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MSY To Lose A Few Flights  
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6520 posts, RR: 51
Posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

In September United is canceling one LAX flight and one DEN flight. Very sad to see that, especially LAX.

And then I see AA is canceling the MSY-LGA nonstop shortly. Very sad to see that also, now we'll just have one nonstop to LGA.

So even though the airport has seen recent growth from XE (who's load factors have been decent so far from here, some cities better than others obviously), it is still not seeing consistent growth from all carriers. NW is cutting a DTW flight in a few days, which will be offset by US adding another PHL flight. A lot of the new flights added here are seasonal in nature, like the 3rd United IAD flight and now the 3rd DEN flight it seems, which was always operated year-round before Katrina, but not anymore.

The airport can never really get ahead it seems. Every time a new flight is announced, one is almost always cut, but those cuts rarely make it to the newspapers.

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Keep in mind too that this is the slowest season of the year for this market, so no real shock we'd see downgrades and cuts

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
The airport can never really get ahead it seems.

...nor can the city.
New Orleans (and to a greater extent, S.Louisiana) always loses at everything... you're perhaps the only person here who'd be even more familiar than me with this area's general motto: "Hey, remember back when we had * ?"






*insert: multiple Fortune 500s, a chance to be the home of Delta and Disney, scheduled intercontinental flights, any international service at all, net-growth in population, etc


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Are there any international flights at MSY anymore?

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
Are there any international flights at MSY anymore?

MSY has in its past enjoyed 26 scheduled international nonstops (6 of them intercontinental nonstops)... and now we currently have none.

The last two were Toronto, Canada and San Pedro Sula, Honduras. Neither have returned since the storm.


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6520 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):
Keep in mind too that this is the slowest season of the year for this market, so no real shock we'd see downgrades and cut

Oh I know. But historically DEN has always been 3x daily and LAX has been 2x daily year round for several years at least. I just don't buy the fact that those flights are getting cut due to lack of demand. DEN and LAX nonstops are always full from here, and I don't see how the yields can be that bad when both markets no longer have LCC nonstop competition.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):
New Orleans (and to a greater extent, S.Louisiana) always loses at everything... you're perhaps the only person here who'd be even more familiar than me with this area's general motto: "Hey, remember back when we had * ?"

Dude, it's downright depressing to think back, just a few years ago even, to all that we had going for us. The oil bust killed this area in the late 70's/early 80's and Katrina killed us in 2005. Nothing will ever be the same here again since that damn hurricane.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

In August of 1989 I flew Aviateca from New Orleans to Guatemala City on a 727-200. I recall a number of Central American Airlines had flights to New Orleans. I read recently that WN is looking to increase flights.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
The oil bust killed this area in the late 70's/early 80's

Stifled, but at least the chance was there for innovation and reinvention. Of course MSY didn't take it, but at least GPT and MOB learned.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
and Katrina killed us in 2005.

...so it's seeming

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 5):
I recall a number of Central American Airlines had flights to New Orleans.

Keep in mind that before dereg, MSY eclipsed even MIA as the gateway to LatAm in both sea and air. While the former still remains, it's been one sad-ass drop from the #1 slot to not even having a single friggin' scheduled flight.

The Aviateca, LACSA, TACA, SAHSA/TAN, AeroMexico, and numerous other Latin names/icons have long since been taken down from this airport's foyers.

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Quoting DesertAir (Reply 5):
I read recently that WN is looking to increase flights.

Oh whoopeeeeeee, more HOU, hurray  Yeah sure


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6752 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

Flying into MSY yesterday on US, It was kinda sad to see so much inactivity at the airport. At the time I arrived, the only airliners at the terminals were the US 737 I arrived on, a CO 737, 1 AA MD80, and 2 ExpressJet RJ... otherwise the apron looked like a ghost town..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePExDCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
Nothing will ever be the same here again since that damn hurricane.

I think the media is part of the problem, and I don't really know what the solution is, but all the TV Newsmagazines and talk shows seem to love to do reports on serious crime in N.O. how much recovery is left to occur in N.O. since Katrina, and I hope that those shows help get the national attention necessary to accelerate the rebuilding because I think that those TV news stories create a perception of N.O. that, for now at least, is one of a city that is filled with crime and not a vacation destination or desirable convention/meeting site. It's not the reality, but it is the perception that has been created and it is potentially more damaging than the hurricane itself. The trickle down, of course, is the impact on service at MSY.



"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong." - Tecumseh
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

Quoting PExDCA (Reply 8):
I think the media is part of the problem

Agreed

Quoting PExDCA (Reply 8):
I think that those TV news stories create a perception of N.O. that, for now at least, is one of a city that is filled with crime and not a vacation destination or desirable convention/meeting site.

You couldn't possibly be more correct

Quoting PExDCA (Reply 8):
It's not the reality, but it is the perception that has been created and it is potentially more damaging than the hurricane itself.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 731 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
So even though the airport has seen recent growth from XE (who's load factors have been decent so far from here, some cities better than others obviously), it is still not seeing consistent growth from all carriers.

What is XE flying out of MSY?

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
In September United is canceling one LAX flight and one DEN flight.

Talk may be cheap but a few people are talking on the West Coast about SFO-MSY.

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
And then I see AA is canceling the MSY-LGA nonstop shortly.

This should not come as a suprise. In the near future when MSY gets back on its feet, yes it will happen you will see anumber of flights added to MSY. AA, is rightsizing its equipment, and routes. MSY-LGA is not exactly a bread winner for AA and the demand would lead me to believe the route would have been best served with an ERJ. However, AA is in the game to make money and running a MD80 on a route that performs marginally well does not make sense when the aircraft can be redeployed elsewhere. Afterall the route commands one-way fares as low as $129.00!

-JD


User currently offlinePExDCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
And then I see AA is canceling the MSY-LGA nonstop shortly.

This should not come as a suprise. In the near future when MSY gets back on its feet, yes it will happen you will see anumber of flights added to MSY.

There is a sad Catch-22 at play here. When I was working in NYC, my first-hand experience was that the LGA-MSY flight catered heavily to meeting and convention attendees traveling to N.O. As you say in your post (above) "when MSY gets back on its feet...you will see a number of flights added to MSY." but unfortunately, the elimination of flights like LGA-MSY will make it much tougher for N.O. to attract the conventions, meetings and tourists necessary to help it get "back on its feet". I can see a temporary downsizing of equipment on a route if the demand is just not there, but the outright elimination of it is significantly more damaging to N.O., its economy and recovery.



"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong." - Tecumseh
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Odd that LGA has struggled so much (lost two carriers since the storm, DL is the only one left)... whereas EWR is actually doing more capacity than pre-K, and JFK (while down one flight) appears to be doing just fine as well.

User currently offlinePExDCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
Odd that LGA has struggled so much (lost two carriers since the storm, DL is the only one left)... whereas EWR is actually doing more capacity than pre-K, and JFK (while down one flight) appears to be doing just fine as well.

OK, don't shoot me, but here's a theory... EWR and JFK are Int'l airports whereas LGA is not. As I said in a previous posting, I think the media has some negative impact on the N.O. recovery issue, so perhaps the foreign media is much less focused on the "ongoing issues" facing N.O. and therefore the connecting Int'l traffic thru EWR and JFK is impacted less and is helping those services to MSY while the LGA service traffic is all domestic and more strongly influenced by U.S. media reports.


Now y'all just give me a minute to put on my bulletproof vest and you can start shooting at me!  duck 



"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong." - Tecumseh
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

Quoting PExDCA (Reply 14):
Now y'all just give me a minute to put on my bulletproof vest and you can start shooting at me!

Why would we? ...you're probably 100% correct.

The NOCVB reports that measurable traffic from the UK and Germany to MSY (both scheduled and charter, connecting and nonstop) was actually higher in the first full year post-K than it was in 2004


User currently offlinePExDCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 15):
Why would we? ...you're probably 100% correct.

I guess I am just a bit gun shy in general. (Definitely not directed at you CB - in general, the N.O. crowd on A.net is among the most friendly.)  Smile

Seems like lately anyone posting something that is theory based or opinion has a posse chasing him as soon as he hits the "Post Message!" button.



"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong." - Tecumseh
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting PExDCA (Reply 16):
the N.O. crowd on A.net is among the most friendly

...we also used to trounce the PDX, MFW, NYC, QLA, and STL crowds; COMBINED; when it comes to hometown glossing.

No more.  Sad


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

I've said this before, but MSY is also a victim of the move by most of the legacy airlines to reduce domestic traffic. Almost all of the legacies are reducing domestic capacity (or holding it steady). The one legacy that is signficantly increasing domestic ASM's is CO and not surprisingly they are the one carrier that has come back full throttle at MSY. So until the legacy carriers really start adding domestic capacity systemwide, I have a feeling that MSY is going to have a tough time gaining capacity.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 18):
and not surprisingly they are the one carrier that has come back full throttle at MSY.

...AA might disagree.
Granted CO is the only airline to offer MORE capacity than before the storm, AA has alternated between 91-96% pre-K capacity restoration since this year began-- most of which is just a result of seesawing mainline and RJs.


User currently offlineSKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Oldies but goodies....

LACSA:
MSY-CUN-SAP-TGU-SJO (73S) (1997)

TACA:
MSY- BZE - SAL (73S) (1994)

MSY- Roatan (RTB) - La Ceiba (LCE) - SAL (73S) (1995)

MSY- SAP- SAL

AeroMexico:
MSY-CUN-MEX (D9S)

TWA:
MSY-MEX (M80)

SAHSA:
MSY-BZE-SAP-TGU (732) (1993)


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 20):
LACSA:
MSY-CUN-SAP-TGU-SJO (73S) (1997)

This flight eventually knocked out the SAP/TGU and went straight from CUN to SJO

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 20):
AeroMexico:
MSY-CUN-MEX (D9S)

Originally MSY-CUN and MSY-MEX, joined together in the late 90s
There was also a nonstop New Orleans - Merida, for a short time

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 20):
TWA:
MSY-MEX (M80)

this was a direct from JFK, also opped with a 72S

...also keep in mind the LatAm nonstop service from MSY by DL, CO, et al.


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Remember back when???

Delta L1011
PanAm 727
National DC10
Delta 767
Delta MD90
United 727

Remember back when???

The Ramp was Chock Full of classic jets swarming all over the place?

 Sad


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22):
Remember back when???

...of course, that's Louisiana's State Anthem


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8892 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

LAX cut doesn't totally surprise me since Delta is now serving the market non-stop, which is a relatively new market for them. Can't remember if Southwest served MSY-LAX before Katrina, but with Delta adding a 737-800 on this route, it might not be a surprise if UA cut a LAX frequency (unless of course, WN was on the route, which then it might be more of a surprise).

25 Tom in NO : It's just one of a number of viscious cycles around here post-K.....fewer flights mean fewer oppportunities for people to visit NO. Hence convention
26 Post contains links and images PExDCA : Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 25): I think the media conveniently forgets that the VAST majority of the tourist attractions here were hardly damaged, and t
27 ConcordeBoy : Not really They did, as well as SAN and OAK on the west coast...
28 LambertMan : Speaking of the seesawing, STL-MSY supposedly took a huge hit in traffic, correct? I remember it was operated with two daily mainline before Katrina
29 SKYYBLUE : I remember a daily 727-200 flight in the 90s... LAX-MSY-TPA
30 NASBWI : Perhaps to LGA; MSY will see one more additional JFK nonstop from B6 in a few months. Word around the street is that B6 will introduce 3 daily nonsto
31 Laxintl : To show how New Orleans still gets negative press even within the travel industry. A few weeks back I was reading a major convention travel journal wi
32 FreequentFlier : I think you guys are panicing a little too much. September is hurricane season and airlines have downgauged or reduced capacity accordingly. You'll mo
33 Tom in NO : Hurricane season's got nothing to do with it. Our traditional "busy season" is from Thanksgiving through JazzFest. The summer and early fall months a
34 ConcordeBoy : True... though I have noticed a heavy decrease in the crime (which is higher per capita, but nothing really all that different from pre-K overall) ob
35 Post contains images Tom in NO : The "Vomit Comet" charters are starting back today.....looks like two AeroMexico 737's headed this way ready to be packed with high-schoolers ready to
36 ConcordeBoy : I'm not familiar with these at all... what's their schedule and its duration like??
37 Tom in NO : .....the same summer-time charters we've had for the past few years. Usually three or four per week, operated by Miami Air, Falcon Air, or in today's
38 TVNWZ : Right. shoot the messenger. I've been to NO. Loved the town back in the day and scheduled a couple of meetings there. Was there just last week. Not t
39 MD80Nut : As someone who loves New Orleans it's depressing to me to see the city in this situation. My last visit was in March of '05. My friends with relatives
40 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : indeed, that leaves you with a vast and varied spectrum of insight into the reality of the situation-- far surpassing that of those who experience it
41 TVNWZ : Not at all. but, I am the guy you have to convince that it would be a good idea to bring a three day meeting of about 50 managers there. You might al
42 Nosedive : I think the problem is that you've already made up your mind, subconsciously, before you got there. While I haven't been down to Nawlins since I was
43 Post contains images PExDCA : I have been to N.O. too. And I would say that you are spot off... as for the media, they are not the cause for the struggles that N.O. faces, the hur
44 Post contains images TVNWZ : Actually, no. I am having a meeting there in October. Pullezze. Not that ratings cliche. You can do better than that one. When the city officials are
45 Post contains images Bmacleod : Still no word from AC on restarting YYZ-MSY; they seem content codesharing with UA. E175s would be nice if they could squeeze a few in.
46 N844AA : I'm not familiar with these sagas, nor was I able to find any information about them in a quick Internet search. Could you elaborate a little? I assu
47 ElmoTheHobo : While at work a few days ago, Radio Tropical had a woman on talking about "her airline" offering twice weekly charter service from MSY to San Pedro S
48 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ..."the same things"? Cite some please. Some moron was on here claiming to have insider info that AC was planning to restart YYZ-MSY and also launch
49 N844AA : Heh, never knew that -- amazing the things I learn from this board. Thanks!
50 MSYtristar : My signature pretty much sums up everything down here. Take a look at it. Perception is an amazing thing...it can make or break you. In the case of NO
51 FlyPNS1 : While I think the media does focus too much on the negatives in NO, the reality is that much of what the media is showing existed long before Katrina
52 777gk : ...an asshole mayor and a corrupt local political machine. End of story. Nagin should have been long gone in 2006 and somehow he's still in office. H
53 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : *refer to the following statement and response* Well, to the above-- I'm just waiting for someone to say "well, they wouldn't shoot at us in New York
54 Post contains images PExDCA : My thoughts exactly... thanks for expressing them so clearly! This is part of the reason I added you to my respected list! PEx
55 TVNWZ : See reply #38 I have business interests there. I talked to city officials. They went on and on about how bad the crime was, how slow the recovery was
56 ConcordeBoy : I've seen it, and it does absolutely nothing to answer-- or even directly address, what I asked you. Try again.
57 Post contains links Max999 : I don't think you can blame the media for creating a false preception because the fact is that New Orleans has historically been and is still is a hi
58 ConcordeBoy : Did you miss the last few threads?? ...no one is denying that, what's different is that the city's murder rate was never a continual topic brought up
59 PExDCA : Nobody has ever said that N.O. was ever a "low crime" city, however, as ConcordeBoy said in Reply 53, it is "just that each and every such instance w
60 Max999 : I agree with you that those shark attack media reports in 2001 were out of hand. It was a feeding frenzy (no pun intended) by the media to create as
61 MSYtristar : I'm just curious here...why do you think it's newsworthy? It's not like people coming to conventions here or for business or leisure get killed while
62 PExDCA : True, but the volume of it has been disproportionate to other cities with high/above average crime rates! That is the point here. Nobody is suggestin
63 ConcordeBoy : ...but as what, a major metro with an airport offering service nearly all large and most medium sized cities in North America (as it was in the 50s-9
64 PExDCA : Not an entirely fair question since my crystal ball is in the shop. I know that I would like to see a return to the golden days of air service and pr
65 Kraw : I had the "pleasure" of visiting NOLA last weekend. All I can say is wow! It hasn't changed a bit since I left after Katrina I also see that the airpo
66 ConcordeBoy : ...what's that supposed to mean?
67 MSYtristar : There have been more improvements made (or are in the process of being made) at this airport under the interim leadership of Sean Hunter than there h
68 ConcordeBoy : ...for my own edification, such as what?
69 Post contains links MSYtristar : Well, take this for example... http://www.flymsy.com/Press_Releases/2006/Music%20to%20Your%20Eyes.pdf No one can deny that the folks in charge of the
70 ConcordeBoy : ...I'd prefer MIA's approach: a dump with a nonstop to practically everywhere in the western hemisphere; rather than a squeaky clean facility that no
71 MSYtristar : I second that. Believe me, I second that. We had our chance man....we blew it. MIA (and ATL, MCO, etc.) better thanks its lucky starts for Louisiana'
72 Bjg231 : Don't blame us, we didn't vote for him. Houston, Atlanta, and Chicago did. I was living in Houston post-Katrina, and they had two billboards for Nagi
73 ConcordeBoy : ...you're forgetting the "H" word Yeah, that too. Count the number of votes from Louisiana-residing NO citizens, and he would've lost handily; count
74 Kraw : Nagin's a good man, I would gladly vote for him again
75 ConcordeBoy : I'm sure he is... but he also has a demonstrable lack of leadership ability when under pressure, something that is unacceptable for this area in this
76 WorldTraveler : IIRC, DL started LGA-MSY on a CR7 post-Katrina and AA jumped in w/ an MD80. AA's pulling out and DL remains w/ an E170. There's something about DL's l
77 ConcordeBoy : While I'd always root for DL over UA in any given situation.... the history of UA in that particular market renders this conclusion rather anecdotal.
78 Post contains images WorldTraveler : agree...as they have also done in LAX-FLA markets. but UA will have its hands full trying to fend off DL.... and they only have so many 744s they can
79 LHPDX : I'm really sorry that MSY is losing flights....However, you can't blame one guy for the demise of your present air service..Katrina was a big factor,
80 Kraw : no, because I like the guy.
81 ConcordeBoy : As a person, that'd be understandable.... but as a politician, what is there to like? He's been nothing but a liability since that acursed storm.
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