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Vladivostok Air Applies ANC/SEA From 2008  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2715 times:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=470379&docketid=28325

Another Russian Far-east carrier is applying for service across the Bering Strait.

Vladivostok Air has applied for permission to operate scheduled service to US from April 1, 2008, as well as charter service from any point(s) from Russia to any point(s) in US.

The Points from Russia it'll serve: Vladivostok (main base), Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk and in US: Anchorage and Seattle.

Routing and projected schedule will be:
(Day 1/2)
VVO1130 - 1630PKC1830 - 0120ANC0240 - 0640SEA
SEA0840 - 1100ANC1220 - 1500*PKC1700* - 1810*VVO

(Day 4/5)
VVO1130 - 1330UUS1520 - 0120ANC0240 - 0640SEA
SEA0840 - 1100ANC1220 - 1420*UUS1620* - 1810*VVO

Flights will be 1 weekly each, using C8Y134 configuration onboard Tu-204. The airline may be using A320 as substitution. Projection of traveller on this flight annually is around 17000.

Looks like Dalavia is not operating such flight this year as originally planned?

[Edited 2007-05-24 18:50:36]

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2695 times:

It is good to see service coming back between the United States and Russia's Pacific Coast. Its a thin route, but this flight would save a lot of time since current transits go through Asia.

It would be amazing to see at Tu-204 in SEA. That plane doesn't fly to the United States, so it would be a treat for anyone to see it. I hope they get approved to fly to the US although their service is nothing like what AS once had when they flew to Russia in the 90s with MD80s.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2681 times:

Fantastic! I would think with the growing oil business that ties between the USA and Russian Far East would start to slowly grow. Too bad they can't carry local traffic between SEA and ANC - that plane would be full of A.netters wanting the chance to fly on a Tu-204!  Smile

Any chance AS might return?


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2660 times:

I would assume that the FAA and DOT aren't going to allow the Tu-204 to fly people out of the US so I'm sure it'll be an A320 or a similar airplane.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2620 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 3):
I would assume that the FAA and DOT aren't going to allow the Tu-204 to fly people out of the US so I'm sure it'll be an A320 or a similar airplane.

What makes you say that? They've allowed other Russian jets into the United States.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSIBILLE From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 483 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 2545 times:

Seems Vladivostok Avia is happy with their Tu-204-300! It's a new modern aircraft.
Read that link from Vladivostok Avia wabsite.
http://vladivostokavia.ru/en/press-c...e/press_releases/2007-05-10-00396/


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 2519 times:

I read the full application and it appears that Vlad Avia is projecting only 30 pax per flight. I think this means that cargo will be the money maker.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 3):

Why not?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 5):
Seems Vladivostok Avia is happy with their Tu-204-300! It's a new modern aircraft.

It does seem like they are heavily promoting it. If the plane can do Vladivostok-Moscow/St. Petersburg nonstop, then it could probably also do Petropavlosk-Seattle nonstop. I think making that route nonstop and avoiding an ANC stop might be appealing. But this is a low frequency and low demand route to begin with. I didn't realize that the Tu-204-300 has about the same range as the 757-200 since the original Tu-204s severly lacked range.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Sweet!
I hope I get to see their Tu-204s in Anchorage... that would be a real treat.
Why do I have to wait a year???

At least don't send the A320 though, that's as boring as the droves of AS 737s that come and go all day. Not worth taking the camera out of my pocket for.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):

Alaska has a very large Russian population and the oil connection. I don't know if they'd want to avoid ANC.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

If Cargo is the main draw I don't see the point of continuing on to Seattle. You'd think both Cargo and Passengers could transit through ANC.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 11):
If Cargo is the main draw I don't see the point of continuing on to Seattle. You'd think both Cargo and Passengers could transit through ANC.

Very true. I could see them making a marketing agreement with AS to connect passengers to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, LAS and ORD nonstop. The SEA continuation would be for passengers to connect to other airlines.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5716 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 3):


I would assume that the FAA and DOT aren't going to allow the Tu-204 to fly people out of the US so I'm sure it'll be an A320 or a similar airplane.

Why on earth not? Russia is a member in good standing of ICAO, provided VVO Air has jumped thru all the Russian hoops and they have AFAIK, the USA is bound by treaty to allow the aircraft to operate to/from the US, unless it has reason to believe that international standards are not being adhered to. This does not apply to traffic rights, of course, which are not covered by the treaty.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 3):
I would assume that the FAA and DOT aren't going to allow the Tu-204 to fly people out of the US so I'm sure it'll be an A320 or a similar airplane.

Why not? the plane is certified, the US is bound by treaty to allow it. Russian planes are perfectly safe, as long as maintenence and inspections are complied with the planes are airworthy here and in Russia.


User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

I'll believe it when I see it. It would be nice, though.

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):

Looks like Dalavia is not operating such flight this year as originally planned?

Nope, no Dalavia. Rumor has it that either Aeroflot or Vladivostok Air (can't remember which) squashed Dalavia's plans due to a spat over traffic rights. ANC-Russia hasn't been flown on a regular basis since Magadan Air pulled out after 2004 (The Russia Jet Direct service barely lasted a month, if my memory is correct, so I'm not counting that).

Ironically enough, the most logical carrier, in my opinion, to do ANC-Russia is still AS. It's too bad AS doesn't want to give it another go.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5716 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting Chugach (Reply 15):
Ironically enough, the most logical carrier, in my opinion, to do ANC-Russia is still AS. It's too bad AS doesn't want to give it another go.

Now that is a good question! Why do you think AS is the most logical carrier?

I think that a Russian carrier based in the Russian Far East(RFE), such as VVO Air, is much more logical. Why? Because the routes in question are very definately "development" routes, ie they have much potential, but will require a lot of development, which includes development in a general trade sense between the two regions. An airline based in the developing region has much more incentive to develop the routes than an airline from the developed region.

Lets face it, as a US domestic carrier AS has total access to a region much, much, much more developed than any Russian airline has total access to. As a US international airline it has access, if it wants it, to a much wider range of international destinations than any Russian airline. As a result AS is logically much less interested in the RFE than an airline based there.

You see the same thing in the South Pacific. The only US airlines are UA to SYD & MEL from LAX/SFO and HA from HNL, that's it! (Excepting the HA PPG service, but thats US domestic). Airlines from the area have much more invested in these services. QF serves LAX/SFO/JFK/YVR/HNL from SYD/MEL/AKL/BNE, NZ serves LAX/SFO/YVR(soon)/HNL from AKL, FJ LAX/HNL from NAN, TN serves LAX/JFK from PPT. The US airlines have more profitable areas to play in.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
Now that is a good question! Why do you think AS is the most logical carrier?

I think that a Russian carrier based in the Russian Far East(RFE), such as VVO Air, is much more logical. Why? Because the routes in question are very definately "development" routes, ie they have much potential, but will require a lot of development, which includes development in a general trade sense between the two regions. An airline based in the developing region has much more incentive to develop the routes than an airline from the developed region.

While a good point, I disagree here. The majority of ANC-Russia traffic is going to be Americans, be they tourists or oil workers. I don't mean any disrespect to the Russian carrier in this instance, but AS has access to a far greater systemwide route network on the USA side, and would benefit from "home-town" advertising and brand recognition, so to speak.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5716 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Quoting Chugach (Reply 17):
While a good point, I disagree here. The majority of ANC-Russia traffic is going to be Americans, be they tourists or oil workers. I don't mean any disrespect to the Russian carrier in this instance, but AS has access to a far greater systemwide route network on the USA side, and would benefit from "home-town" advertising and brand recognition, so to speak.

Also a good point! But I don't think you are necessarily correct about most of the traffic being Americans. Using the South Pacific analogy again, there are more Ozzies/Kiwi/Islanders on trans pacific flights than Americans, even though you out number us 10 to 1. I would think that the people seeking business development would be more likely to travel than the other side, also the local carrier would have the better network for reaching development site, which would be where a lot of traffic would be to.

Still it all conjecture at this point. Maybe that part of the reason for extending from ANC to SEA is to give better connections to other markets without being dependant on AS?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13650 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1781 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
Any chance AS might return?

Doubtful. AS is already short on aircraft as it is, and new deliveries of 738s are replacing MD80s leaving the fleet - all of which will be gone by December 2008.

738s taken up beyond that time will have better revenue possibilities 'connecting the dots' between existing AS markets as well as new destinations that don't involve Russia.

Russia just isn't the best use of an aircraft in the foreseeable future.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

I'd LOVE to see TU-204s in the US.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
An airline based in the developing region has much more incentive to develop the routes than an airline from the developed region.

Really? If this was true, Air France would not fly to all those Sub-Saharan destinations, nor would SN Brussels. Or Iberia to some of the less developed South American countries.

I think your theory doesn't hold.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
The only US airlines are UA to SYD & MEL from LAX/SFO and HA from HNL, that's it!

Err, right... so what you try to say is that Australia is a "developing" region? Not sure the Australians would agree.


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