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WN To Canada, Caribbean & Mexico (Plan)  
User currently offlineLH498 From Germany, joined May 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8434 times:

Hi, everybody!!

Searching the web, I've found this article in the Star-Telegram saying that Southwest Airlines could start international flights to Mexico, Canada & the Caribbean by 2009. However before flying with their own planes, they want to have code-shared flights with ATA. It was announced by Gary Kelly at the annual shareholders meeting May 16th.
Perhaps some insiders have more concrete information, as the article is quite vague and Southwest's site has nothing related.

Sounds interesting, so I thought this is a good subject for my first thread.



http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/104001.html



Did a search, but found no similar threads.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

For long time it has been said that WN model would not allow international flights.
However, VivaAerobus, a Mexican LCC following Ryanair model, is planning to grow its network to include cities in US.
So, if VIV can do it, why not WN?

PZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

This has been rumored for a while. I'll believe it when I see it.

User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8296 times:

I must say I wouldn't be suprised. There's a lot of money to be made in the Caribbean- a region that has expanded economically over the past decade at a very rapid pace. Lots of potential for P2P flying with the 737s.

I reckon WN will start with the nearest islands- Virgin Is and Dominican Rep. (Hispaniola) before they look to the eastern and southern Caribbean.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5432 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8238 times:

Somebody authoritative (I forget who it was) said WN's computer system upgrade to support international flights will be running in 2009.

Kelly talks about codesharing, but I think that is a canard. There is no money to be made in codesharing.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8225 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):
I reckon WN will start with the nearest islands- Virgin Is and Dominican Rep. (Hispaniola) before they look to the eastern and southern Caribbean.

I'd bet they would enter Nassau before any other int'l (Caribbean) destination  biggrin   twocents 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

SJU, STX and STT are considered "domestic". If WN are not equipped for overwater segments, the only routes that could be viable for WN without great detours would be between SJU/STX/STT and Florida/Louisiana/Texas.
As it has been discussed before, given the WN quick turn around model, the international airports most likely to see WN flights might be those with U.S. F.I.S.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 1):
For long time it has been said that WN model would not allow international flights.

I don't think that the issue is WN's model not being able to work for international flights. Rather, they have had enough profitable opportunities within the U.S. domestic market (and even more to the point, the 48 contiguous states) that there has been no need to expand the business internationally yet.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8113 times:

Canada, perhaps - the pre-clearance thing could be done effectively enough to allow for the short turn-around times that WN relies on.

Mexico, remotely possible. I would imagine they might try Monterrey - San Antonio first, to test the business market. Cancun would require ETOPS certification for most routes, and I don't imagine they would be too anxious to compete with carriers to resort locations like PVR.

The Caribbean, however, probably would not be. Locations here are classified as either VFR or vacation destinations. VFR flights are notorious for the copious amounts of cargo, and vacation destinations are very low yield - plus AA has a pretty good lock on trans-Caribbean travel and shares with several airlines lucrative Caribbean routes. I think Southwest would need a bigger plane for any route here.

My two cents.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8082 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 5):
I'd bet they would enter Nassau before any other int'l (Caribbean) destination

pardon my ignorance but what are WN's hubs?? Where would they fly from to NAS???

P.s- we should report this to CTAC 15!!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
Somebody authoritative (I forget who it was) said WN's computer system upgrade to support international flights will be running in 2009.

This has been confirmed by WN in several shareholders meetings. The upgraded computer system that will come online in 2009 will support international currency and other items necessary to fly abroad.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 6):
If WN are not equipped for overwater segments,

WN recently installed life vests and life rafts in their entire fleet of 733, 735, 73G. This allows them to take more direct routings from Florida-North East, and across the Gulf. I can't remember the exact clearance, but I believe they can fly 40 nm away from the coast? OPNL?

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Cancun would require ETOPS certification for most routes

There are no ETOPS zones in the Gulf of Mexico. WN might need additional over-water equippment, but that is different than ETOPS. WN wouldn't introduce an ETOPS subfleet unless they began flying to Hawaii with their own metal.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8060 times:

In Mexico they would probably go for the hot spots; Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Ixtapa, Mazatlan, Cancun, Cozumel and cities like MTY and GDL.

User currently offlineNKMCO From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
WN recently installed life vests and life rafts

No life rafts, only vests.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6530 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

ATA used to serve SJU, but was eliminated in their restructuring. I wonder if either Southwest or ATA will reconsider SJU.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7895 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
WN recently installed life vests and life rafts in their entire fleet of 733, 735, 73G. This allows them to take more direct routings from Florida-North East, and across the Gulf. I can't remember the exact clearance, but I believe they can fly 40 nm away from the coast? OPNL?

It was lifeVESTS, and they allow us to go as far as 162nm from the nearest shoreline (and there are plenty of those in the Caribbean). If we want/need to go further out than 162nm, then we also have to have lifeRAFTS.

There's a fake press release that had been circulating around the internet for the last few years from a major raft manufacturer, saying that we've placed an order. The raft company spokesman's name is Rowan Anaprain, and that name should be the tip-off... (Rowing and a' praying...)


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):



Quoting NKMCO (Reply 12):

Corrections appreciated. I find it somewhat ironic that the FAA calculates the safety margin to three significant digits. What exactly gave them the confidence to certify to 162 nm, but not 165, or 170 nm?


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
Corrections appreciated. I find it somewhat ironic that the FAA calculates the safety margin to three significant digits. What exactly gave them the confidence to certify to 162 nm, but not 165, or 170 nm?

If memory serves, the original National Airlines (NAL) wanted to be able to use one of the AR (Atlantic Routes) from Florida to DC/NYC, and they sought (and got) an FAR exemption for 162nm since that was the furthest distance from a shoreline for that particular AR.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7824 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 9):
pardon my ignorance but what are WN's hubs?? Where would they fly from to NAS???

The Caribbean flights could be flown from MCO and BWI, while Mexico and Canada could be from anywhere WN flies. They really don't fly hub-and-spoke, but their biggest connection centers are MDW, BWI, PHX, LAS, OAK, HOU, DAL, and MCO.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

WN is basically doing what WS has done. They probably figured it was a safe move if another LCC, like WS, could make a profit on trans-border flights within North America.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7675 times:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/busin..._to_add_international_service.html

(Extract)...
In a few years, Southwest Airlines could make Philadelphia International Airport a key connecting point for a type of customer it doesn't have now - travelers headed to Europe, its chief executive officer says.
But Gary C. Kelly, in an interview here yesterday, said Southwest had a more immediate need: the four additional gates in the airport's Terminal E that it has been promised, so it can add domestic flights........


User currently offlineAvionAzul From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7640 times:

Expect to see WN flying to SJU from places such as MCO in the near future....

User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7622 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
This has been rumored for a while. I'll believe it when I see it.

Ditto that. This thread pops up every so often. While WN has gotten away from it's old business model in the past few years, I'm not holding my breath on this one.


User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 17):
but their biggest connection centers are MDW, BWI, PHX, LAS, OAK, HOU, DAL, and MCO.

Flying international is great from all of those cities except DAL. In the agreement of the New Wright any international traffic would have to fly to DFW. So will we see WN flying in DFW in the near term? ATA flies to DFW maybe they will fly the routes out of DFW, I wouldn't mind seeing some WN jets flying south of the Border though.

AirStatDFW


User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7339 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
This has been rumored for a while. I'll believe it when I see it.

Well you would be surprised what you can see


User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 17):
pardon my ignorance but what are WN's hubs?? Where would they fly from to NAS???

Well with the range of the 73G you could fly from OAK to NAS but HOU, MCO, FLL, BWI, MDW, BNA, ISP, PHL are all possibilities


25 RayChuang : I do see WN flying to YUL, YYZ, and YVR by 2009, but only after PVD, ISP, MDW, BWI and OAK airports gets US Federal Inspection Service facilities gear
26 1337Delta764 : I am not too sure about from MCO. MCO-SJU is currently served by four airlines: Ameican, Delta, JetBlue, and Spirit. Maybe TPA-SJU may work out bette
27 Transair737 : Bring it on I would LUV to see them in Canada!!
28 Post contains images RJdxer : FIS facilities, and their employees, are geared for FIS and their employees. What airline happens to be coming through there is of no concern. Nor sh
29 SSTsomeday : WN to Canada cannot happen soon enough. I'm tired of seeing even advance purchase fares to Canada 100% or more higher than domestic U.S. fares of simi
30 OPNLguy : ..driven by people having seen a Southwest 737-700 in HNL. An aircraft destined to Southwest but not yet delivered by Boeing was briefly used by Aloh
31 USPIT10L : I suspected as much, but I was merely listing WN's top connecting stations, since they don't officially have "hubs." You could also add DEN and SEA t
32 Ptugarin : I must be missing something, but how does customs pre-clearance shorten the turnaround times?
33 Articulatexpat : Times have changed. WN is running out of a few things it needs in order to continue expanding under the business model it has been using: cities and
34 STXBohn : The WN model demands the critical mass of population to support 14+ turns a day. If you start talking about the Caribbean for WN, SJU is the obvious m
35 RayChuang : By the way, I don't think WN wants to fly to SJU for this reason: passengers flying between SJU and MIA/JFK tend to carry a LOT of baggage. Given this
36 Post contains links Kohflot : I still don't think WN international expansion will be into the Caribbean or Canada - at least not at first. WN is well-positioned to take advantage o
37 1337Delta764 : The mayor of Albuquerque has stated that he would like nonstop service from ABQ to MEX. Maybe Southwest can be the first airline to provide the servic
38 Lexy : I think Nashville will get some international flights out of this deal. WN would almost be retarded to not start some flights across the boarders from
39 Airbazar : Yeah, I didn't understand that either. One has nothing to do with the other. When I visited PUJ this year, the AA 757 I flew on spent less than 1 hou
40 Catdaddy63 : If WN is serious about maximizing revenue, then flights to Mexico and Canada will get serious thought. HOU, SAT, SAN, PHX, LAX, and others would make
41 Articulatexpat : A.net doesn't recognize most of these cities. It would be a great courtesy if folks actually spelled out the names so that we wouldn't have to guess
42 AirStatDFW : They will not be able to use DAL. Under the agreement any new international flights will have to fly to DFW. So if WN would like to fly North or Sout
43 Post contains images RJdxer : Copy...hence the preface "there was a rumor".
44 IADLHR : A few years ago, I thought that it was announced that some airline was planning on starting ABQ-MEX service. I know it wasnt WN. However, nothing eve
45 Commavia : I have to ask myself if, at some point in the rather near future, it will make long-term strategic sense for Southwest to acquire ATA, or at least par
46 Post contains images MD90fan : Only BWI,MCO,MDW and PHL would be decent gateways to the Caribbean IMO. I could also see them on the following: BWI-BGI BWI-POP BWI-PUJ FLL-PUJ LAX-M
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