMHO)

I think KLM CEO (Peter Hartman) this morning stated that both brands will remain for at least five years (i.e. their current planning horizon).


User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21833 times:

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 17):
Heard that 2/3 of the A320s will replace older models

A good number of the older have been delivered to Air France and Air Inter around 19 years ago. I think they must already have a rather high number of cycles.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 18):
what shame no more AF744's...I was hoping they'd go for the 748 at least

Perhaps that AF only wants to keep down the number of aircraft types.

[Edited 2007-05-24 12:06:36]

User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3311 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21711 times:

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 17):
The 13 777s are going to replace the 744 fleet.

So if the 747's are to be replaced, what will they fly to St Maartens? 773ER? Can one of these triple 7 beasts land at St Marteens?



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21568 times:

At the beginning of this year, Air France had 16 passenger B744s in the fleet. Since then, 2 of these aircraft (F-GISA and F-GISB) have been retired from the passenger fleet, with a third one (F-GISC) following later this year. That leaves 13 B744 frames in the active passenger fleet, and they will be replaced by 13 B77Ws ordered today. The other 5 triple seven orders are for the freighther division.

Unlike the B77W in the current AF mainline fleet, which are equipped in a 3-class layout, these additional frames will see a 2-class configuration only as AF will use them to the current high density B744 destinations, including YUL, YYZ, JFK, ATL, MEX, CCS, GIG and DEL. This add on order for more B77Ws had long been expected and has been discussed here many times before.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21499 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
PS: why was this announced before the air show?

Because, despite all the nonsense you get to read on a.net, Airbus will disclose details of a deal even a short time before an airshow if the customer so choses; the customer decides when the details are released - not Airbus.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21393 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 28):

So what will be the total breakdown of 777s in AF's fleet including this latest order?

25 772ERs
10 777Fs
39 773ERs


is this correct?



raggi



Stick & Rudder
25 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : Wow large order but I´ld have expected a larger 380 order ! When will they choose between 350 and 787 ? Still this year ? LH order to come !! Can´t
26 Virgin747LGW : so does anyone know total A320 family sales because i think the airbus site is a little out of date!
27 Kappel : Yes, but if I've counted correctly, the five year term ends in 2008. The cost reduction program runs through 2010. They fly the a343 to St Maarten (o
28 Moo : 5076 to the end of April 2007.
29 HB-IWC : I believe these numbers to be correct. All B772ERs are mainline 3-class configured aircraft (4P, 49J, 211Y), whereas there will be 3 different versio
30 KL577 : Nu.nl is reporting that Hartman stated that the company structure will remain the same (two brands, three activities) in the coming five years from n
31 N328KF : Yes, but if it were a "Go France" thing, they'd be keeping more currency in France by buying from Airbus than by using GE engines with SNECMA as a pa
32 Parapente : Excuse me for being stupid here. But if the A380 were PART of a compensation deal (the rest in cash) it implies that they were GIVEN these planes! Tha
33 OGGFBORefueler : I've noticed that within this order only 2 A380's been ordered, have they placed an order for more or are these 2 just the 2 lone frames? Aloha! Keone
34 Moo : Air France has a current order for 10 frames, this brings it up to 12 total, with 2 outstanding options.
35 Danny : For example cash can be given now while discount on A380s in 3-5 years.
36 Virgin747LGW : thats the number on airbus website which is know is out of date, when will they update it?
37 Post contains images OGGFBORefueler : Thanks Mate! Aloha! Keone
38 NA : First time I hear this. I somehow remember that AF has sold a few 744s a few months ago, but not for delivery this year. Can´t remember who bought t
39 Parapente : Yes but Air France clearly does not need cash looking at its profits whereas Airbus needs it more than anything right now.They would have got a far be
40 Moo : After the end of May, usually somewhere around the 8th depending on when the end of the month falls in relation to weekends. Airbus works on a monthl
41 Raggi : I guess this will make AF the biggest GE90 operator in the world then... Closely followed by EK. raggi
42 HB-IWC : The 2 + 1 B744s that have been/will be withdrawn from the passenger fleet are destined for cargo conversion and will stay with AF as such. F-GISA and
43 Stitch : Good news all around, but with such a large 773ER order designed to replace the 744s, one wonders how this affects the 787-A350 deliberations, as now
44 SunriseValley : My impression has been that AF buy based on what works best for them with no apparent political overtones.
45 HB-IWC : AF/KL still need to replace an almost 30-strong fleet of 19 A343 + 10 MD11, and I would expect a joint order for this replacement, at least these are
46 Parapente : Here is a "what if". A growing number of airlines are bypassing the 7478.More by the day.What if at Paris we hear that BA has ordered say 30 A380's an
47 Post contains images PEET7G : So with this order the 777 count stands at 970 orders minus the 2 cancelled by AC, right? Pretty close to 1000 now. Any bets when they will hit the mi
48 Zvezda : Already 69 777 orders this year. That's amazing. 100 this year seems very possible now.
49 TGV : Let's see this from a passenger point of view (me !). Replacing 320 with 320: indifferent (I am confident AF maintains well its planes, so flying in a
50 EI321 : I think its good, the 777 is more comfortable than the 747*. And they are also replacing 747s with A380s. edit: * assuming the 777 is in 9 abreast.[E
51 UA777300ER : Well, I guess there will always be a (though perhaps limited) demand for an aircraft to fill the gap between the A380 and 777-300ER. Even if none of
52 Post contains links and images FlySSC : The real "news", and quite a surprise, are the 2 additional A380. It seems they are a compensation for delays on the first order. It means also that t
53 RayChuang : I think people forget AF loves the 777 because they can put in more premium seating compared to the A340, something AF really likes. This will allow A
54 Airbazar : It's part of the contract. In fact it's part of every contract. If one side can't deliver on what was promised, a compensation often ensues. Simple a
55 Post contains images PM : Who was it recently (in another thread) arguing that no airline is replacing 744s with 77Ws?
56 Jfk777 : A sad day for teh 744 at Air France since they have operated 747's since 1971, by the time the last one retires it will be almost 40 years. AF loves t
57 EI321 : Correct. Air France say that one of the reasons they ordered the 777 in the first place was its ability to operate in high density configurations.
58 DeltaDC9 : Same with BA I think. I am really getting tired of the anything French bashing. Just went out last night and purchased an awesome French Pinot Noir a
59 Post contains images PM :
60 YULYMX : Question about AF... Are the Crew base in PARIS, or Crew base out of CDG or ORY... Lets say Crew of B773 which operate from ORY and CDG, could they sw
61 Post contains images FlySSC : The same people who systematically answers "AIR FRANCE" when comes back (approximately every two weeks) the eternal topic : "Airlines with the most d
62 Boeing767-300 : The success of the 777 has been amazing over the last three years and it is no wonder Airbus is aiming the A350 at the 777 as much as the 787. Air Fr
63 FlySSC : Crews are based in PARIS. There are some "divisions", based at ORY & CDG : ORY : Domestic ORY : Caribbean/Indian Ocean CDG : Europe / North Africa CD
64 VivaGunners : Any info on how many seats the 2-class 77Ws will have? I guess in the region of 350 seats, what do you think?
65 YULYMX : Thank you very much for your answer
66 FlySSC : AF's A343 need a replacement. As I mentioned above, AF "officially" is studying both the A350 & B787 as a replacement. But it is more likely that the
67 NA : And soon afterwards they need to replace the 772ERs, they´re just a few years younger.
68 DeltaDC9 : Yes, BUT, the 777 market is clearly smaller than the 787 market. It appears that Airbus is aiming right in the middle, which is smart considereing th
69 FlySSC : It should be around 42J/320Y, more or less .
70 BigJKU : I don't get this sort of thinking. The head of BA has clearly gone on record saying they could possibly use around 10 or so A380's. That is it. They
71 United787 : Does anyone else find it interesting that AF is replacing an airplane type with the same airplane type of the same general generation? I understand t
72 FlySSC : First AF A340 : F-GLZB, delivered on Feb. 26 1993. Sold to Air Madrid. "Oldest" AF A340 in service : F-GLZC, delivered on Sept. 30 1993. First AF B77
73 HB-IWC : Given that this B77W order is a specific one for one B744 replacement, I find that highly unlikely to happen. The A332/A343 will remain the workhorse
74 Zvezda : Total orders for C market 777s, through the end of April, are: 777-200LR: 47 777-300ER: 256 777F: 71
75 Someone83 : Isn't there a few 200ER orders also, such as the 4 for BA?
76 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : ...me too..I get the feeling we will eventually no longer see any B747's in AF's fleet after a while, it will be a mix of B77W's and A380's... MyAvia
77 FlySSC : Maybe you are right ... But don't forget that on the COI routes where the 10-abreast seats B77W are used, AF is facing a competition from airlines wh
78 ConcordeBoy : The 773ER is not a C-market aircraft.
79 HB-IWC : I agree with you, and I actually don't think AF will put a 10-abreast in the 2-class B77Ws. However, KL is gearing up for it, despite the 9-abreast c
80 Stitch : The 787-9 would make a very nice A343 replacement, with similar floor space for similar seating densities (plus the advantage of adding an extra seat
81 FlySSC : Note that the 2 A380 are the confirmation of 2 on the 5 options placed by AF in its initial order.
82 Post contains links WINGS : Air France only had 4 options for the A388. Flight International is now reporting that 18 A320's will come from Airbus will the remaining 12 frames w
83 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...Hi Wings... ..congratulations to AF/Airbus on the order....nice to see them taking up their A380 options... ..I expect them to take their remainin
84 FlySSC : Ooops ! typo. Thanks for correcting.
85 FlySSC : Not Exactely. The 30 new A32X will be used to replace 19 of the oldest A320 (including of course the last 13 A320-100 in service). The rest is for AF
86 Flysherwood : A heck of a lot less of a discount than on the A380's. 777-300ER is one of the hottest selling frames right now so there is not a lot of incentive fo
87 Post contains images Flysherwood : Many here on A.net will tell you that Airbus doesn't have any cashflow problems!
88 Tockeyhockey : wasn't AF very critical of the 773 because of its supposed impact on runways being worse than the A380, something to do with how the weight is distrib
89 Flyorski : Actually, even though AF has said that for five years the brands will not change, I think that the KLM brand may slowly die, and it does already seem
90 Manni : Not sure. What routes will the 12 A380s fly Air France ordered? Routes previously operated by 747s perhaps? What was the maximum number of 744 pax ai
91 FlySSC : That was a problem specific at Orly Airport, on one of the 2 main Runways. Work to reinforce some part of that Runway was done at ORY early 2006 befo
92 FlySSC : The B77W has already taken over all the premium routes, mostly operated previously by the B744 : JFK, NRT, PEK, SIN, LAX, etc ... The A380 will take
93 YULWinterSkies : And some are even older as both have been slowly added to the fleet until 2001. I wonder id there is not some fleet growth in this order too : the 77
94 FlyDreamliner : I think they are just really happy with their GE engines... and why wouldn't they be? GE engines are great! AF has CF6's on their 747s, which is befo
95 Stitch : The PR and DJ orders both went out at 42%, so I imagine AF received the same.
96 Post contains images FlySSC : Well, this is 10 B744 on a total long-haul fleet of more than 90 aircraft ... And I know a very famous and praised German airline, of which the name
97 Post contains images FlySSC : You are right. I forgot Lufthansa. But It doesn't make sense to me... And the less we can say is that LH fleet policy is not very clear and not very
98 Ken777 : Congrats to Air France! It's good to see airlines ordering new planes, from either A or B. It's a good indication that airlines are continuing to reco
99 Post contains images FlySSC : Maybe precisely because they want keep the annoucement of the B787 order for the Paris Air Show ! The 4 remaining A343-311 (F-GLZC, F-GLZG, F-GLZH, F
100 Post contains images Flysherwood : They must know what they are doing considering the fact that they are one of the most profitable airline in the world!!!
101 Planetime : JFK,YUL,NRT,LAX are the confirmed ones ... SIN,MIA, are on the consideration list.
102 HB-IWC : No, they are not. The B77Ws will be deployed in KLM's regular triple seven markets, to GRU and DXB to start with, and most likely to YYZ and some oth
103 Glareskin : That is a strange conclusion. First of all growing and profitability of airlines cannot be (only) measured to planes on order. Secondly KL performed
104 HB-IWC : You are right about JFK, YUL and NRT, with SIN being considered lately as well, because of the robust growth on the CDG SIN route and the lack of add
105 FlySSC : All this is pure speculation. Since the begining of the merging process, quite a lot of people here on A.Net keep on saying that AF wants to "kill" K
106 Planetime : Thought LAX would be one of the initial routes..... correct me if I am wrong. Yes MIA is more of the 77W's destination. Makes more sense. Cheers, Pla
107 United Airline : How many A 380s did they order?
108 FlySSC : Initially : 10 firm + 4 Options. Now : 12 firm + 2 Options. You are right. LAX and PEK are planned. Definately not MIA.
109 PlaneHunter : It's simple - the A320 family is still competitive and doesn't need a major update in order to sell. It was Boeing which had to improve the B737 clas
110 N328KF : To be fair, it's now 10 firm + 2 LoI + 2 options.
111 Jimyvr : What's not logical? 300-seater = A340-600 400-seater = B747-8I 500-seater = A380-800 AF is pretty much doing 300-seater = B777-300ER 500-seater = A38
112 OldAeroGuy : It wasn't AF that was critical, it was the airport authority.
113 Planetime : More like 300-380 seater for the 77W the way AF configures them differently.
114 Lan1981 : Hi FlySSC I found the above comment very interesting; from what I understand, as cabin staff with AF you will more or less be assigned into a 'divisi
115 Post contains images Jobalas : Hi LAN1981 I'm AF cabin crew as well and I'm in the America division but we are allowed to fly on all the AF network ( my next flight will be NRT) but
116 FlySSC : The A340-600 is more a 350/380 seater than a 300 seater. LH has 335 seats up to 369 seat in its A346. Actually, we belong to a "division" but we can
117 Scbriml : How do you make that? From the original article:
118 Post contains images Lan1981 : Jobalas & FlySSC thanks very much for your replies, this makes sense now! I've just read AF Cabin Crew's Trip Report from PPT - the service & staff lo
119 Post contains images YULWinterSkies : I totally agree with you, so saying that AF replacing the 744 is a "bad" thing is not a point of view that I share, that was my point. Either they ge
120 TGV : Unfortunately the 380 is aimed at high yielding makets, and will not be deployed on the route where the 744 presently fly, as mentioned by FlySSC. A
121 Iwok : Are these new orders to be announced at the Paris Air Show? Are these for AF/KLM or for other airlines? Or are these EK orders? If these are new orde
122 BOAC911 : quote=KL577,reply=19]I think KLM CEO (Peter Hartman) this morning stated that both brands will remain for at least five years (i.e. their current plan
123 Highflyer9790 : I am actually a little surprised with the A380s...but i wasnt expecting a 747-8. So, congrats, i like the 777 part!
124 Kaitak744 : That is a completely wrong statement. The 747-8 is meant to fill the market gap in between the 777-300ER and the A380. Certain airlines might have 74
125 Sv11 : This order is interesting as there were no 747-8's ordered. But the 747-400s will make fine -BCF. I don't think any -400 have been scrapped yet. sv11
126 Zvezda : The 747-8 competes with both of them. Airlines evaluate them against each other in the context of their route networks, current fuel prices, risk ass
127 Aminobwana : Agreeing with most of your statements, I take exception here: As long as the loaded average of the seats occupied is " 1) more than 400, the B748 doe
128 Zvezda : Both Airbus and Boeing are trying differentiate their products. They would prefer to compete on any basis other than price. This is good marketing. T
129 Aminobwana : very good point !! aminobwana
130 Leskova : Simple - aside from the nonsense you get to read on a.net, Airbus doesn't make the decision when to release the information about a sale, the custome
131 Post contains images LifelinerOne : There are rumours that there won't be a joint order for the A343/MD-11 fleet. According to Hartman, the MD-11's are to stay in the fleet for at least
132 Stitch : If airlines chose solely on capacity, then Boeing would have sold passenger 744s between 2002 and 2006. And they'd be selling them now, with no need
133 HB-IWC : That was the official line, but any insider will tell you differently. Cockpit crew shortages sounded much better for the galleries than continued te
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