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UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO  
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

I was just helping a friend book some flights and found this

Leave – Wed 12 Sep 2007
United
Flight 6481 Departs: 10:45a
Los Angeles (LAX) Arrives: 3:45p
Mid- Continent (ICT)
Coach | Fare code: WE21N3NX | Aircraft: Canadair Regional Jet 700 | 3h 00m | 1199 miles | many seats remain

Return – Mon 17 Sep 2007
United
Flight 6480 Departs: 4:20p
Mid- Continent (ICT) Arrives: 5:22p
Los Angeles (LAX)
Coach | Fare code: WE21N3NX | Aircraft: Canadair Regional Jet 700 | 3h 02m | 1199 miles | many seats remain

Looks like UA is joining the mix with DL as previously discussed here RE: DL To Start LAX-ICT (by CALeeIII May 20 2007 in Civil Aviation) !

-m



[Edited 2007-05-30 02:19:28]

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

This is a good way to insure both carriers will absolutely tank on the route.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

-JD


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Can you say "overcapacity?" I can... from zero to 120 seats a day in that market. Ouch.

This, I suppose, is the first warning shot from UAL. They're not going to let the LAX hublet go undefended.

Flight begins Sept. 5.

[Edited 2007-05-30 02:26:47]


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

Until both carriers lose their shorts on the route, and both pull out. Then ICT is left with a repuation of "not being able to support an LAX flight"



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

-JD

No, it isn't. Too much capacity on too thin a route.



a.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Big swing at Delta here.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineDanairbus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

What are the O&D numbers on ICT-LAX?

User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

Shame that this ensures both carriers are screwed for this route. Hey, theres no competition for LAX nonstops in AMA...*hint hint*



Yeah right  Wink



Shannon.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

I took it as DL trying to feed into some West routes (IE some of the new Mexico flying) that I think leave mid afternoon?

and UA as feeding south pacific star flights

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
Big swing at Delta here.

Still not sure, at this point, why DL is basing a big part of their post-bankrupty success plan on a getting int a pissing match with UA, AA, WN etc at LAX.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
No, it isn't. Too much capacity on too thin a route

You know a number of people said that when new routes were launched such as SAT-SMF, SAT-ONT, SAN-TUL, SAN-OMA, COS-SMF, GEG-ONT, all by a certain upstart airline just about a month or so ago. And now look at what has happened!  laughing 

http://xjet.com/menu/whyxjet/routemap.htm

In addition the Wichita and surrounding area has a population of 618,641 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita%2C_Kansas


-JD


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):

In addition the Wichita and surrounding area has a population of 618,641 people.

How is that a large population? Tampa has 2.7M people, and they only have two daily flights to LAX.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
You know a number of people said that when new routes were launched such as SAT-SMF, SAT-ONT, SAN-TUL, SAN-OMA, COS-SMF, GEG-ONT, all by a certain upstart airline just about a month or so ago. And now look at what has happened! laughing

http://xjet.com/menu/whyxjet/routemap.htm

What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

[Edited 2007-05-30 02:44:03]


a.
User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):

What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

exactly what i was wondering  scratchchin 


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

Well before everyone jumps on DL... is this one of the Expressjet "at risk" routes they are running for DL at LAX?


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8892 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
Well before everyone jumps on DL... is this one of the Expressjet "at risk" routes they are running for DL at LAX?

Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4997 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

There was a topic a number of days ago here on airliners. Feel free to read the part about the routes from SMF, SAN, and ONT and their respectful routes and loads.

XJet In SAN (by WhatUsaid May 22 2007 in Civil Aviation)

-JD


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

 checkmark  Correct. Starts July 1st with a EMB145.

UA's service begins Sept 5th using CRJ700s featuring both first class and E+.
This adds to UA's similar service to OKC which commenced summer 2006 and been fairly successful from what I understand.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 893 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 3):

This, I suppose, is the first warning shot from UAL. They're not going to let the LAX hublet go undefended.

Flight begins Sept. 5.

 checkmark  If DL expects to make LAX its newest international ga

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

Correct, XE is bearing the costs and losses associated with the recent LAX routes. However, don't expect UA to sit back and watch DL intrude in their hub - witness the recent LAX-HKG and LAX-ICT adds.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 1):
This is a good way to insure both carriers will absolutely tank on the route.

I'd have to give the advantage to UA as they have more connections in LAX than DL, though DL is growing


User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

The way I read it, only eight of ExpressJets planes will be operated at risk. The other 10 will be operated by under a different agreement.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

ICT-LAX O&D for 3Q06 was 85 total (42.5 each way).

ICT-BUR = less than 10 total
ICT-ONT = 19 total
ICT-SNA = 34 total

surely not a robust amount of traffic IMO...


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7493 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

Well let the pissing contest begin.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 18):
Correct, XE is bearing the costs and losses associated with the recent LAX routes. However, don't expect UA to sit back and watch DL intrude in their hub - witness the recent LAX-HKG and LAX-ICT adds.

It is incredably appearant that UA is trying to beef up its precense at LAX just because DL is tying to build its precence there. I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it. Same goes with LAX-ICT. My worry is that they are going to go crazy on certain makets and flood them with overcapacity and then they both shut down.

My money is on UA simply because they already have a very loyal following here, much larger than DL. But I wish DL the best of luck. UA is appearantly ready to fight.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
Big swing at Delta here.

Big swing? More like a bunt...ATL-LAX would've been a big swing.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 10):
Still not sure, at this point, why DL is basing a big part of their post-bankrupty success plan on a getting int a pissing match with UA, AA, WN etc at LAX.

No airline has a lock on LAX...LAX is a huge market...DL has a large number of FF accounts in southern CA...a lot of DL's FFs in other markets go to southern CA...DL doesn't have a convenient way of transfering passengers from the western half of the U.S. to Mexico/Pacific markets (SLC is not an option due to low O&D)...most of DL's new service into LAX is through a Connection carrier...DL has available gate space they would like to retain...oh, and the airline industry is highly competitive, so let the pissing begin...

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
It is incredably appearant that UA is trying to beef up its precense at LAX just because DL is tying to build its precence there. I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it.

Agree!


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it

If not for the IAD-PEK, LAX-HKG was slatted to start during the first half of '06. With the DOT China award its start up had to be postponed as the fleet was juggled further in-time for the winter schedule.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 AADC10 : It may be that UAX has the flight partially to serve the UA benefits processing office in Wichita.
26 LAXdude1023 : UA always trips me out with SFO and LAX. There are certain markets that LAX has flights to that SFO does not. MSY, ICT, OKC, etc. SFO is their prefere
27 AznCSA4QF744ER : That was quick, we only got notice of that service a few days ago. UAX needs LAX-AUS route. LAXOKC as been doing very well, rumor has it's going doubl
28 FreequentFlier : Pretty simple actually, look at the geography of OKC, MSY and ICT - they're all in the south and thus don't steal much traffic that would be flowing
29 DL777LAX : Interesting move on UA's part. The Los Angeles area is a large and diverse region, and several people are loyal to several different airlines. Lets se
30 FreequentFlier : Well according to another topic, it looks like DL added LAX-OKC nonstop now too to compete against UA's existing serivce. Wonder how UA will respond,
31 Post contains images HVNandrew : Maybe now UA will start LAX-ATL service... and DL will stick an OH CRJ on ORD-LAX again.
32 DL777LAX : Like I said, let the bloodbath begin. This is DL reacting to UA's announcement to LAX-ICT. DL and UA will not be friendly with each other, to say the
33 HVNandrew : OH actually flew ORD-LAX, I believe with a CR7, back in 2000.
34 Post contains images UnitedTristar : I don't think so! This has not been a DL route for at least the last 25 years -m [Edited 2007-06-01 00:55:50]
35 WorldTraveler : yes no.... the former ASA LAX-Mexico routes and the domestic feed to support them (using the same aircraft) are "at risk" for DL. The rest which have
36 LAXdude1023 : Dont wouldnt bet money on it. One thing that UA does have is a much larger FF loyalty in LA. DL definately does not. No doubt that DL will put up a f
37 LAXdude1023 : Sorry, Gramactical error. I meant to say Dont bet money on it.
38 AznCSA4QF744ER : Comair flew that route back when? Hummm, strange I thought the CR7 didn’t enter revenue service until after 2002. I’m pretty sure a CR2 can fly O
39 LAXdude1023 : This might not be bad if UA could time the flight to coencide with its SYD flights.
40 FLYGUY767 : This is going to play out very interesting in the long run. There have been a lot of people pissed off over the recent years with United Airlines and
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