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747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester  
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9186 times:

Hi guys

This morning at around 0850 fellow netter Alex spotted a 747 overflying Manchester and dumping fuel from one wing tip. It was a very clear day, and looked like a BA 747. However once getting into work, there were no diverts today, so it could not of been BA. There is a picture, but will not post it here as its not the best quality, and will let alex do that himself

Anyone hazard a guess as to what it is

Dan

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

Are you sure it was fuel...?? Normally fuel is dumped out of both tanks at the same time. Could have been just condensation......

[Edited 2007-05-31 23:20:00]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9071 times:

From one wing, and just the tip, not the engine or anywhere else

PM me your address and will email the picture


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8587 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 2):
PM me your address and will email the picture

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8670 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8564 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Please do so.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineJamesbaldwyn From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Me too.

Thanks


User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Please do so.

and its kind of hard to tell without the pic.



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/OPNLguy/DSC00469.jpg

User currently offlineRaventom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

Interesting... whereabouts over Manchester?


I love the smell of burnt kerosene!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinePYP757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Isn't it a bit strange that a plane would be allowed to dump fuel so close to a major city? I don't know anything about rules regulating fuel dumping, but I always thought this would be done over water or less populated areas.

User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting PYP757 (Reply 9):
Isn't it a bit strange that a plane would be allowed to dump fuel so close to a major city? I don't know anything about rules regulating fuel dumping, but I always thought this would be done over water or less populated areas.

The fuel will evaporate well before it would reach the ground.


User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3207 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Could have been the Great Wall cargo? That has the blue painted belly. Seems rather high though for the great wall to be descending or having just taken off.

Presuming it was a BA aircraft... Is it possible that the aircraft was 'too' heavy and was struggling to climb (if heading North) or would be descending too quickly? Hence the fuel dump?

Just my opinions and ideas.



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
Presuming it was a BA aircraft... Is it possible that the aircraft was 'too' heavy and was struggling to climb (if heading North) or would be descending too quickly? Hence the fuel dump?

eh? Pilots aren't guesstimating their fuel and payloads. No plane takes off with too much fuel to fly. For one thing, it'd crash just after takeoff - that's when margins are slimmest, not after gaining speed and altitude. Anyway, fuel and payload are an exact science - they're fairly simple calculations, and are usually handled these days by the FMC (I don't know what model 747 this is, so not sure if it has an engineer or not).

It would be a huge waste of money - not to mention a big environmental no-no - for pilots to be taking off thinking "maybe we've got too much fuel, but eh, we'll just dump some if we have to." Ensuring the proper fuel load and takeoff weight is SOP at every airline (cargo and pax) before taxi; it has to be, for safety reasons.

btw, UA also has blue bellies on their 747 (old c/s). Not sure who else does.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3207 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 12):
Pilots aren't guesstimating their fuel and payloads. No plane takes off with too much fuel to fly. For one thing, it'd crash just after takeoff - that's when margins are slimmest, not after gaining speed and altitude. Anyway, fuel and payload are an exact science - they're fairly simple calculations, and are usually handled these days by the FMC (I don't know what model 747 this is, so not sure if it has an engineer or not).

Oh please, I'm no pilot or engineer, I'm simply suggesting logical explanations. I'm not saying that Pilots estimate their fuel loads. I was merely imagining if they had strong tailwinds and had an extremely quick crossing. Like I said in my post... They were my opinions and ideas, I wasn't asking for an explanation of a transatlantic flight  Yeah sure



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

It certainly looks like a fuel dump. Any atmospheric phenomenon regarding engines/flaps/etc. would most likely be happinging on both sides of the aircraft.

I'm not 100% sure though, as it doesn't make sense that the aircraft would only dump fuel from on side of the plane.

Possibly could be an engine out?

Anyway, dumping fuel at altitude is not dangerous. It does not fall down like rain fellas. Because the aircraft travels at such high speeds, the biggest droplets would be a mere mist. Secondly, it's fuel, like alcohol, it evaporates rather quickly.

UAL


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

If we could figure out what airline, or even what airport the flight departed from, with a little research (of which I'm not willing to do, but someone might) you will find your answer, or at least part of it.

UAL


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

It was not BA, checked that when got to work
It was over central Manchester, I heard the plane,from my apartment, and alex was outside the building near enough.

It could of been the cargo airline, but have looked at Ringway and not seen anything noted, and im sure they dont fly around 0850??

Can anyone help


User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0099894/M/

I understand this photo was taken in the UK, and so the humidity would not be such a factor but could this be a cause?

This is the only thing I can think of that would result in fuel being dumped from one wing only?  Yeah sure

Alex


User currently offlineRonglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

The last time I was on a trip, we took off from Tokyo, headed for Detroit. They dumped fuel (I think that's what was going on - see photo) for about 3 minutes after reaching the initial cruising altitude. I couldn't figure that out and was worried for awhile. We just kept on going though and nothing was said.


Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 30kb
Dumping Fuel


User currently offlineSevenforeseven From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tannks is nothing but that. REST ASSURED THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

[Edited 2007-06-01 23:10:13]

User currently offlineSevenforeseven From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Forgot to say the fuel jettision outlets are way inboard from the wing tips. PLEASE PLEASE MORE INTERESTING AND FACTUAL INFORMATION NOT JUST "HEY LOOK WHAT I SAW."

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 19):
What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tanks is nothing but that. REST ASSURED THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

Sounds reasonable. Sometimes fuelers don't fuel the wing tanks exactly equally, and the aircraft flight manual (AFM) permits a certain amount of lateral fuel imbalance. Accordingly, it's possible that only one tank could be be affected, and not both as some might expect.


User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 19):
What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tannks is nothing but that

JAL? Where did you get that from? If I have to guess it would be NWA's 747 doing NRT-DTW leg. I don't recall JAL going to Detroit on regular scheduled service, at least not in the last 8-9 years. Please, factual information, not just "hey, look what I assumed"...


User currently offlineRunga08 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

MD80's and 737-3, 4, 5 series don't have surge tanks, so when the VTO valve opens to release pressure, it spills through the vents during push back, take off or even flight when the wings are at capacity. This is common in DEN during hot summer days. I'm not too sure about 747's, but I thought the fuel in the surge tanks recirc back to the 1 and 4 tanks... ( we don't get that many 747's in DEN)

User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 12):
UA also has blue bellies on their 747 (old c/s). Not sure who else does


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