SeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 724 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9104 times:
On BBC News 24 they said the man had a resistant strain of TB and travelled from Atlanta - Paris then Prague - Montreal. They have asked passengers on his flights to report to a hospital. The man is in quarantine in Atlanta. Its on News24 now
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25107 posts, RR: 60 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9051 times:
Yes this strain is extremly dangerous and has been resistant to drugs!! The US have even issued a rare qurantine order.
The two airlines affected were AF and OK .
[Edited 2007-05-29 22:22:56]
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7523 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8709 times:
The man didn't appear to have been feeling sick when he was flying. I imagine he is more upset about having the disease than we are about him flying.
The patient, who has few symptoms, has radiographic evidence of pulmonary TB and tests positive for XDR-TB, the agency said.
"On the basis of the patient's clinical and laboratory status, and lack of receiving adequate treatment for XDR-TB, this patient was considered potentially infectious at the time of his airline travel, and meets the criteria in the WHO guidelines for initiating an airline contact investigation," it said.
IcLCY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8465 times:
FYI, London has one if not the worst rates of TB in Europe. Statistics I saw a few yrs ago certain areas of London were worse than places like Kolkata. One of the many reasons I don't take public transport anymore.
Arrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2588 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
Quoting IcLCY (Reply 11): Thats a whole new area which would also have legal issue for airlines and the threat of being sued if they got it wrong and denied a passenger the right to fly. Also how does a check in agent or gate agent tell if youve got TB or a cold!!!
That's why I'd love to hear some lawyers weigh in on this one. Airlines can deny boarding to people who meet certain criteria (e.g. falling-down drunk, abusive to crew/fellow passengers). And a pilot can land the plane somewhere and have someone kicked off. And they can haul you off if your name is on the no-fly list. So the question is a due-diligence issue. How much responsibility does an airline have if it allows some one who is obviously sick (albeit with an unknown condition) to get into a controlled-atmosphere cigar tube for several hours with a couple of hundred fellow travellers. The question is where do you draw the line? Wonder if there's any case law on this.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Gte439u From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 359 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8336 times:
Quoting Arrow (Reply 13): How much responsibility does an airline have if it allows some one who is obviously sick (albeit with an unknown condition) to get into a controlled-atmosphere cigar tube for several hours with a couple of hundred fellow travellers. The question is where do you draw the line? Wonder if there's any case law on this.
We may not have to look at case law on this one - even if we did, which country would we look to - since the WHO has a guidelines for airlines. It appears that an airline would not be unreasonable to deny boarding to someone simply carrying TB. Of course, these are only guidelines, so individual jurisdictions may have laws to the contrary.
JER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8078 times:
90% of TB carriers do not show symptoms. Its only a small minority where the bacteria (mycobacterium tuberculosis) actually reach the alvioli to cause the infection. Seeing as he travelled on the 12th May this is about the time required for symptoms to become evident and a (differential) diagnosis made, if he was diagnosed around now.
So in all probability the guy in question probably walked on board that A/C having no idea he was a carrier of the disease, as 1/3 of us are!
I don't think burning him at the stake is quite the answer...
Nonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1289 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8016 times:
This really makes you wonder how many people are potentially infected. The news reported that everyone within 2 rows are to be contacted. This only deals with the flights. What about the people sitting next to him at the gates? How about the concourse commuter train in ATL? That thing is usually very crowded. The people in the planes are not the only ones at risk right now. They just happen to be the easiest ones to find. Hopefully this does not spread.
FLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7964 times:
Quoting Nonrevman (Reply 21): This really makes you wonder how many people are potentially infected.
The media also reported that this strand that he has is without a doubt fatal. This strand whatever it is named, can be caught by the infected person talking, coughing, yawning, et al. This is going to make the British Airways - KGB radiation incident seem rather miniscule. The next question is or has got to be. What was the rotation of that Air France aircraft? AF is currently using the 744 to ATL? If so wouldnt MIA, SFO, JFK, BOS, YUL, YYZ, GIG, GRU, and others around the World be at risk since they are AF 747-400 destinations?
Oddly enough, Air France has absolutely no mention of this on their website. I have to commend British Airways since they were man enough to step up and leave a rather detailed bulletin on their website regarding this matter.
777gk From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 1641 posts, RR: 20 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7315 times:
All things considered, at least he made the right decision by flying into ATL, with the CDC there!
Cyclonic From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 231 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6245 times:
My sympathies go out to the poor bloke - especially as he wouldn't have known a damn thing about how sick he really was until relatively late in proceedings.
A lot of us are carrying disease right now and have no idea, so there's no use getting angry at the guy.
Chevvy2 From France, joined Apr 2005, 23 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
Hey guys,
Are you not overreacting here. Yes, the passenger was wrong to fly without checking with the airlines regarding his disease. Can you imagine now, every traveller being asked by the airline for a full medical history before a boarding pass is issued? It is bad enough that the US require addresses for foreign travellers but can you imagine the legal mayhem of being asked to disclose to the airlines staff if you are at risk of any disease including AIDS when you book a ticket.
Lets put this case in perspective. MDR TB is increasing in most of Africa as well as some of the countries in Asia. It has arisen basically because humans are careless regarding taking their medications regularly as prescribed, because AIDS is rife and reduces immunity to diseases such as TB and because the bacteria are quick to develop resistance mechanisms to the few available drugs that the Mycobacterium is sensitive to. Also note that the infectivity of the mycobacterium is relatively low in the healthy population and has nowhere near the infectivity of the influenza virus or even the common cold.
I have yet to hear of quarantining of flights from Africa to the US or Europe as happened with SARS some years ago to Canadian flights. No, Dont blame AF or OK for carrying the patient. Rather, the patient in this case should be the culpable one, provided that he really knew that he had the disease. At least the airlines are looking into the safety and wellbeing of the passengers seated close to the patient.
Flying is a hazardous business even as a passenger
Ih8b6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 195 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5438 times:
Quoting 777gk (Reply 12): All things considered, at least he made the right decision by flying into ATL, with the CDC there!
He didn't fly into ATL. He left ATL on Air France to get married in Greece and honeymoon in Italy. Officials in Italy were contacted by the CDC who tried to quarantine him but he didn't think it was warranted. He didn't think he needed to be quarantined so he ignored them. He essentially snuck back into the US by flying from Prague to Montreal and then driving to NYC. There he was met by doctors and taken to the CDC.
Now, I know the guy wanted to get married and didn't think he had a bad strain of this TB, but the dude put awhole heck of a lot of people at risk.
DL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Summary:
-He was going to Rome for his honeymoon
-He knew he had TB but did not know when he left the US that it was the super drug-resistant kind. He probably got it in Asia.
-He had no symptoms and didn't feel sick - doctors found the TB during routine testing for something else
-He specifically asked his doctors if he could leave the US and they said he could
-The CDC contacted him in Rome and told him first not to leave, then that he had to surrender to health authorities and that he could not fly back to the US
-The CDC would not bring him back on one of their jets (this has been a recent scandal in the US; the CDC has three jets with full-time crew that are rarely used, except for personal business of various government officials. Actually aiding sick or quarantined people is one of the intended uses, but permission was denied for unknown reasons)
-He figured that his passport was flagged only by US and maybe Italian officials, so he left Italy for Prague and flew to Canada before driving to the US
-Once back in the US, he contacted CDC and voluntarily went into quarantine
-He is now (for the first time in the US in 34 years) being quarantined by force
-He did not break any laws
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1256 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
Regarding the aircraft where the Tuberculosis infected man flew on!
Here is the ACARS message for AF385 departing the 12th of may 2007 to CDG from ATL
According to the above mentioned article this guy sounds like a real piece of work, not to mention cocky. I feel bad for the guy since he has this, however he shows absolutely no regard for anyone that he may have infected. He also feels that since he is educated he should not have to be quarantined.
Khobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4136 times:
Quoting 777gk (Reply 12): All things considered, at least he made the right decision by flying into ATL, with the CDC there!
He flew to Montreal to specifically evade - he knew he was on a no-fly list.
Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 13): A lot of us are carrying disease right now and have no idea, so there's no use getting angry at the guy.
He knew he had TB.
Quoting Chevvy2 (Reply 14): Are you not overreacting here. Yes, the passenger was wrong to fly without checking with the airlines regarding his disease. Can you imagine now, every traveller being asked by the airline for a full medical history before a boarding pass is issued? It is bad enough that the US require addresses for foreign travellers but can you imagine the legal mayhem of being asked to disclose to the airlines staff if you are at risk of any disease including AIDS when you book a ticket.
Not over-reacting at all. All blood is screened for disease even though blood is in very short supply. Blood is even refused from persons of high-risk groups because they are in high-risk groups, and rightly so given that some diseases don't show up until down the road by which time a whole lot of others could be infected.
AIDS poses a risk in certain circumstances. As far as I know, it's not carried in the air and can be contained with "ordinary" care. TB, on the other hand, apparently can't. Big difference.
There's something very wrong with this whole story.
The guy knew he had TB and made travel plans specifically to evade authorities.
He "snuck back into the US because he feared treatment in Italy."
He wanted the CDC to provide a jet to fly him back to Atlanta.
The CDC almost provided a jet to retrieve him from Europe, at tax-payers' expense.
The CDC did provide a jet to fly him from New York to Atlanta - at tax-payers' expense.
He is currently in isolation in an Atlanta hospital, with an armed guard stationed outside his door.
I've a feeling there's something missing from the reports. Why the kid gloves?
Omoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3845 times:
Quoting Khobar (Reply 20): The guy knew he had TB and made travel plans specifically to evade authorities.
He "snuck back into the US because he feared treatment in Italy."
He wanted the CDC to provide a jet to fly him back to Atlanta.
The CDC almost provided a jet to retrieve him from Europe, at tax-payers' expense.
The CDC did provide a jet to fly him from New York to Atlanta - at tax-payers' expense.
He is currently in isolation in an Atlanta hospital, with an armed guard stationed outside his door.
Cause its not PC to provide more info on the patient (social stigma)
Khobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3618 times:
And why are they only concerned with the two flights? How did he get from Paris to Prague via Italy? Why no concern for anyone else? Why Prague if his honeymoon was in Italy? Prague is apparently an excellent destination for a lot of reasons, but did he go there specifically to evade capture?
GeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 869 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
What I find rather unusual, is that this guy is hardly the only one with MDR-TB running around. What was it about him that sent the gestapo into action to nail him? Generally speaking, even MDR-TB is treatable, but typically with 5-6 medications simultaneously, and at higher doses, where normally you would treat acute TB with 3 drugs for about 1 month, then cut back to 2 after you have determined the drug sensitivities of the bug. Something is missing here...
When I was in training, as a general rule of thumb, when a patient came into the ER at 2AM with a high fever and looked really sick, if he or she was Asian, the presumptive diagnosis was TB, African or Indian it was malaria, or a young guy who spoke English it was AIDS. It was a pretty good rule to work with. What they all had in common was just how very sick they all were. None of them would have been in any condition to get on a plane to go travelling around Europe for a week or two. Which leads me back to what was going on with this particular individual? My academic curiosity is peaked.
As for the general public, prudence would dictate skin testing anyone who came into contact with this guy IF he is infectious, and we don't know that for sure at this time. One of the pearls I've read is that everyone seated within 2 rows is at risk; they just won't reveal which row he was sitting in. ( Must be a politically correct privacy issue.) Bottom line is that those on the flight should be skin tested. If they test negative, retest in one month. If they remain negative, they have nothing to worry about. If they test positive initially, they were not infected by this guy, but they should still follow protocol for active treatment at this time. When the initial skin test is negative, and retesting goes positive 4-6 weeks down the line, the presumption at that point would be that they were infected by this guy, and need to be treated for MDR-TB. The drug resistance profile for this bug should be available by then to guide treatment of the recent converters, if CDC and the politically correct crew permits that information to be released. This could be a big mess... The lawyers are going to have a feeding frenzy over this one. Lots of money to be made... The good news is that Julie Gerberding,head of the CDC is an ID specialist, with an extensive HIV/Academic background, and she knows her TB backwards and forwards.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
25 Eal46859: His treatment was to have been (and may still be) an operation to cut out the TB, then several types of medication and all this to be done in Denver.
26 Khobar: What he did was irresponsible, selfish, and should at least be viewed as possibly criminal. He not only knew he had TB but that it was a drug resista
27 Hiflyer: First off this is a prime example of the inability of the medical profession to understand that the current fleet of international aircraft RECIRCULAT
28 767Lover: The rows have now been identified in media reports -- although with conflicting information, which will have everyone in the misquoted row number to
29 707lvr: This event has been a good practice run if nothing else. Interesting that the Discovery Channel is doing a program on the real scary stuff tonight. Wh
30 Brons2: This is unbelievable. They should have called the airlines as soon as they could not hand deliver that letter not to travel. And he's a lawyer. Well,
31 Hiflyer: Just realized this idiot must have been doing the trip on miles...both Air France and Czech are Skyteam...that explains the routing to Prague to get t
32 Omoo: That's so funny, so if i am Non US Black speaks English, 21 yrs old and was in china for one month what will i be tested for ?
33 FLYGUY767: Maybe that is why we have so many malpractice suits in the United States.. Afterall a "presumptive diagnosis", is not an "educated diagnosis"! -JD
34 Arrow: Schizophrenia? What the doc was getting at is the need to speed up the diagnosis based on statistical probabilities, prioritizing the lab work. It is
35 Omoo: Going to sue for what ? denied boarding due to confirmed TB status ? do airlines have a health screening status or alerts when someone checks in ? (k
36 Sebring: Some updated information http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/05/31/4223787-cp.html http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/05/31/4223734-cp.html[E
37 Trekster: Thanks for the update. Not alot in the UK news about it today Daniel
38 767Lover: In a very ironic twist, the guy's new father-in-law works in the TB lab at the CDC. There is an interview with him in the Atlanta Journal Constitution
39 Arrow: Well, he did make it to a US no-fly list -- that's why he came back through Montreal. As far as potential lawsuits go -- anyone who sat next to him,
41 Trintocan: My my my, we are getting very sensational about things here! First, a few points. TB is spread principally by coughing but unlike viruses such as the
42 767Lover: " target=_blank>http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/condi....html That's what I understand from reading the reports over the past couple of days. That's wh
43 Iflyatldl: This guy, who was clearly educated, did all this charity work, in Vietnam and wherever else, made a selfish choice period. His route of travel clearly
44 WorldTraveler: actually, the Fulton county health dept. completed the lab tests to confirm he had drug resistant TB and provided documentation to the patient only t
45 Arrow: Do you have a source on that? I saw public statements to the contrary. From the NY Times: The department instructed any border control agents who enc
47 Flybyguy: Air France, CSA, and every infected passenger should sue that blasted f*#ktard to heck and back, then afterwards he should be sent to federal prison
48 Trintocan: WorldTraveler, to be truthful, yes, confidentiality can be overriden if the public's health and well-being is at risk. Thus, some diseases are designa
49 FLYGUY767: TB and HIV/AIDS are two very different things. HIV/AIDS is caused by something totally seperate from TB. I would prefer to have someone with HIV/AIDS
50 GeorgiaAME: He's a lawyer. Need I say more? Armed guards outside of his respiratory isolation unit at Grady doesn't sound like gestapo to you? Is everyone with T
51 Flybyguy: I think even Mother Teresa would find it hard to forgive someone who had every intention of infecting others because it was more convenient than bein
52 767Lover: I agree. I can't reconcile the fact that there is all this panic and hoopla and yet the reports also say he is likely not contagious and the chance o
53 FlyDreamliner: Quite honestly, after knowing exposing all of those people to a deadly disease, I think they should refuse him treatment and let him die. On second t
54 Type-Rated: I saw him being interviewed on television this morning from Denver. He thinks he may have picked it up mountain climbing in Peru a few weeks ago. Whi
55 767Lover: Really? A friend of mine just did mountain climbing in Peru a few weeks ago too. Yikes! He is 31, not 21.
56 Type-Rated: You are right, he is 31. My local television station must have gotten it wrong.
57 Shanderawx: A note above mentions this as MDR-TB, multiply drug resistant, not true, it is XDR-TB, extremely drug resistant, a signficiant difference, both in eff
58 WorldTraveler: the public doesn't need to know the name but law enforcement and the federal no-fly list is enough to keep a person at home if doctors say that is wh
59 FLYGUY767: Odds are the tape is to cover his rear end. I am thinking that if his doctor told him it was okay to travel prior to the wedding, he knew the doctor
60 Coleplane: This guy has this form of TB, has a relative that works at the CDC, and he's going abroad? C'mon, some thing isn't sitting right with me.
61 Type-Rated: Well, Homeland Security has demonstrated that they can't keep out even ONE person with an infectious disease from entering the country. Just think wha
62 767Lover: The doctors in Denver are quoted today as saying that Speaker is "about as noninfectious as you can be" and that basically this incident is being way
63 FLYGUY767: The Doctors in Denver have an issue on their hands. Those very same Doctors said that he would have to be isolated for months, and now they are chang
64 Khobar: The Gestapo was the secret police of Nazi Germany whose role was to "investigate" and combat "all tendencies dangerous to the State." They investigat
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 724 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25107 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7523 posts, 
, 1641 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 231 posts, 
From France, joined Apr 2005, 23 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Printer friendly format 
