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EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier  
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11751 times:

A study carried out by the Boston Consulting Group states that EK will become the worlds largest long haul carrier by 2012.


http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Aviation/10128161.html


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
166 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLurveBus From Philippines, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11640 times:

with 45 A380s on order, one can't help but say 'duh'  Smile

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11585 times:
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They are going to be the proverbial 800-pound gorilla.

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11503 times:

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 1):
with 45 A380s on order, one can't help but say 'duh'

Make that 49 on order. 47 + 2 (leased from ILFC).

Ohh by the way do not rule out another order from Emirates in the near future  Wink

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11466 times:

Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11402 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

Did you actually read the article? It gives various details as to why Emirates is in a privilege situation to obtain those targets. While I also have some doubts about over capacity in the region, I think that the current Emirates model is working well, and their number clearly show that they know what they are doing.

Also do not forget that an eventual A350/B787 order will replace existing airplanes such as the A332/A345/772/777/77W.

I think that many of the major European/Asian airline that have not yet placed orders for the A380 may get a rather nasty surprise when Emirates start to attack. Luckily for Qantas and Singapore Airlines they have taken action and secured more delivery slots.

It will be interesting to see how long other majors such as BA,ANA, JAL,CX realise how much of a threat that EK will have on their market, if they do not keep up with an A380/B748i order.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11332 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it

The GCC countries have millions of expat workers and the infrastructure projects planned will see this number vastly increase which gives EK a huge passenger base. As the majority of these are migrant workers they are non too worried about FF programmes or IFE.



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11263 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

Quite simply, EK expects to draw traffic away from those "Tier One" EU and Asian carriers and connect them via DXB/JXB instead of LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS, SIN, and NRT.


User currently offlineParabolica From Spain, joined Mar 2006, 85 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10544 times:

Dear All,

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous



Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):
Ohh by the way do not rule out another order from Emirates in the near future

Two words : Pan Am


I own a growing business, and I too like to risk, and believe in agressive expansion, but this kind of model based on ever increasing growth simply does not make sense. No entity can expect to continually increase its size in these magnitudes by taking on more infrastructure, people, and tools. It has a limit, and that limit usually comes catastrophically.

That being said, I am not wishing them or any other airline any ill will, save perhaps Spanair which really cannot deserve its place in the Star Alliance. But thats another, more personal story.

Best Regards,
P



oh please let there never be cell phones in airliners...
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

I agree with the report, EK will rule the Long-Haul market in the world, either you like it or not.
I don't know why we always refer to EK's A380 orders, what is so special, it is 49 !! and look at the delivery period, it for 5 years if not more.

Another thing, why we always compare EK with other carriers, with all the respect to them, EK is a unique experience in the world, they are not focusing on UAE or GCC or Europe, their focus in the whole globe. They are not very much in N & S America they have a strong potential there, and every where due to the tickets price they offer.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.

Thank you! It couldn't be better said... The airline is expanding more than what it can handle and EK is lacking terribly behind the real LUCRATIVE carriers SQ,LH,CX,JL,MH,QF,KLM/AF,BA...
EK has simply gone ahead and dumped capacity on markets which dont support it and already well served with national carriers...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10285 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Where in Africa can you fly to anywhere in the world ?
Where in the middle east can you fly to anywhere in the world ?
Where in South West Asia can you fly anywhere in the world ?

This represents an area of approx 25% of the planet, (admittedly poorer) but served enmasse by only 1 dominant carrier.. Emirates. If only 1% of this region can afford to fly.. it would fill every plane Emirates has ordered.

Qatar / Etihad / Gulf are also trying to get a slice of this cake but Kuwait / Air India etc are hardly "major" airlines when compared with the sizes of US airlines.

The middle east / africa is the last area to be explored in commerical aviation.

Emirates's plan is to provide a hub in Dubai that feeds dozens of countries in the region, who before pretty much only had the choice of EU airlines flying to european hubs or to South Africa 1 - 2 times a week, or daily at best, or with "privateeers" in old junk buckets.

When emirates is upto full strength, expect it to open more hubs out side of the middle east...(New Zealand, Ireland maybe even Canada / Mexico further south even ?) Emirates will become the first true global airline.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10210 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 12):
Emirates will become the first true global airline.

I think Im going to  vomit 

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7033 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10117 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.

Any organization that expands too fast will run into unforeseen problems; it is human nature. The problems will come as they try to add enough staff to fly and maintain all these planes and get them to act as a part of the company. Every company has its identity based on how they do things, and it is maintained and perpetuated by the long-term employees. When these get overwhelmed by too many newcomers at once the result will be chaos, as everyone will have their own ideas of how things should be done and there will not be enough old-timers to maintain the original practices. Leadership is crucial, but followership is equally important, if underrated. Basically, people are fundamentally bad at it and when you have such a dramatic influx of disparate people (note that most of the crews are expatriates-this will compound the problem) the recipe for disaster is almost perfect.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10088 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

If I am a construction worker from India, working on a project in Mozambique... why would I want to fly via Hong Kong, Frankfurt or even Rome ?
And.. when I take a family on a holiday to Cairo from India... why would I want to go via Europe ?
Or what about an IT engineer in Ghana moving to Singapore, would I go via London ?

Make no mistakes.. there's thousands of people in this market.

Emirates has already said not all their A380's will be long haul.
there are are hard working all over africa and the middle east, regardless their salary.. they travel.
If the option is Europe or by boat.. the boat wins.

Now they have a more direct and much cheaper route via Dubai.


I dont think all Emirate's focus is on Europe, hardly at all and it's arrogant of us westerners to assume all airlines / people just want to fly to Europe and America. Often it's the lack of a more direct route that forces people to travel via Europe.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10063 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 9):
I don't know why we always refer to EK's A380 orders, what is so special, it is 49 !! and look at the delivery period, it for 5 years if not more.

If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9784 times:

Dubai is gonna be THE largest hub for east-west / west-east routes and EK gonna be the King

Way to go EK!

Micke//  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9449 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 12):
Emirates will become the first true global airline.

Come back with that argument once EK actually serves over 220 destinations from DXB and over 300 destinations total.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 16):
If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?

For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.


User currently offlineQuetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9311 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 14):
Any organization that expands too fast will run into unforeseen problems; it is human nature. The problems will come as they try to add enough staff to fly and maintain all these planes and get them to act as a part of the company. Every company has its identity based on how they do things, and it is maintained and perpetuated by the long-term employees. When these get overwhelmed by too many newcomers at once the result will be chaos, as everyone will have their own ideas of how things should be done and there will not be enough old-timers to maintain the original practices. Leadership is crucial, but followership is equally important, if underrated. Basically, people are fundamentally bad at it and when you have such a dramatic influx of disparate people (note that most of the crews are expatriates-this will compound the problem) the recipe for disaster is almost perfect.

Pretty damn true about the staffing issue. An airline can get away with certain aspects of such a rapid expansion such as sending aircraft to 3rd parties for mx etc etc... but I see them having a real problem maintaining quality control and 'consistent' service, especially when it comes to their cabin crew. It'll be a real challenge for EK.



No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4906 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9164 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 16):
If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.

Been to Dubai lately? It's got huge O&D and that is still growing and will for the foreseeable future. This added to it's transit offerings is huge. Especially when one considers that many European countries and Canada and the US have in recent years tightened transit Visa laws. This essentially means anyone with an Asian or African passport is given the runaround. The UAE is slap bang in the middle of the Africa/Asia crossroads and they will exploit all of this.


YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3083 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9107 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.

YOWza has got it spot-on. Also, Dubai has lots of transit passengers from Asia/Australia/Africa/Middle East <--> Europe

Not to mention Middle East <--> North/South America market.

BA does not have a lot of transit passengers, the only ones are Europe <--> Asia/North America, which only a tiny amount of people use due to the competitive products of AF/KL, LH, etc.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 19):
Been to Dubai lately? It's got huge O&D and that is still growing and will for the foreseeable future

Are you trying to tell me that Dubai's O&D is on the level of London?!? Sorry, but even if Dubai is growing, it still has ways to go before it will have as many inhabitants as London.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 19):
The UAE is slap bang in the middle of the Africa/Asia crossroads and they will exploit all of this.

Who says that Indian carriers won't do just the same? Or African carriers for that matter? Fact is that as time goes by, Indian carriers get more and more longhaul planes which allow them to open up more routes that will fly over EK's Dubai hub, be it to Europe, Africa or North America. It's not like EK is the only option in town. Competition is getting way more intense in the battle for Indians heading West, and it is my firm belief that things won't be as easy as Clark and his folks make it out to be.


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1125 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

With many other reasons India helps.
Wanna take a guess how much traffic growth will India have till 2012? EK is positioning itself to be the one to connect the world to serve the ever growing market



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7033 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8965 times:

One thing left out of the equation is that airliners are now appearing that have the range to connect any city pair in the world non-stop. This will inevitably lessen the importance of hubs, as most passengers (especially those able to afford premium prices) will prefer non-stop flights. This will work against EK and anyone else who builds their strategy around a hub.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Is the airport going to be able to handle this type of growth??

25 CXfirst : They are building JXB, which will be huge Heard from one member on this site that DXB will then be exclusively for EK, while all the others go to JXB
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...yes, especially the new JXB airport coming online next decade....
27 Incitatus : But there are not a lot of longhaul city pairs that have enough local traffic to support nonstop flights. Look at today's London to HongKong. It is a
28 CV580Freak : The existing DXB is being upgraded at the moment at the same time as the new JXL Jebel Ali airport is being built at a cost of US$82 billion. The new
29 SEPilot : What you say is true; however I see more and more city pairs being connected directly, and I also see more people taking local flights to reach a cit
30 Shenzhen : Quoting Incitatus (Reply 27): It is the same in the Americas. Somebody working for Google's Research Center in Mountain View, CA, going to its Latin A
31 StarGoldLHR : 20 years ago you would say the same thing about BA and Ryanair.. no way BA would be overtaken in Europe blah blah... now look Ryanair's bigger then B
32 Post contains links CV580Freak : Passenger aircraft = 92 + 88 on order Cargo aircraft = 8 + 21 on order http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Airline#Passenger_Fleet
33 Post contains links FXramper : How Big Will Emirates Get? (by BoeingFever777 May 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)
34 OldAeroGuy : Are you suggesting that the A380 will reduce LHR congestion by never actually flying there?
35 Post contains images Flysherwood : I have to agree about the expansion being ludicrous but I cannot say from experience whether they are a fine airline or not. I do know this, being th
36 AirxLiban : Can anyone give me a hand with filling out the top 8? 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. Emirates I'd have thought LH is #1 and BA is #2 with SQ and AF-KLM somew
37 Emirates773ER : As a economy passenger I would never put Ek below BA in any respect. I was a regular BA flyer to DXB from YYZ/YVR until I tried EK this Christmas. Th
38 Travelin man : I fail to see how Emirates will ever be a major player in the trans-Pacific market (which is huge). Largest "global" carrier is all well and good, but
39 KHI747 : StarGoldLHR- is right.I agree with each assessment that he makes. The fact is that EK wont just be doing Middle East-Europe or Africa-Far East but th
40 David_itl : So you'd pay a premium for a non-stop service. Good for you. For others, doing it a lot cheaper by flying via DXB may be more suited to their pocket.
41 Post contains images Flysherwood : If you really believe that EK is targeting the non-premium passengers, then you don't know how the longhaul airline business makes money. Why else wo
42 CupraIbiza : On a shortish flight maybe - but from what I have endured (hell) on MEL-LHR. Forget it!!! Imagine the torture if the flight was non stop. A prisoner
43 MD-90 : The first? I think Pan Am would've qualified for that a few decades ago.
44 Cba : The argument is not that there's not a market to exploit: EK is clearly doing a good job of that. However, 100 extra wide body planes within the next
45 Stitch : Of course, one should remember that EK is not operating in a vacuum here. They fully intend to poach traffic from other long-haul carriers like BA, LH
46 United Airline : I doubt DXB will ever overtake SIN, HKG, NRT, LHR etc. Nowadays most people fly direct from the west to the east. And with the B787 we will see additi
47 JRDC930 : As an aspiring pilot, i love spending as much time in a plane as possible, however this is probably not true of the average joe public. At the same t
48 Jacobin777 : 1)many of those planes will be for fleet replacament by the time the B787's and A350's come online, so its not as if they will have hundreds upon hun
49 AndesSMF : Doubt they would just sit idly by and let EK poach. And another two words: Qater Airlines. Are EK and QR not competitors? How are they both going to
50 CXfirst : just reached 100 aircraft, and already they have orders for more than a hundred more (with many more orders to come in the A350/787 section) -CXfirst
51 UAEflyer : I love this expression, you are very intelligent Why do you doubt DXB taking SIN,,,,,etc position. DXB i location in the world is much better than SI
52 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Well, for one thing, I like EK. I use them when I need to fly to New York for work. I live in the North of the Netherlands and I fly frequently from H
53 Stitch : Of course, but EK will be able to use price to undermine their positions, just as the LCCs have done to their US and EU "big brothers" this past deca
54 EKSkycargo370 : On a seperate note does any have any information regarding a 6th LHR frequency?
55 Bimmerkid19 : that would be nice, because then the level of service inflight would be much better than it is right now in some parts of the world.
56 Post contains images YOWza : No and I didn't say that, but that doesn't not take away from the huge market potential does it? Indian aviation is riddled with problems. The bureau
57 Post contains links BlueElephant : This was all recently in an Aviation Week article, about EK and how they're running and how they're dealing with other airlines in the area such as EY
58 United Airline : Nowadays nonstop flights are also very cheap. HKG is very well located close to China. My 2 cents.
59 Post contains images Flysherwood : Their not the largest YET! We'll see how profitable they are 5-10 years from now. Ok, I know you think that DXB is in the middle of the world, but he
60 BigTom : EK might be heading for the skies, but they need to look into the little matter of slipping service standards which are becoming more and more evident
61 BlueElephant : Yes they're not the largest yet...but with 103 aircraft they're not by any means a small airline. But like i said...Schedule planning and fleet plann
62 UAEflyer : I agree with you, i also say that Dubai is growing without taking place of any one, Dubai will complete the other cities such as HK, Singapore & Chin
63 PlaneHunter : If there IS a nonstop to DEL or BOM, fine - but if I'm going to BLR, COK, CCU or HYD I'd prefer a stop at DXB rather than BOM or DEL. And btw - if I
64 AndesSMF : But they are certainly attempting to have a bigger overall airline than any of these cities. Chinese carriers have grown rapidly over the last decade
65 PlaneHunter : The Indian airlines may be fine but the problem is airport infrastructure. PH
66 Flysherwood : There is no doubt that India is growing rapidly. But again, I reiterate that the trade that goes on between China, Japan, Singapore and The USA is do
67 Baron95 : I think EK and QR will be an increasingly major threat to carriers in Europe (first), Asia (second) and Americas (third). the reasons are pretty obvio
68 Stitch : And yet India just allowed US carriers to launch (or resume) services while holding IT back from launching their own US services. I don't know what t
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...who should I believe, you or SQ's Chew who has stated a few times that his two majour concerns about SQ are 1)planes such as the B787, A350 2)a ca
70 Post contains images Flysherwood : Which doesn't say a lot for a company that has purchased 43 A380's with the thought that they will be coursing all the passengers through DXB.
71 BigTom : Arab or Muslim I can understand, but there is no way Dubai or the UAE can be considered Third World. Cheers
72 AndesSMF : Can and when will any Indian airport be able to handle an A380.
73 JRDC930 : Exactly, If EK starts undercutting other airlines like LCC's but with their excellent economy service, they Will be very appealing. After all why fly
74 BlueElephant : There is so much politics going on in India. Most of the indian airlines are not allowed to operate outside of Indian until after 5 years of Domestic
75 Post contains images Flysherwood : First of all, the 777-200LR and the 787's / A350 is going to negate the need to stop in DXB or LHR or AMS or any other hub in order to go from JFK-BO
76 BlueElephant : You are negating the fact that, EK provides a better first, business AND economy package than many other Airlines..including Air India and CO/UA/AA..
77 EKSkycargo370 : LHR has 5 daily flights and LGW has 3.Do you think EK will increase this to 6 LHR flights? The other question to ask is when the A380 does finally en
78 Post contains links Stitch : Delhi, Mumbai, Calcutta, Chennai and Hyderabad are being made "A380-ready" through suitable runways and parking bays. While current traffic to Delhi
79 David_itl : Okay. please elaborate a list of REGIONAL long-haul operations from the UK that a 787 or A350 is going to open up that cannot be done profitably alre
80 Shenzhen : The two biggest problems for Emirates is slot availability in foreign countries, that do in fact want to see their local airlines succeed, and the adv
81 Post contains images Flysherwood : This has exactly been my point. I know that EK is profitable now. But their quest to be the LARGEST is only worthwile if they still make money at it!
82 Flysherwood : Try flying for 11 - 12 hours and then sitting at an airport for another 2 hours only to board another flight for a 3 hour flight and then arriving at
83 David_itl : The A380 configs (they will have 3) will be from around 450 passengers to 650 passengers. Can't be bothered looking for the exact numbers as they are
84 AndesSMF : If EK was more successful, your theory would indicate that no one would be flying Pakistan-UK on PK. But they are. And again, what passenger provides
85 Post contains images Emirates773ER : The problem here is that our Western friends do not understand the mentality of asians flying back home from Europ/N.America. Most of these passengers
86 Post contains images Flysherwood : It is Business Class that I fly. If I had the chance to go direct, there is no way I would spend 2-4 hours at NRT or any other hub!!!
87 AndesSMF : We have plenty of allegations, but no first hand accounts from anyone about that.
88 BlueElephant : hmm...thats interesting....so a total of 17 hours of travel time. I bet it'd be less if you went through DXB instead of NRT. I suggest you try that b
89 Viscount724 : JL doesn't operate JFK-SFO. Assume that must be a codeshare. And why compare an uncompetitive indirect routing like that when JL has much faster nons
90 Shenzhen : Why not fly JFK-HKG direct? Certainly quicker then 23 hours and less chance of delays with only one departure. Cheers
91 Viscount724 : And why fly thousands of miles further than necessary? JFK-HKG nonstop 7014 naut. mi. JFK-NRT-HKG 7461 naut. mi. JFK-DXB-HKG 9153 naut mi.
92 BlueElephant : Set travel times are something that Business Travels tend to need. So i had made those above statements based on the same time of departure. If a Bus
93 Emirates773ER : First option please. Why? 1. More Recline 2. 500 channels 3. Better price
94 AndesSMF : Please, a long flight is a long flight is a long flight, especially in economy. Get the thing over with quickly. Not extend it for 6 hours more of fl
95 Snehnath : They still fly, don't they? If you are alluding to price sensitivity, fairly regularly, JFK-BOM on DL is as cheap or cheaper than JFK-DXB-BOM via EK.
96 PlaneHunter : I flew MUC-SYD and BNE-MUC on Emirates last year. The BNE-SIN-DXB (B773) one-stop service was much more enjoyable than the 13,5-hour-nonstop from DXB
97 AndesSMF : But did you go 8 hours out of your way?
98 Byrdluvs747 : I'm surprised noone has mentioned the speculative nature of EK's growth. In recent times we had the dotcom bubble, and the subprime housing bubble. No
99 Post contains links and images Iwok : Yep. We are also in a oil-price bubble that cannot last forever, and this is the main reason for the recent growth. www.inflationdata.com iwok
100 CupraIbiza : What a generalisation. How many Middle East countries are politically unstable? I have just returned from Jordan. Probably one of the most politicall
101 WingedMigrator : Anemic sales of the 772LR and A345 do not support this view. ULR aircraft need ~15% more fuel to fly direct rather than making a stop halfway. This i
102 Byrdluvs747 : My statement of "politically unstable" doesn't refer to the number of countries, as much as it does the potential for instability and the resulting s
103 AndesSMF : There are still way too many people who have not seen the many bubbles (essentially a commodity bubble) that has engulfed the world. This is not some
104 CXfirst : EK fleet as of March 2007: A310-300 1 A330-200 29 A340-300 8 A340-500 10 777-200 3 777-200ER 6 777-300 12 777-300ER 23 A310-300F 3 747-400F 5 Orders:
105 DAL767400ER : A345 perhaps, but 47 sales for 77L doesn't exactly sound anemic to me. You can also add in LCC bubbles in the US, Canada and Europe. In the US after
106 Flysherwood : Premium paying passengers, you know the ones that make long haul airlines profitable!!!
107 Post contains images Flysherwood : What part of "...from the WEST COAST..." do you not understand?!?!
108 Flysherwood : You make a lot of assumptions. Doing your research and actually doing it are two different things. No it was not UA. I have been traveling these rout
109 Aerofan : I have flown EK in J Routing was JFK/DXB/BKK/SYD and back For those who are talking about it would be ok to have a connecting flight instead of flying
110 PlaneHunter : The "middle-east" cannot be generalized. No - who has suggested so in that discussion? Very honest, to be precise. You flew a total of 14,500 miles e
111 Aerofan : PH, You miss the point - I'm not talking about hypothetical situ. Having flown it using frequent flyer points- I can tell you that I would not do it a
112 Quetzal : Well said. And my knee bone is unlikely to ever be connected to my shoulder bone.... unless it's via DXB. Everywhere can be generalised! Martians are
113 AndesSMF : I did the math with this reply.
114 BlueElephant : Well then yes...I believe that it would be faster through the West Coast. (My Apologies) However...if you were in Central US say...Houston...then EK
115 WingedMigrator : You are no doubt implying that the number of shipping containers bears a direct relationship to the number of premium airline passengers (you know, t
116 Post contains images Flysherwood : Have you tried buying business class seats to SE Asia lately? You have to try several different dates on any given airline, have done so just recentl
117 Flysherwood : And that is probably because you don't HAVE to do it for your job or your business. I really cannot imagine that anyone who has to travel for a livin
118 Post contains images Flysherwood : NO it wouldn't be faster from Houston. WHAT are you talking about?!?! YOU WANT TO FLY EAST to get to BEIJING from HOUSTON?
119 Emirates773ER : Have you tried travelling to Dubai from Europe or N.America? Finding a seat is sometimes equavilent to finding gold. No as profitable as EK. Money at
120 Post contains links Jacobin777 : ..yet DXB/Emirate's growth to/from the United States is nothing short of amazing.. "Commenting on the news of the new flight, Paul Sutphin, the Unite
121 Post contains images Flysherwood : Are you really going to compare the amount of travel to China, Japan and Singapore from Europe and N. America to the amount of travel to Dubai from E
122 Post contains images Jacobin777 : no one said that's happening.. ... ..what many are saying is though DXB is growing at a phenomenal rate (right now at least) and carriers such as EK
123 Flysherwood : Would you care to guess how many US companies are registered in China alone? Or how many US citizens live in Japan. And by the way, the starting of d
124 Emirates773ER : No one is suggesting the pure assumptions you are making. The only think I find ludicrous is the how hard you find to digest the fact about how profi
125 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..what part do you not understand mate?
126 Baron95 : I said "third world perception". By that I mean that a premium passanger that can go from NY to Deli on AA, BA etc, will associate those with "first
127 PlaneHunter : I'm not trying anything - read my post again. I simply wondered why you flew 4,500 miles more than necessary and then complain about the flight durat
128 Jacobin777 : ...and perceptions can change....pax from Australia, New Zealand (amongst others) already see the EY's and EK's as "top-tiered" carriers.....
129 KHI747 : Well you have got to be a pretty naive and stupid person to make that assumption or have that perception to begin with.The profile of most premium pa
130 Malaysia : Yes but only it was Pan Am itself.
131 Post contains images Flysherwood : Do you understand the relevance of the total industrial output of China and Japan and what that means to the PLANET? You have got to be joking. That
132 Post contains images Flysherwood : I am not questioning how profitable EK or Dubai is at all. What I question is how EK is going to handle the expansion from this point on. They have s
133 PlaneHunter : And the relevance of this for Dubai's and EK's growth is...? We have been talking about EK in particular and its home base emirate is not dependent o
134 Viscount724 : Oil is only 6% of DXB's GDP currently. It must be a higher percentage in AUH.
135 Emirates773ER : Sure and some day the US will decline as a super power, all the stock markets will correct like in the 90's, oil prices will go to the 40's and Obama
136 Flysherwood : As much as The Emir would like to believe that Dubai will be the center of business and commerce of the world, it is too far from the biggest source
137 Post contains images PlaneHunter : The UAE is sitting atop 9% of the world’s proven oil reserves and almost 5% of the world’s natural gas - and Abu Dhabi owns the lion’s share of
138 Post contains images Flysherwood : Are you implying that there is only a slight possiblility of a slowdown in the airline industry in the next 10 years? When you have actually worked t
139 PlaneHunter : When has the Emir has expressed that, btw? Which apparently doesn't stop EK from outgrowing carriers based at SIN or HKG. PH
140 Flysherwood : And like I said, we will see where they are in 10 years. Have you not read that this is his specific goal and belief? Look up The Economist, Newsweek
141 PlaneHunter : EK was still profitable after 9/11 and during the Second Gulf War and even continued its growth, we shouldn't forget... PH
142 PlaneHunter : Yes - there could be a second major Asia crisis, or a new round of US carriers being close to bankruptcy. Anything could happen in ten years. You pos
143 Flysherwood : Do you know what a business cycle is?
144 Post contains images Flysherwood : They didn't have upwards of $25 - 30 billion worth of airplanes to fill during that time!
145 PlaneHunter : Do you know when exactly in the last 17 years Emirates was faced with periods of stagnation or decline? PH
146 Flysherwood : Again, $ 25 - 30 billion worth of planes to FILL!!!!!!!
147 StarGoldLHR : They might have flown the world.. but they never acheived regional status in global regions. I suspect Emirates will incorporate this into their plan
148 PlaneHunter : You forget that EK will also use these orders to replace its existing fleet which has already exceeded 100 widebodies, btw. It's also very likely a k
149 Flysherwood : Pan Am achieved regional status in South America and Western Europe. I think you are right on there. The Middle East, Africa and Western Asia includi
150 Flysherwood : The current widebodies are pretty young, are they not? I probably misunderstood, but from what I can deduce from the different things I have read Mr.
151 StarGoldLHR : A brilliant angle... but yes.. it's possible. If 500 people going from one destination in Africa to another in Asia daily decided to go a more direct
152 Post contains images StarGoldLHR : If theres a slow down in the next 10 years it will affect more than just EK, so it wont just be them in the airfield alone. Personally Ive been waiti
153 PlaneHunter : The oldest aircraft are only 11 years old but EK has always tried to keep the fleet young, just like SIA has been doing. The first two A332s will lea
154 Post contains images Flysherwood : No doubt about it.
155 StarGoldLHR : You should read some newspapers... in the 1950's they said the idea of any electronics being made in Japan actually working or even being useful was
156 PlaneHunter : I remember a quote by Muhammad bin Raschid Al Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai: "You have to decide whether you want to imitate or take the initiative. We
157 Post contains images Flysherwood : Maybe, maybe not! We shall see 10 years from now. In the end, for all aviation enthusiasts, the more planes in the sky and on the ground to observe,
158 StarGoldLHR : I dont think EK will enter the leasing business.. it's not their model at all. I would imagine if they did it would be a separate venture. EK wants a
159 StarGoldLHR : Unless of course richard branson invents' his hyperjet flying the world in 2 hours with no carbon emissions.. or the personal teletransporter comes o
160 Bimmerkid19 : This may be a bit off-topic, but do EK ´s A332 ´s and A343 ´s have the new ICE IFE or the old IFE with only 15 Channels of Movies compared to the 4
161 Flysherwood : Here I agree with you. I have a hard time with many on A.net that believe that EK and DXB is the end all and that soon Singapore and Hong Kong will b
162 StarGoldLHR : I'm still not sure I subscribe to the A350/787 theory of every second city in the world will have a direct service. i think the 767 and 757 are getti
163 BlueElephant : Yeah i was definately thinking of India....As IAH to India would be faster via the Atlantic....and seeing as there is a LARGE Arabic and Indian Popul
164 PlaneHunter : No, they don't have ICE and I haven't heard yet of a plans to upgrade them. Btw - ICE offers more than 500 different channels, including nore than 14
165 Post contains links Philzh : Maybe the idea of an EK hub in AKL would not be so bad, as folks in NZ seem to really like Emirates (with good reason, I think): http://www.nzherald.c
166 Post contains images Flysherwood : Again, they did not have a fleet of aircraft worth $25-30 billion that they had to pay for as they will in the next couple of years. One other thing,
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