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Copa LAX Pax Stuck In TIJ For 14hours.  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

Between weather enroute eating into fuel reserves, US customs hours, and flight deck crew running out of hours these passengers certainly had a little adventure.

Quote:
Passengers Become Stuck In Tijuana After Mixed Messages From Airline

LOS ANGELES -- Passengers on a flight from Panama to Los Angeles finally arrived at Los Angeles International Airport on Thursday after what they call a 14-hour-long frustrating ordeal.

Copa Airlines Flight 302 took off behind schedule late Wednesday night from Panama City and then landed in Tijuana

Passengers said the crew told them the flight was low on fuel after flying around a hurricane.

Passengers said they were later told it was too late at night to fly to Los Angeles because customs would be closed by the time they landed.

After 14 hours stranded in Tijuana, some passengers left on their own. "We jumped on an airplane to LAX from San Diego and now trying to figure out how to get our luggage out of customs," said passenger Dennis Rourke.

http://www.knbc.com/travelgetaways/13423404/detail.html?dl=mainclick

Quote:
May 31, 2007 (KABC-TV) - A refueling stop in Tijuana turned into a 14-hour ordeal for more than 150 passengers on a Copa Airlines flight.

The passengers say they were left stranded in the terminal with little food.

Copa Airlines says the flight was diverted because of weather conditions. As a result of the additional flight time, the plane consumed more fuel, which made it necessary to stop in Tijuana. Copa Airlines says the plane couldn't take off because customs at LAX closes at 2 a.m. The airline says its pilots had hit a limit on flying time and replacement pilots had to be sent to Tijuana by car from Los Angeles.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=5357674


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAHFLYER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

Are there any U.S. airports where customs are open 24 hours a day?


Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32619 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 1):
Are there any U.S. airports where customs are open 24 hours a day?

MIA. They have international arrivals coming in at 2.40AM (AV 4 from Bogota).



a.
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
May 31, 2007 (KABC-TV) - A refueling stop in Tijuana turned into a 14-hour ordeal for more than 150 passengers on a Copa Airlines flight.

The passengers say they were left stranded in the terminal with little food.

Copa Airlines says the flight was diverted because of weather conditions.

Does anyone knows how many flights were diverted at that time due to bad weather?


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
Does anyone knows how many flights were diverted at that time due to bad weather?

It not LA weather, instead something enroute, which was probably Cyclone Barbara off the Mexican Coast.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WEATHER/05/30/mexico.storm.reut/

I guess for whatever reason they were not flight planned around the weather with adequate fuel supplies.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 5850 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
It not LA weather, instead something enroute, which was probably Cyclone Barbara off the Mexican Coast.

Thanks.

And CM was the only affected ?


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 1):
Are there any U.S. airports where customs are open 24 hours a day?

JFK, MIA, LAX among many others. A lot of them.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2545 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

I guess that's what happens when

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
I guess for whatever reason they were not flight planned around the weather with adequate fuel supplies.

It's also quite a long flight for a 737.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 7):

It's also quite a long flight for a 737.

They do it every day. To Montevideo is a longer flight.


User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5800 times:

One would think if they had enough fuel to get to TIJ that they could make it to SAN, so passengers could enter the US there and clear customs, instead of clearing Mexican and then US.

User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

Quoting Phllax (Reply 9):
One would think if they had enough fuel to get to TIJ that they could make it to SAN, so passengers could enter the US there and clear customs, instead of clearing Mexican and then US

Who knows what happened, remember crew timing could have been the biggest concern, I am guessing the reason no hotels could be provided was that most latinos are required visas for Mexican entry, CM could have handled it better i am sure, and I hope this doesnt happen again.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Seems to be a world-wide trend nowadays...if something goes wrong, nobody's in charge. No one is allowed to make arrangements for food, sanitation, or customs. Sit and wait for fourteen hours while the rest of world pretends you don't exist.

Had they landed in San Diego, they wouldn't have been able to leave the plane. At least in TIJ, they could cross at San Ysidro and make their way to Los Angeles.

Very sad.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 1):
Are there any U.S. airports where customs are open 24 hours a day?

EWR .... I know some flights arrive around 4am.. one example would be CO 091 TLV-EWR...


User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
Had they landed in San Diego, they wouldn't have been able to leave the plane.

Why's that? Care to ellaborate and enlighten us by the way?

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 6):
JFK, MIA, LAX among many others

LAX not this time... Actually, it closes at 2:00 AM.

__Ad.



A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
Seems to be a world-wide trend nowadays...if something goes wrong, nobody's in charge. No one is allowed to make arrangements for food, sanitation, or customs. Sit and wait for fourteen hours while the rest of world pretends you don't exist.

I think it has a lot to do with a very Latin mentality among workers, follow orders, period. On my last trip to panama I noticed how people there simply dont think for themselves and dont have the cojones to make a decision, they follow the company book to the dot and dont act on very obvious situations.

Latin employees almost never go beyond the call of duty.

Employees have no sense of responsibility for their roles other than following orders. The empty counter at LAX is shameful, I understand that they could have had problems at TIJ because they had not CS or ground staff their, but keeping passengers stranded and in the dark in LAX is just despicable.

BTW before you flame me for a racist post, I want to point out that I am born and raised Panamanian, living in the US, my family still has business interests in Panama and I am therefore constantly involved managing workers and dealing with labor issues.

I feel that the lack of dedication to their jobs in Latin America is due to the fairly bad treatment that most employees receive, they therefore dont care about their job and will only do the bare minimum to not be fired.


User currently offlineTPAPDX From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

A very unfortuneate experience, and thankfully, still rare enough that it makes news. I don't believe COPA normally flys to TIJ (no presence, no personnel), so trying to arrange adequate services for its delayed passengers would be very difficult, if not impossible, especially late at night. Then throw in the crew timing out, and we get this situation.

It would be up to the airport to step-up and provide needed food and water, and then work with COPA after the incident to recoup any cost associated with the emergency assistance. Airports need to be prepared for situations like this, and have food, water, cots, pillows, blankets, and medical/infant/feminine supplies on hand. You don't have to be ORD to suddenly find yourselfs with hundreds, or even thousands, of passengers stranded.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 5565 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
The airline says its pilots had hit a limit on flying time and replacement pilots had to be sent to Tijuana by car from Los Angeles.

Herein lies the answer...

..first off this very exact situation, same carrier to boot...wound up in this sling before. The LAX Station Manager certainly has an ADDITIONAL 150 pax waiting to depart on that very same failed-to-show-up airc in TIJ! So after he coddles and burps them to appease me (or while doing so) he/she should (knowing that the TIJ pax are stuck, screwed and left to to TIJ officials) send a CSR + Security + big credit card.cash to TIJ to accomodate those PAX. This would go a long way in stopping people from bad mouthing COPA on the news like the did last night! Copa really took a beating on local airways...makes you wonder..do they feel the 14hr hell they put their customers thru..was worth it-


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

Quote:
I think it has a lot to do with a very Latin mentality among workers, follow orders, period. On my last trip to panama I noticed how people there simply dont think for themselves and dont have the cojones to make a decision, they follow the company book to the dot and dont act on very obvious situations.

Considering the AA MD80 that sat in Austin on the tarmac until the Captain himself revolted and the JetBlue situation, it's not unique to Latin cultures at all.

Most airlines worst-case scenario plans consist of one word - "PRAY".

Pray that it doesn't happen.

Pass the buck to someone else to take the blame.

Hope that the stranded airplane will just disappear.

Pray that this year's thunderstorm season will be less than the last year's.

No one has contingency plans anymore - not the airlines, not the airports, not the government.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 6):

LAX Customs is NOT 24-hours. That is why this happened, the plane couldn't continue to LAX since Customs had closed, so they were stuck at TIJ.

Alaska had a bad run in with LAX customs when we had a flight from MEX divert to ONT due to LAX weather. My managers and I spent hours pleading to Customs to allow us to continue to LAX, which they did 2 hrs later.

Quoting Phllax (Reply 9):

SAN is closed for curfew at night. If they diverted to SAN they then land at another US airport, with no Customs, and would have been stuck since they can not take off after 1100 or 1130pm. So you have 150 passengers sleeping on an airplane.

If the pilot crew running out of time as LAXINTL said, then SAN is also a bad choice cause thats just a little farther then TIJ as well. Though not that far!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Guam is 24/7 365 never closes

User currently offlineTomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

The plane was HP-1523CMP and I got the following message off ACARS, I knew something was wrong:

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .HP1523
Message label: RA Block id: R Msg. no: QUPT
Flight id: CM0303
Message content:-
YWBCM~1MSG

SORRY, NO VI CUANDO
ENTRARON LOS MSGS.
SI, YA ESTAN PENDIENTES
DE SU LLEGADA.


ORIG.: MEYIN CHONG

-------------------------------------[31/05/2007 23:34]

In other words:

SORRY, I DIDN'T SEE WHEN
THE MESSAGES CAME IN.
YES, THEY ARE STANDING BY
FOR YOUR ARRIVAL.

Note this is CMP303 LAX-PTY, after the ordeal.

Regards,
Tomas.

[Edited 2007-06-02 00:50:35]

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

This is not adding up.......OK the plane lands at TIJ late at night, but then stays there for 14 hours?!?!?!?!?!?!

If a crew was sent from LAX to TIJ by car they can drive from one airport to the other in about 3 hours, and then the flight back would be like 30 to 45 minutes...........why 14 hours?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 12):
EWR .... I know some flights arrive around 4am.. one example would be CO 091 TLV-EWR...

EWR isn't 24 hours either. The 91 is the first flight to pass through customs for the day (unless 83 DEL-EWR) beats them.

Customs opens at 0400 or so. If you get in earlier, you have to wait.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 18):
LAX Customs is NOT 24-hours. That is why this happened, the plane couldn't continue to LAX since Customs had closed, so they were stuck at TIJ.

The question is why Tijuana? Why not a closer airport in the U.S.?


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 23):
The question is why Tijuana? Why not a closer airport in the U.S.?

What US airport do you suggest at 1230am??

Obviosuly if the flight could have, it would have made the additional 125miles to LAX.

As mentioned in reply 18 the only other real airport in between was San Diego, itself however does not have customs during the night hours, and additionaly has a departure curfew so the passengers and plane would be stuck until the morning at the very earliest until they could deplane and redepart to LAX.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 TACAA320 : I really don't know to be honest. That's precisely the reason of my question. They were already stuck.
26 Laxintl : Tijuana was just as good. San Diego would likely have been a bigger mess for Copa incurring both financial fines for showing up announced and getting
27 TACAA320 : About 15 minutes flight ?
28 N1120A : Only 2. JFK and MIA Incorrect. Only JFK and MIA I doubt that Copa would send crews that aren't fluent in English and I doubt SAN and ONT are ever wit
29 TACAA320 : I know that since reply 13.
30 TACAA320 : They also have the option to talk Spanglish (just kidding).
31 CM767 : Slow news day perhaps? No excuse for the treatment to passengers, but this was blown out of proportion by the media.
32 TACAA320 : Probably yes. But they are saying the truth. The information is accurate.
33 RICARIZA : My question exactly...
34 Aaway : Interesting discussion regarding USCBP hours at LAX. As several posters have already mentioned, LAX FIS' do not operate 24 hours. However, the facilit
35 TACAA320 : I prefer to ask at what time Immigration close at SJC and if CM has enough fuel and time to get to the U.S. [their destination, instead of México].
36 2travel2know : Wasn't PHX or TUS or even - soon to be CM destination - GDL considered as alternates to TIJ in this case?
37 Laxintl : The PTY-LAX routing takes the flight up the Mexican Coast very close to Tijuana crossing into the US just abeam Mexicali Mexico / Calexico California
38 TACAA320 : Apparently no. Is GDL [Immigration] open at that time ?
39 KLM685 : I'm amazed by the fact that it stood there for 14 hours being LAX not THAT far from TIJ. As they well pointed out earlier it's a 3 hour drive so...rea
40 TACAA320 : I have another perspective. Passengers paid for an airline ticket to LAX. A bus was not an option.
41 Platinumfoota : I was just wondering, what did the airline give the passengers? Refund? Free future flight? Anything?
42 Bimmerkid19 : They could have gotten a request to land at Miramar Naval Airstation, at least then the Military could inspect the plane and theyd have a place to st
43 2travel2know : Doesn't the shortest route between PTY and LAX go PTY > ADZ > Nicaragua-Honduras Caribbean border > CZM/MID > CRP > ELP/CJS > TUS/PHX > ONT > LAX ?
44 TACAA320 : Probably was the route taken.
45 N1120A : It doesn't work that way. The military is not to act on domestic territory unless attacked.
46 Laxintl : Landing at military station without advanced permission is not something you would want to do except in the most dire circumstance. I'd venture to gu
47 Sllevin : Landing at TIJ isn't the question -- that was fine. What is bizarre is that they couldn't get a crew there in three hours to fly up at 6:00am. Steve
48 B-787 : Being Panamanian, this whole situation makes complete sense. Even though Copa is a class act, stuff still runs on that good ole' "Panama Time".
49 TACAA320 : In terms of what ?
50 B-787 : As professionally run as Copa is, if you have ever dealt with a Panamanian business they tend to work on their own time in certain circumstances. Cop
51 AirFranceJFK : JFK has 24 hour coverage, however only at Terminal 4. I believe all other terminals close their customs facilities at 11:30pm. It's not uncommon to s
52 TACAA320 : Thanks for your answer !
53 Asuflyer : True, I arrived on AA EZE-JFK and we were 45 min early so we had to wait until customs facilites were open at T8. Also when I fly TA SJO-JFK which ar
54 Tommytoyz : Tij is a great solution. Much better than SAN. From the TIJ airport, they have busses leaving going all the way to Sacramento. Along the way, they sto
55 Adriaticus : Better to remain in one's country...! Obviously, impossible in this case. Why would CM want to risk fines and penalties just for landing on the other
56 TACAA320 : Sorry is not a great solution. Remember that passengers paid for an airline ticket, not to Greyhound.
57 2travel2know : That flight pilots didn't foresee what was going to happen already when flying over GDL. There are times when SCL is closed that the CM flight lands
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