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New E-Jets And LCY Airport  
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

After flying out of LCY the other day on a BAE-146 and seeing nothing but turboprops and BAE RJ's sitting on the tarmac, I've been wondering what planes would and would not be able to make a flight in and out of LCY.

I know that Airbus has been working on a modified A318 that'd be able to do the trick, but could a CRJ, ERJ, or any of the new E-Jets make the takeoff and landing from the airport?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBrymon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

The ERJ 135 can use LCY, but it's pretty weight restricted which is why Luxair now use the Q400. Embraer will eventually have E170 E175 and E190's that will be able to use LCY and as you say the A318 will also be able to. The operating costs of the A318 will probably prevent many operators from using it, currently lease costs of Bae/RJ's are very low so they'll be around for some time.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

The E-170 is capable of operating out of LCY for up to 600nm hops.

(Source: http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...o=ejets/doc/Brochure_170Family.pdf and go to page 08)


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

I believe the A318 has already been certificated for LCY, but the problem is mostly related to ramp space. The wingspan alone can cause constraints in terms of ramp space. The same goes for the E-Jets.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
I believe the A318 has already been certificated for LCY, but the problem is mostly related to ramp space. The wingspan alone can cause constraints in terms of ramp space. The same goes for the E-Jets.

no more than 3 A318 will be allowed on the runway at anyone time in the current airport footprint.

The fact the Fokker 50, BAE146 are cheap to operate (and that more of them operate here than it seems anywhere else) proves it's worth.

I heard LCY has got the go ahead to add 3 more gates (taking it to 13) over the next year.

I heard LOT wants to start a service to LCY and the EMB would fit this well (it currently serves Manhcester to WAW but loads are low). On the other side I heard LCY wants a Central European service.. so maybe these two will eventually meet ?

Given the state of LHR.. short haul for passengers going to/from London only.. LCY clearly points the right direction.

BAE146's are cheap to hire (I believe there are a number "off the shelf" awaiting lease at Filton) and so these will find buyers / leasors before the EMBs.

If you look at the 146's at LCY you'll notice they all seem to be "white tails" of a sort, or the interiors dont seem to carry the corporate colour. (AF's 146's look suspiciously BA-esque, as does LH's). It would seem the lease or the sub-contracting by the majors to smaller subsidiaries involves a lot of bed hopping by the fleet.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
The E-170 is capable of operating out of LCY for up to 600nm hops.

I wonder if the new AR variant would be able to improve on that range out of LCY or be a non-starter?.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...mbraer-boosts-e-jet-endurance.html

So far, LOT flies E170s to LHR only.....

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Photo © Dmitriy Pichugin - Russian AviaPhoto Team


Does flybe have any plans of acquiring the E170?

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
I believe the A318 has already been certificated for LCY, but the problem is mostly related to ramp space. The wingspan alone can cause constraints in terms of ramp space. The same goes for the E-Jets.

no more than 3 A318 will be allowed on the runway at anyone time in the current airport footprint.

I understand the ramp and gate issues are being addressed.....

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
I heard LCY has got the go ahead to add 3 more gates (taking it to 13) over the next year.

As it happens, only AF and Tarom are operating A318s in Europe.....

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Photo © James Mepsted
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Photo © Sascha Kamrau


LCY may receive other regular A318 visitors once the Elites of NAS, Jet Alliance and Petters Group are delivered and get bookings to London. It's just Comlux that has one of theirs in revenue service.

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Photo © French Frogs AirSlides




"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
Given the state of LHR.. short haul for passengers going to/from London only.. LCY clearly points the right direction.

No kidding. LCY is a great airport to fly out of when compared to LHR, no lines and no crowding!

Regarding the BAE RJ's, I'd have thought that they would not be very efficient as they have four engines while any other regional jet has two. Nontheless, the thing sure has some spunk on the T/O roll.

My trip was LCY-ORY-LYS on AF subsidiaries. Frankly I'm surprised that LH, AF and KL don't operate services from LCY to FRA CDG and AMS, as I could see a lot of people taking a connection to avoid the mess that is LHR!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2986 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 6):
Frankly I'm surprised that LH, AF and KL don't operate services from LCY to FRA CDG and AMS,

All of the routes you mentioned are operated. And I also agree that LCY is a great airport and certainly much better than LHR. Also add LX's LCY-ZRH and SK LCY-CPH.

Rgs


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 6):
Regarding the BAE RJ's, I'd have thought that they would not be very efficient as they have four engines while any other regional jet has two.

The reason airlines picked the BAe146s/RJs on the City route is because of the requirement to do a 5.5deg approach instead of the normal 3deg. (10% v 5% gradient) Before the advent of the latest Canadairs and Embraers no RPT jets were capable of doing it.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
The E-170 is capable of operating out of LCY for up to 600nm hops.

Not so much about operating out of City but into City. Outbounds off both 10/28 are capped at 3000' on initial climb out to duck underneathe the LL inbounds on 27.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):

All of the routes you mentioned are operated. And I also agree that LCY is a great airport and certainly much better than LHR. Also add LX's LCY-ZRH and SK LCY-CPH.

Indeed, KL operates 7 daily (weekday) F50s on AMS-LCY. VLM operates even more flights (all weekdays):
AMS 12 daily
RTM 9 daily
ANR 7 daily
BRU 5 daily
LUX 3 daily
MAN 7 daily

LH (and regional partners) operates:
3 daily DUS
3 daily FRA
2 daily HAM
2 daily MUC

BA Connect operates
3 daily FRA
2 daily CDG
2 daily MAD

SAS will also operate:
2 daily OSL
2 daily ARN
3 daily CPH

AF also operates 2 daily MAD.

And then there is still BA and Air One on Italian routes (MXP, LIN).

All in all, there are quite many routes from LCY!


User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
Also add LX's LCY-ZRH

precisely:

LX BSL-LCY (up to 3 daily)
LX BRN-LCY (twice daily on weekdays, 1 daily on sundays, operated by Darwin Airlines)
LX GVA-LCY (up to 7 daily)
LX ZRH-LCY (up to 8 daily)
Darwin Airlines LUG-LCY (up to twice daily)

Plus AF who operate GVA (3 daily) /ZRH (4 daily) -LCY and BA on ZRH-LCY (4 daily).

surely, Switzerland must gbe one of the top-destinations from LCY? Which is probably why there is an LX bird on LCY's website logo Big grin

[Edited 2007-06-03 14:12:19]

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3903 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

As for the E190, I have some serious doubts. To get an aircraft certified for a steep approach is one thing, to operate it from an airport that requires a steep approach AND only has a very short runway is a totally different thing. The E190 has been mentioned as getting certified for airports that require a steep approach, such as Lugano, Sion, London City etc. This does not mean that it would make any sense to operate the E190 from LCY. Just look at the runway requirements for the E190 and compare that to the available runway at LCY for take-offs and it it not exactly rocket-science to figure out that the E190 would suffer from severe load penalties. If the E170 can only make it 600nm from LCY, try to imagine how much the E190 will make......

User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
SAS will also operate:
2 daily OSL
2 daily ARN
3 daily CPH

What aircraft?

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
What aircraft?

Q400s if i aint mistaken.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2562 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):

What aircraft?

ARN-LCY and OSL-LCY with a Transwede Avro RJ70
CPH-LCY with a Q400


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2537 times:

Fly Baboo wants to do it with E190 as that option will be fitted on board their a/c.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Have we forgotten about the little king of LCY ?

VLM...

its their main hub. VLM operates more routes from LCY than anyone else.

The 15 or so Fokkers operate around 50 flights a day from LCY.

I read in LCY's magazine that VLM are introducing BAE146's to the Luxembourg route. It will be VLM's first non-fokker route.

The KL 1566 or 1562 route to LCY is my regular day trip to holland.. if your in the airport on a Monday or a Wednesday look out for me usually at the window with a camera and occasionally a fresh bottle of scotch any time around 5pm ish !
Big version: Width: 1632 Height: 1224 File size: 183kb
Typically busy 6pm at LCY 25th April 2007, OO-VLX, OO-VLZ and HB-IXH
Big version: Width: 1632 Height: 1224 File size: 196kb
00-VLX City of Luxembourg arrives at LCY 25th April 2007


What gets me is that building behind.. ever since Ive been around (since 2000) this buildings never been used for anything and is always up for let ! (Apparently the palm trees here were imported for filming stanley kubricks "full metal jacket" which was filmed in nearby Beckton Gas Works (since demolished) and were unwanted after the film.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3903 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

What does Flybaboo want to do with the E190 - services to/from LCY? Can you provide a source for that ?

Flybaboo will get their E190 certified for steep approach because they serve both Sion and Lugano. This automatically means that it will have the steep approach capability that is required for LCY as well. That does not mean that Flybaboo will and wants to operate the E190 from LCY. Even if the E190 would be useful for LCY, from where should they use it ? From GVA, where there is already excess capacity thanks to AF und LX, or from LUG, where Darwin has just pulled out because they only had one-digit pax loads in a 50seater to LCY?


The figures for the E190 are: Take Off Field Length for the E190 ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm is 1,267m, while TODA at LCY 1.319m. The required landing field length at LCY, SL, MLW is 1,392m, while ASDA at LCY is 1.319m.

That excludes pretty much all destinations other than those in Germany, Benelux, the UK, most parts of France and Denmark.



Some trivia concerning other posts:
- VLM has already introduced a BAe 146-300, not on the LUX route, but on the RTM route.
- SAS will shortly introduce two ex Swiss RJ85 for LCY services
- Lufthansa also flies to NUE and STR once daily in addition to DUS, FRA, MUC and HAM.
- the capacity will be increased by 4 to 18 stands by summer 2008 by constructing a 20,000sq m (65,617sq ft) concrete platform, supported by piles and built over the King George V dock to the east of the existing terminal.

[Edited 2007-06-03 18:21:43]

[Edited 2007-06-03 18:38:36]

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

[quote=DEVILFISH,reply=5]Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
The E-170 is capable of operating out of LCY for up to 600nm hops.
[quote]

Whats restricting that ?

LHR-WAW I believe is 900 miles or thats what LO gives me anyhow ?, LCY is therefore about 20 miles less (basically that same).
MAN-WAW is slightly more.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 18):

Whats restricting that ?

My guess would be fuel load / takeoff weight on that short runway leaves them with only 600nm of range.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
The E-170 is capable of operating out of LCY for up to 600nm hops.

Would it be terribly difficult to put the CFM56 derived CF34-10 used on E-190/195 under the wings of E-170/175? Like, a special performance option? Aside from being a real rocket, I would imagine it would have impressive field performance and could probably maintain full payload out of LCY?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 20):

Would it be terribly difficult to put the CFM56 derived CF34-10 used on E-190/195 under the wings of E-170/175? Like, a special performance option? Aside from being a real rocket, I would imagine it would have impressive field performance and could probably maintain full payload out of LCY?

Beats me. The E-170 already has very impressive short field characteristics though even at MTOW, much better than even the ERJ-135. Eventually the extra weight those engines weigh might not help it much more.


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