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MAS Looking For 110 New Planes: 55 Wide-bodies  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8760 times:

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...16_KLT005064&type=comktNews&rpc=44

According to Reuters, Malaysia Airlines is looking for 110 new planes, in which 55 are wide-body jets. No specific details released, but did mentioned about replacing 737-400s from 2014.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=264530

The replacement candidate are 320s, 737NGs, as well as the C-Series

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8756 times:

I was under the impression that they had too many capacity?

User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

This news came out some 5 hours ago in Malaysian Aviation Thread 4 (by 9MMAR May 28 2007 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlinePieinthesky From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 392 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
I was under the impression that they had too many capacity?

They do, and have been reducing the 744 fleet. But remember this is Malaysia, where sadly a great airline has many key decisions made by politicians who know zip about the industry.


User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Pieinthesky, although partially right, you must also not forget that MH needs replacement aircraft for the A330 and B777.

Planning for the long term would mean shopping for the aircraft now seeing that the backlog for the A350/B787 is easily 6-7 years from now. By then the oldest A330 would be almost 20 years, and the oldest B777 would also be due for replacement.

Also, in order to stay in the game, obviously MH needs next generation widebodies that are efficient to compete.

In conclusion, politics or not, it is right that MH is starting to think about widebody fleet replacement. In fact, they have started to look into it for a while and has pretty much decided to keep the A330 since it is such a cash cow for regional missions while the B777 does the long haul (together with some B744s that will eventually be replaced with A380s). Then, these planes will be replaced with either the B787 or A350 and MH will have a very simple widebody fleet.


User currently offlineMH1402 From Malaysia, joined Jun 2006, 123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
I was under the impression that they had too many capacity?



Quoting Pieinthesky (Reply 3):
They do, and have been reducing the 744 fleet.

Hmm Maybe they're planning on expanding their current network by 2014. True! for current network they're are experiencing over capacities. The Idea's of replacing B747 with all B787 or B777 isn't such a bad idea as a remedies of over capacities.

MH is a very bad airlines indeed if they're not planning ahead for their networks expansion and/or adding frequencies for current networks.

Personally, I find that 7 years time frames quite a long time. Ideally it should be 5 years.

[Edited 2007-05-28 22:56:10]


For the King and country...
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3071 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7068 times:

Hope they order A320's. As for the widebodies, it's anybodies guess.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6926 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 6):
Hope they order A320's.

Five years ago (or thereabouts) MH were rumoured to be very close to a large Airbus order for A320s and A340-600s. Obviously, that never materialised. The A346s will now be off the menu, I assume, but the A320s may still be in the running.


User currently offlineJfr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Everything they have is getting old, and they desperately need to develop a fleet plan.

If they make long-term agreements for just a few different types, with stretched out delivery schedules, then they might just be able to keep their capacity under control and at the same time rationalize their fleet - for the first time!

Remember SQ and their agreement for seventy-seven 777 orders and options spread over a handful of years, and how brilliant they looked? MH could do the same if they wanted to.......maybe this is their thinking.

On the other hand, this is the SE Asian airline which has built a monster 380 hangar, that they most certainly do not need to support just 6 frames. That little fiasco has cost them about USD 100mm, which they did not need to spend. So, possibly Pieinthesky might just be spot on!

A question, if MH is studying this, are they using a team of experts like GRA to assist them, or are they making another homemade decision?


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

...isn't this the airline who went as far as a press-release stating that none of its intercon flights were profitable?

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9183 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

MH's B 747-400s/ 777-200ERs as well as A 330s are still very new and they need not be replaced anytime soon. When it comes to replacement I suppose they will order the B 787 to replace the B 777-200Rs as well as A 330s and the B 747-8 (they expressed interest in the B 747-8 and they actually asked Boeing to make the B 747-8) to replace their B 747-400s.

What about the A 380s? Thought they plan to cancel the order. But again in the long run they might need up to 4-5 A 380s.

How many MH B 747-400s are in operation? Have they upgraded the remaining two and are they back in service? What's up with the rest that are out of service?


User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3396 times:

6x A380 plus further options - to be deployed on heavy trunk international routes eg. LHR, SYD, MEL, AMS
55x B787-8 and B787-9 - would cover most of the other mix of long-haul/med-haul routes from KUL.
55x A321/A320/A319 mix - would provide MAS with the best flexibility on domestic and regional runs.

IMO - that would probably equip MAS' need for the years they are planning for and would simplify their aircraft maintenance and fleet.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9183 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):
...isn't this the airline who went as far as a press-release stating that none of its intercon flights were profitable?

Shouldn't be. They fly lots of Malaysians across the world.

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 11):
6x A380 plus further options - to be deployed on heavy trunk international routes eg. LHR, SYD, MEL, AMS
55x B787-8 and B787-9 - would cover most of the other mix of long-haul/med-haul routes from KUL.
55x A321/A320/A319 mix - would provide MAS with the best flexibility on domestic and regional runs.

IMO - that would probably equip MAS' need for the years they are planning for and would simplify their aircraft maintenance and fleet.

I suppose they need the B 747-8 as well.

Didn't they say that the A 380s are likely to be cancelled?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8387 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3219 times:
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MAS should have two types of planes, one for regional and domestic(737NG or A320) and long haul(777 or 787). Having 6 A380 is too much plane and too few to operate an efficient fleet. The long haul can also operate regionally as so many Asian airlines do. A 773ER is about as much capacity as MAS needs, even for LHR.

User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1693 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Having 6 A380 is too much plane and too few to operate an efficient fleet.

perhaps less efficient fleet wise, but still lots cheaper than sending over 2 A330's or 744's to ship the same amount of pax.
So I fully trust their decision in ordering 6 380's, because when they didn't need them, they would not have bought them.

Brgds,
DALCE



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):

Shouldn't be. They fly lots of Malaysians across the world.

Unfortunately, this is what's being stated in their restructuring report.

Also, the theory is really silly.


User currently offlinePieinthesky From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 392 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Shouldn't be. They fly lots of Malaysians across the world.

What a strange comment. Just because an airline flies people internationally does not mean they will make a profit. Besides which a large percentage of MH's pax on international routes are not Malaysian.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
A 773ER is about as much capacity as MAS needs, even for LHR.

And you are basing that on what exactly? I presume you've got the loads and yields for LHR in front of you. Care to share?

Quoting Pieinthesky (Reply 16):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Shouldn't be. They fly lots of Malaysians across the world.

What a strange comment. Just because an airline flies people internationally does not mean they will make a profit. Besides which a large percentage of MH's pax on international routes are not Malaysian.

True.

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 11):
6x A380 plus further options - to be deployed on heavy trunk international routes eg. LHR, SYD, MEL, AMS
55x B787-8 and B787-9 - would cover most of the other mix of long-haul/med-haul routes from KUL.
55x A321/A320/A319 mix - would provide MAS with the best flexibility on domestic and regional runs.

IMO - that would probably equip MAS' need for the years they are planning for and would simplify their aircraft maintenance and fleet.

Agreed - 787 would be great, as would the A350 in various permutations. I would say there is probably a case for 787-10 or A350XWB-1000 as well - the gap to those A380s is awful big otherwise.

I think the 737NG would be 50/50 vs the A32X series. That one's too close to call.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 17):
Agreed - 787 would be great, as would the A350 in various permutations. I would say there is probably a case for 787-10 or A350XWB-1000 as well - the gap to those A380s is awful big otherwise.

I think the 737NG would be 50/50 vs the A32X series. That one's too close to call.

The main reason I suggested the A32X being a more sensible option is really because politically it may give the Airbus crew a better rota in combination with the A380 (which has been confirmed). I guess one could argue that the A350 routes might also work well with the A380 crew and choosing the 737NG would negate retraining its 737 fleet. oh well... guess those are the 2 most sensible choices... let's see if MAS considers either...

The A380 will stay and will be filled for routes like LHR - as it should also improve MAS' yields on such runs.

ps - I also agree - there are some rather weird comments above...


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

Quoting Jfr (Reply 8):
Remember SQ and their agreement for seventy-seven 777 orders and options spread over a handful of years, and how brilliant they looked? MH could do the same if they wanted to.......maybe this is their thinking.

But the difference between them is that SQ ACTUALLY ORDERED the 77 B777s... plus more. So far all the "intentions" from MAS to order remains just that.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
MH's B 747-400s/ 777-200ERs as well as A 330s are still very new and they need not be replaced anytime soon.

UA, what the airline is doing is for the long term. At present, their oldest 744 and A330 is more that 10 yrs old. By the time this new RFP materialises, several more years would have lapsed and when the order is made and aircraft finally delivered, their model of aircraft you mentioned would have been close to 20 yrs old. Time for a replacement, don't you think?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Shouldn't be. They fly lots of Malaysians across the world.

Garuda flies Indonesians around, PAL flies Filipinos, Thai flies Thais... and your point being? The international profitability of the airlines in SE Asia rely a lot of 6th freedom traffic - flying pax from Point A to Point B via their homebase airport. Absolutely nothing to do with flying their own country folk to shore up the account books. Perhaps you would like to share with us what made you think that?



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9183 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Well I mean lots of people in Malsysia fly MH all over the world. I know they rely heavily on 6th freedom flights.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 19):
At present, their oldest 744 and A330 is more that 10 yrs old.

You are right. They will be around for a while though


User currently offlineMH1402 From Malaysia, joined Jun 2006, 123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):
.isn't this the airline who went as far as a press-release stating that none of its intercon flights were profitable?

I wonder if all their intercon flight now at loss.... what does the Operational Profit MYR120++ Million for 1Q FY2007 mean? Unlike 3Q and 4Q FY2006 which saw a lot of retrechment and asset selling..

So I believe things has change within MH.. at least now they can actually make profit from Operation...



For the King and country...
User currently offlinePaparadzi From Malaysia, joined Jan 2005, 202 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 6):
Hope they order A320's.

The B734s will most likely be replaced by B737NG.



Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
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