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Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others  
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14990 times:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=9063

Some interesting snippets...

He said Airbus has 100 firm orders for the original-design A350 and that customers must either cancel or transfer to XWBs by year end. "At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

He said Airbus is "very close" to finalizing an MOU with Singapore Airlines for an XWB order, which was disclosed previously (ATWOnline, Feb. 8), and that there are "other [agreements] that haven't been announced."


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123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12466 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14690 times:

Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

Theoretically, the A350XWB is more expensive than the original A350 (which was really just a warmed over A330), in practice - given the discounts being offered by Airbus for the new A350XWB, the airlines will probably end up not having to pay much - if any - more?


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14655 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

They aren't void until the moment Airbus misses the first delivery date specified in the contract, and even then we don't know the wording of the contract.

There was a big thread on this a few weeks back if you are interested.

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
He said Airbus is "very close" to finalizing an MOU with Singapore Airlines for an XWB order, which was disclosed previously (ATWOnline, Feb. 8), and that there are "other [agreements] that haven't been announced."

Another MoU for SIA? Interesting, but I hope this time a firm order closely follows it!


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6914 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14487 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
100 firm orders for the original-design A350

OK, if my memory hasn't let me down we have...

Air Europa 10
Bangkok 6
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
TAM 10
TAP 10
US 20
Yemenia 6

(I've taken out Finnair, SQ and Qatar.)

ALFACO 12
CIT 5
GECAS 10
ILFC 16

That's 113 though I believe that not all of these were firmed up.

So which ones morph into XWB orders? TAP, for sure. TAM, probably. Kingfisher seems likely. US is rumoured to be 'on'. And I'm sure leasing companies will be there.

What about the others?


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14429 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Intersting given the US Airways rumours, that they are about to sign for the 787. Those rumours are contradictary anyway.

I also found it interesting that they are still negotiating with GE. I actually don't understand what is holding GE up for the
-800 and -900, as they already signed up for the previous -800 and -900. The reason for their hesitation on the -1000 is well known by now. But anyway a nice win for RR on the QR contract. Aren't the a380 of QR powered by EA? Any chance they will cancel that and go with RR for commonality?



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User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6914 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14364 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
I actually don't understand what is holding GE up for the -800 and -900, as they already signed up for the previous -800 and -900.

Well, the XWB is a bigger plane and GE need to redesign the GEnx accordingly. They must be deciding whether or not it'll be worth it. My guess is that it will be (so they will get on board) but only powering two (or one?!) of the three models puts them at an immediate disadvantage (see the QR RR order) so they have to factor that in too.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Aren't the a380 of QR powered by EA?

No. They haven't made an engine selection yet.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Any chance they will cancel that and go with RR for commonality?

N/A. But I daresay an order for RR on the A350 won't hurt Derby's chances of getting on the A380 too.  Smile


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14220 times:

Leahy : "We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows — all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

An advance of being second I guess.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...technology/2003728878_qatar31.html



User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14220 times:
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Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Very interesting given the situation at US. scratchchin 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14152 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
bigger windows

Bigger than the 787 or than the 777?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
a wider cabin

I assume since he included this in his quote he means the 787? It'll be interesting to see the a350 windows then!



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13779 times:

The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide. In this image you can just see how wide Airbus want them to be on the XWB.
Big version: Width: 450 Height: 161 File size: 14kb
3-3-3 seating on the A350XWB


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6914 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13733 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
3-3-3 seating on the A350XWB

Not sure I go along with the colours... (With all due respect to my Irish friend who posted it!)

And not sure you'd get much AVOD (or even a folding tray!) in those seats!

But check out those windows! Not quite Vickers Viscount but wow!


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13708 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
And not sure you'd get much AVOD (or even a folding tray!) in those seats!

The first question that came to my mind on viewing that picture was 'so, wheres the life jackets?', and the second one was 'which designer is stuck in the 60s?!'  Smile


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13660 times:
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Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
'which designer is stuck in the 60s?!'

Haven't you heard? Retro is in!  smile 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13635 times:

I'm not a big fan of the colours myself the green would suit Aer Lingus (maybe EI is an unannounced agreement) but those pillows, looks more like giant marshmallows  

The airlines can change the seats but those windows are there to stay, it makes no difference to airlines buying it but as passengers it's good to see.


[Edited 2007-05-31 13:51:32]

User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13476 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
OK, if my memory hasn't let me down we have...

Air Europa 10
Bangkok 6
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
TAM 10
TAP 10
US 20
Yemenia 6

(I've taken out Finnair, SQ and Qatar.)

ALFACO 12
CIT 5
GECAS 10
ILFC 16

That's 113 though I believe that not all of these were firmed up.

I believe there are 93 more orders for previous A350 version that have been firmed up but haven't been converted to the A350XWB. Additionally there are 164 pending orders for all versions combined. Here are the firm orders for previous versions...

TAP (A358) x 8, (A359) x 4
TAM (A359) x 10
US Airways (A358) x 20
Kingfisher (A358) x 5
Air Europa (A358) x 10
ALAFCO (A358) x 12
CIT (A358) x 5
Eurofly (A358) x 3
ILFC (A358) x 8, (A359) x 8

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
So which ones morph into XWB orders? TAP, for sure. TAM, probably. Kingfisher seems likely. US is rumoured to be 'on'. And I'm sure leasing companies will be there.

What about the others?

Air Europa has been offered 787s, a huge topic on that has appeared here at that time, but I suppose all of the airlines I listed have been offered 787 at some point. Eurofly is the other airline you didn't mention. Looking at the list I can understand why Mr. Leahy said "At this point it looks like they'll all be converted".

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Very interesting given the situation at US.

If US Airways has already decided and is just waiting for the right time to announce it, Mr. Leahy's quote seems very telling indeed.



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User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8371 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13044 times:
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Is this one of those sensational deals just to make the program impressive or is it a real order ? Where is Qatar going to fly so many A350's. Last years they ordered 20 777 plus all their A330's, so Qatar is really in expansion mode. The only old planes are the A330's. They have some A340-600 too, I know they are flying Washington DC using an A346 but to JFK they are flying an A330 via Geneva, why? JFK should be nonstop, it sounds like the IAD flight is just for Qatar's diplomatic corp.

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12923 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide. In this image you can just see how wide Airbus want them to be on the XWB.

A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777. They are however a couple of inches wider than on the 777, ence the "bigger" window. So how much wider or longer will the XWB's windows be? And does it really matter?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12859 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
So how much wider or longer will the XWB's windows be? And does it really matter?

Well I like to stare.. I think the MD11 windows are also large & at the right height on top of that.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6914 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12651 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
The only old planes are the A330's.

Yeah, really 'old'. Why, the oldest is nearly 5!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
They have some A340-600 too

Which are barely a year old!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
Where is Qatar going to fly so many A350's

Where do Delta (to pick an airline more or less at random) fly 100+ 767s? Qatar have more of the world's population within flying range of Doha than Delta do from Atlanta.


User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12651 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

Theoretically, the A350XWB is more expensive than the original A350 (which was really just a warmed over A330), in practice - given the discounts being offered by Airbus for the new A350XWB, the airlines will probably end up not having to pay much - if any - more?

The A350XWB is really, not theoretically, costwise much more expensive. If sold at the original price, this imply a huge discount. And do you think new customers will accept, at least in the initial 1 or 2 yeas, to pay much more then the original ones ??

And this, being the financial situation as we see today, would not help in the future !

aminobwana


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12626 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777.

Can you post the thread? I read a few months back someplace on line that the 787 windows were 18" x 10.5" which is about three inches longer than the 777 window. So what's the measurement of the 787 and 350 and 777 windows?


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12331 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Very interesting given the situation at US.

I keep my fingers crossed for US staying with A350 !!!!!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12331 times:

Quoting Moo (Reply 2):
Another MoU for SIA? Interesting, but I hope this time a firm order closely follows it!

I think he is referring to the existing one, so not an additional order from SIA.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Interesting given the US Airways rumours, that they are about to sign for the 787. Those rumours are contradictary anyway.

The US rumors are floating from one to the other and back again. I think its best to treat the US rumors as we did the SU rumors (ie lightly, until something is actually announced).

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
Is this one of those sensational deals just to make the program impressive or is it a real order ?

Is that a rhetorical question? I cant think of a suitable answer for it  Wink

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
And do you think new customers will accept, at least in the initial 1 or 2 yeas, to pay much more then the original ones ??

While its impossible to comment without seeing contracts, the existing customers have a choice to either convert or move on. Talk is cheap, airlines can easily demand the original price, but they cant easily receive the original price.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777.

Can you post the thread? I read a few months back someplace on line that the 787 windows were 18" x 10.5" which is about three inches longer than the 777 window.

Weren't they advertised as being 50% larger than existing windows? The production version does indeed appear to have smaller windows than the ones shown in publicity images.


User currently offlineCygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11834 times:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
The A350XWB is really, not theoretically, costwise much more expensive. If sold at the original price, this imply a huge discount.

Ah, didn't take you long to show up in this thread as well. Since you've made this claim, time for some facts:

- What is the cost of one original design A350?
- What is the cost of one A350XWB?



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineCygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11776 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
customers must either cancel or transfer to XWBs by year end

Wow, that's interesting. Looks like they've given existing customers an ultimatum. This certainly shows confidence, and regardless of which way it goes, it will be fabulous if they can remove the original A350 liability from their books and start 2008 fresh, clean from the extraordinary charges related A380 compensation and the A350 liability!

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide

I don't really get the benefit of big windows. Sure, as a passenger it will be nice, but doesn't it add additional weight? I'd think the window material is significantly heavier than the fuselage?



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
25 Semobeila : Well, that still does not mean Airbus isn't earning money with selling the A350XWB at original A350 prices...
26 Shamrock350 : Airbus haven't said how big the windows will be however, I have a small booklet about the A350XWB which says, "Panoramic windows, widest in the indus
27 Cricket : When Leahy was in India on Kingfisher's invite he mentioned that Kingfisher (IT) would switch their A358 orders over to the XWB.
28 SparkingWave : Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A350 still narrower than the B777, the plane it's really competing with? SparkingWave ~~~
29 Stitch : It competes with both, as well as replacing the A330 and A340 - a real "Jack of all Trades" plane.
30 EA772LR : I absolutely love the way the A350XWB looks. I hope they stick to that look. However, is Airbus planning on sticking with their composite panels or wi
31 Jimyvr : Didn't they quietly dropped A350 and ordered 787 instead?
32 Bobski : Just so I understand. There are 100 orders roughly for the original A350 that Airbus expect to be converted to the XWB. With QT's order for 80 on top,
33 Bringiton : Well , i have tried asking this question before but no one replied . Does the MTOW and/or PAX of the A350-800 more in the league of the 788 then it i
34 Scbriml : There have been several rumours that Airbus would switch to barrels (all seeming to originate at ATW). As recently as yesterday, this was denied by J
35 SunriseValley : In my view, no. Wing mounted camera's could supply a superior panorama via the seat back video system.
36 Post contains images RedFlyer : I notice "better, lower cost maintenance" was not mentioned. An advantage of the barrel approach to construction. An advantage when your final design
37 CygnusChicago : The A358 is the equivalent of the 789. A358: 270 - 312 PAX; 540,000 lbs MTOW; 8,500 nm 789: 250 - 290 PAX; 540,000 lbs MTOW; 8,500 nm Those are the f
38 Bringiton : According to WIKI ( i know not totally reliable ) 787-9 seats 263 in 3 class , whereas the 350-8 seats 270 . Both fly equal distance , and both have s
39 SEPilot : This has to be examined, not just accepted on face value. From what I have learned on other threads in Tech/Ops and here, a longer wing gives greater
40 NYC777 : One thing that John Leahy lacks is respect for the competition and if you don't have respect for the competition you get into trouble. It's already ha
41 CHRISBA777ER : Get over yourself - do you realise how pompous that sounds? He's a salesman - thats what he does. Just because he isnt a Boeing cheerleader like you
42 Manni : No, they didn't. Or atleast no reliable source ever wrote or mentioned that. Only the 'rumour makers' on this and other forums speculated that this m
43 Airbazar : Here it is. See reply 37: 787 Assembly Floor Pictures http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3419009/1/#1
44 Post contains images Revelation : Yes, and at this point in the design phase, the 787 had the pointy nose and the shark fin tail. You've seen what marketing wants, let's see what engi
45 Shamrock350 : Totally agree but if Boeing can keep keep the windows I should hope Airbus can. It wont sway airlines to order the A350 but it's just an added bonus
46 Boeing7E7 : The 787-9 seat count of 263 assumes 2+4+2 in coach, with 3+3+3 the -9 seats 280 with less range (about 7,000 vs. 8,500 with 263). The 350-8 you give
47 Kaitak : These, as I understand from Manni's post above, are for the OLD A350; has any lessor firmed up orders for the NEW A350 (XWB)? I thought ALAFCO had? I
48 Scott0305 : Slightly off topic but I read on Airbus' website that the 350XWB wing sweep will be 35 degrees. That is more then even the 380 at 33.5 and way more th
49 A342 : I assume you mean an 18' seat, because the 787 has 17.2' in 3-3-3, and the A350XWB is wider.
50 SEPilot : I would expect leasing companies to be even more concerned with the maintenance issues of panels vs. barrels than the airlines, as they will have tho
51 Zvezda : It could mean either. I think you're probably right that it more likely means that SQ will firm their MoU into an order. However, they might just rep
52 Kaitak : Very interesting point, SEPilot; I hadn't thought of that. I know many airlines lease aircraft for around 7 yrs, which is obviously much less than the
53 Dougloid : To paraphrase South Pacific, What ain't we got? We ain't got planes.
54 SEPilot : I would rephrase that; we ain't got orders.
55 Shenzhen : Generally speaking, an airplane leased long term would be returned with the airframe zero houred, If the airframe is not zero houred and engines over
56 Stitch : I assume you mean an 18' seat, because the 787 has 17.2' in 3-3-3, and the A350XWB is wider. Per the Airbus A350XWB presentation, in 3-3-3 seating th
57 NYC777 : Call me what you will but you can still mask the fact that it is arrogance is what got Airbus into trouble, arrogance and lack of respect for Boeing
58 SEPilot : I was not aware of that; thanks for the info. This does change the picture as to whether the A350 might be more of a disadvantage to lease companies,
59 FlyDreamliner : I would like to point out that Leahy said those same words about A330-lite, A350 mk. 1 and and A350 mk. 2, and so far it hasn't been true yet. If the
60 A342 : Please enlighten me, I haven't seen this presentation yet. But if the A350 has a 17.5" seat in 3-3-3 config, how would it be possible to fit 10-abrea
61 Bringiton : Mostly for charters !
62 A342 : Sure, but you can't reduce seat width even more! How wide are the seats on those 8-abreast 767s?
63 Scbriml : Has Airbus actually said this, or was it just part of the "ATW conspiracy"?
64 Post contains links and images A342 : Quoting Scbriml (Reply 63): Has Airbus actually said this, or was it just part of the "ATW conspiracy"? So ATW's report is conspiracy? Sorry, didn't k
65 CHRISBA777ER : Arrogance yes, I'd go along with that to a point, but then Airbus were the leading airliner producer a few years back so a little bit of arrogance is
66 Kaneporta1 : I highly doubt that 17 extra passengers can reduce the 787 range by 1500nm. If that was true, a 787-10 with same MTOW as the -9 and ability to carry
67 Areopagus : And even better, check out how vertical the cabin walls are! To me, that is huge! You got it, it's for the passengers' benefit at a price in weight.
68 Scbriml : Ah, OK. Thanks.
69 Stitch : I believe it was the presentation given at the launch of the A350XWB. It is titled "Taking the Lead" and the page in question is page 15. Also, if yo
70 A342 : Ok, thanks.
71 Post contains images Keesje : It is truth side wall shapes made a difference at different height for the passenger. In this specific situation however, the A350XWB vs 787 cabin wi
72 HughesAirwest : Oh, yeah sure. Lets be real, the A350 is no more a jack of all trades than the T7 which competes with the A333 and the A340 family.
73 Airbazar : But who's decision is it to approved a reduced maintenace schedule? Is it the manufacturer, the airline, or the federal body that regulates airline s
74 FlyDreamliner : Are you going with external or internal fuselage width on this? Excuse my reluctance to believe Airbus marketing material with absolute faith. My apo
75 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Did you really just say the A380 is trouncing its competitors? Wow, let's make some additional outrageous comments like how the 717-200 has blown the
76 CHRISBA777ER : Its VLA competitor? I think its fair to say the A380 is troucing the 747-8I yes - granted they are not direct competitors but the jumbo is as close a
77 DfwRevolution : Because it is a disingenuous statement. The A380 orders have been dismal despite record orders for nearly every other wide body in production, and th
78 Keesje : In the passenger VLA business 160 A380 vs 20 748i could legaly called trouncing. I guess fall back scenarios will be on the table in Chicago if BA, C
79 CHRISBA777ER : Oh come on Dallas i expect better from you. From some spotty 13 year old armchair CEO fine, but not from you mate. It has long been a standard argumen
80 Dhefty : What do you mean by "absolutely dominant"? Do you mean installed base of narrow-bodies? No, probably not, because Boeing has a wide lead considering
81 NYC777 : A company run by the Euro govt. bureaucrats. Airbus is forever tied to them and will not be able to implement the hard decisions that need to be made
82 CHRISBA777ER : The A320 series has outsold the 737 since it came out has it not? I'll admit I dont have the numbers handy, but I've always understood that to be the
83 PM : Er, yes, and that was what my post was about. (You did read my post, didn't you?)
84 Post contains images Keesje : I think composite structures around the windows created the weight reduction to allow bigger windows. There is not really an increase because no refe
85 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Do you have a quote for this perceived thinking? With all due respect, Airbus are not complete numpties (although some decisions can seem that way so
86 SEPilot : The A320 was the dominant narrowbody until the 737NG came out; since then any reasonable assessment has to be that they have been close to equal, wit
87 Dhefty : Thank you for your admission. It's a common misconception on A.net that the A320 has a huge lead over the 737. It's just not true. Since 1984 when th
88 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : I'll leave you to argue this one with Keesje - I've already apologised for overstating things a bit. Easy mistake to make though - My office faces ou
89 FlyDreamliner : Does it really make a difference what the customer uses the aircraft for? Just counting pax frames is both deceptive and pointless. In terms of total
90 Racercoup : "He's a salesman - thats what he does. Just because he isnt a Boeing cheerleader like you doesnt mean he is a complete buffoon - and FYI i'll be he ha
91 Post contains images Zvezda : Does anyone else see the rank hypocrisy here? Since Airbus began taking WhaleJet orders (beginning 2000), it has been outsold by the JumboJet (202 to
92 Manni : I'm not disagreeing with the post you quoted, but it isn't mine. Please edit it while you still can. Thanks.
93 Post contains links Jdevora : IIRC one of the features introduced with the A350 XWB was an non-round design, because the cargo haul is just fine with the A330 width. I saw a few p
94 Boeing7E7 : Nope. 17.5 in 3+3+3 and 19.75 in 2+4+2. Conspiracy. No way you get 10 across in that thing. I suppose you'll have to wait for the public charts then.
95 Post contains images Aircellist : Do you ever invite fellow A.netters to share a coffee at your ofice???
96 Post contains links Astuteman : It is? The only presentations I've ever seen show the A350-XWB to be "ovoid", just like the 787. Try this one........ http://www.flightglobal.com/art
97 Post contains images Iwok : Wrong. They are taller than the T7, but the same width. Leahy says a lot, most of which is laughable... And yet its lighter, carries more and uses le
98 Post contains images Jacobin777 : A330F.....
99 Post contains images Dank : If I recall correctly, the bottom lobe shares a common cross-section with the 330/340/original 350, and the top is wider. This has the benefit of mai
100 Zvezda : The firing of Forgeard was an excellent decision.
101 Flying-Tiger : Offering basically the whole family for executive use, especially the launch of the A318 Elite has been very positive, and sales for the A340-500/600
102 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : All the time - my pleasure. Next time any of you are in the City of London, please feel free to PM me and we'll have coffee.
103 SEPilot : Going to barrels instead of panels on the A350-oops, sorry, they didn't do that.
104 Revelation : Getting everyone to use the same version of CATIA? Unfortunately the decision came about two years too late. Actually, accepting Strieff's resignatio
105 SEPilot : I've been thinking about your observation; it goes to show how our perceptions can be colored by a small piece of the puzzle. The A320 certainly seem
106 SunriseValley : In the Orders forum it was reported that Airbus were going with panels because of time, cost and the risk of litigation.
107 Post contains links Ahab : I somewhat do not agree with the notion that airbus could not have a composite barrel sectioned A350 with an EIS of 2013. From the get go, a plain and
108 Dougloid : On the subject of the wisdom of good salesmen-and there is much to learn, for those of us who are not in the trade. I used to be in the auto parts tr
109 SEPilot : Thanks for the link; I have been saying on this forum that if I were Boeing I would take this approach, and Mike Bair as said just about what I would
110 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Interesting point - was wondering this myself earlier. OTTOMH - here are the LHR operators: A32X Family Aer Lingus BA Air France Lufthansa Turkish Au
111 Airbazar : Well, fair enough but I like to look at it this way: How many of those orders since 1984 were from new operators of the type (argument often uses aga
112 Ahab : No problem. I think when you look at the much, much bigger picture here, Boeing’s “holy grail” process of barrels is priceless. I have no infor
113 Ken777 : Actually, hiring Strieff in the first place was just as good a decision - he came in & woke a lot of people up, plus got Power 8 started. While he ma
114 Post contains images Keesje : I think the composite barrel construction technology has matured over the last 20 yrs, with laboratories & industry making many prototypes, sub assem
115 Post contains images Virgin747LGW : after reading posts on this site for a few years now i am astounded by the levels of hypocrisy by both A and B cheeleaders, however my favourite has
116 SEPilot : I never thought they did, which is one reason that I am confident that Airbus can develop their own. But the issue is that the specific technology th
117 Zvezda : I believe it has more to do with risk than with time and money per se. Airbus need to take a conservative approach with the A350. If that means Airbu
118 SEPilot : So far they aren't even getting that, and from what we have been seeing here it's questionable whether they're getting profitable prices. One of the
119 Post contains links and images Keesje : I don't know which specific technology you are thinking off, but e.g. the composites fuselage technology is already in production for the Hawker Prem
120 CygnusChicago : Again, how much lower cost? I keep hearing you and other posters saying "it's cheaper", etc. But no one has provided any facts whatsoever on the cost
121 Stitch : Boeing, perhaps, with the 737NG, but that is depending on how you look at the numbers: A320 Program Launch: 1982 A320 Certification: 1988 A320 First
122 Post contains images Bringiton : This sounds very similar to this - 'Leahy ... said [Airbus] has decided to move ahead with the A350 after nine months of consultations with customers
123 SEPilot : I have no question that Airbus has plenty of experience with CFRP-nor with the fact that they started using it earlier and more extensively on airlin
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