And I was specifically thinking of this one, as reported by www.eurocockpit on a hard landing of an Airlinair ATR in 2005:
QUOTE: Et le meilleur pour la fin : M6 ayant envoyé un cameraman, on demande à la gendarmerie d'interposer ses véhicules entre l'aérogare (où sont postés les journalistes) et le train de l'ATR, afin de s'assurer que rien de sera filmé...
La seule question qui nous vient à l'esprit, en voyant ces images, est de savoir si les pompiers et les gendarmes sont réellement là pour poser du papier kraft sur les logos d'un avion dont on ne veut plus, tout à coup, montrer les couleurs.
Résultat de ce maquillage : la presse annonce un problème survenu à l'atterrissage "d'un avion privé". UNQUOTE
ONLINE TRANSLATION: And the best for the end: M6 having sent a cameraman, one requires of the gendarmerie to interpose its vehicles between the air terminal (where the journalists are posted) and the landing gear of ATR, in order to make sure that nothing of will be filmed… The only question which comes us to mind, by seeing these images, is to know if the firemen and the gendarmes are really there to pose kraft paper on the logos of a plane which one does not want any more, suddenly, to show the colors. Result of this make-up: the press announces a problem to the landing “of a private aircraft”.
No... 3 different things :
- 2001 -> an 340 landed... before the runway in Cayenne
- February 17th, 2005 -> an A340 tried to land under an heavy rain at Douala, the plane slipped off the runway (and no, i'm not talking about the Toronto crash)
- August 29th, 2005 -> an ATR suffered a gears retraction on landing at Lyon... the plane was carrying Lyon's soccer team... the plane has been hidden, the tail covered, "Air France" title covered too...
In France, Concorde and Toronto crashes made headlines... but almost nothing ("almost nothing", not "absolutely nothing") about these 3 other accidents.
FlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7493 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20255 times:
Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13): February 17th, 2005 -> an A340 tried to land under an heavy rain at Douala, the plane slipped off the runway
First, the incident occured on february 19th 2006. Then, this is what happened :
In final apporach at DLA, F-GLZM was cought in a micro storm. The weather conditions on the threshold of the runway were far worse than reported by the ATC to the Crew.
The pilots couldn't see anymore the runway because of the heavy tropical rain. At the moment the main gear touched the Runway they initiated a last minute Go around.
During the climb, the F/A seating at the rear reported that they heard a strange sound during the "Go around". The pilots feared a tail strike.
The A340 came back to land normally (and not in the grass)... at DLA .
After all the safety checks were done.
There was no "overshoot" of the runway.
The flight back to Paris was cancelled as a precaution. As it is the rule to make an inspection of the plane in such a case, and this inspection could not be carried out by the local staff in DLA.
Another A343 with a Mechanic ground staff was ferried from Paris to DLA to bring back to passengers to Paris.
F-GLZM was flown back to Paris the day after and went back in service.
Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13): 2001 -> an 340 landed... before the runway in Cayenne
Windshear problem. Occurred on May 21st 2001. Aircraft involved = F-GLZC.
From the "BEA"* report :
En approche finale ILS en piste 08 de l'aérodrome de Cayenne-Rochambeau, l'avion a rencontré un cisaillement de vent modéré, associé à un grain, et, à une hauteur d'environ trente mètres, s'est enfoncé brutalement. Le copilote, aux commandes, a réagi en tirant sur le manche puis a réduit la poussée pour atterrir. Le commandant de bord a augmenté la poussée et repris les commandes. L'avion a d'abord touché sur le train gauche trente mètres avant le seuil de piste, puis il a rebondi et a atterri environ cinq cents mètres plus loin.
Au cours de l'approche, l'équipage n'avait pas identifié le risque de rencontre d'un cisaillement de vent et aucune information ne lui avait été transmise sur ce point. A proximité du sol, son attention, concentrée à l'extérieur de l'avion, a été perturbée par la dégradation de la visibilité due à l'averse et il n'a pas détecté les variations rapides de la vitesse annonçant l'enfoncement de l'avion.
L'absence de consignes précises données aux équipages de transport public pour la réalisation d'approches en conditions orageuses et les limites des capacités du système d'auto-poussée à maintenir la vitesse de l'avion dans les conditions rencontrées ont été des facteurs contributifs.
Le rapport contient six recommandations de sécurité qui visent à améliorer l'information fournie aux équipages sur les cisaillements de vent, et à renforcer leur entraînement et les outils dont ils disposent pour faire face à ce type de situation.
BEA = Bureau Enquête Accidents, equivalent to NTSB in the US.
Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13): August 29th, 2005 -> an ATR suffered a gears retraction on landing at Lyon... the plane was carrying Lyon's soccer team... the plane has been hidden, the tail covered, "Air France" title covered too...
That was not an Air France flight. The plane was chartered by the "Olympique Lyonnais" to carry the Soccer team.
The plane was just wearing AF colors because it operates also flights on behalf of AF from LYS, ORY and CDG.
Woosie From United States of America, joined May 2006, 115 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20179 times:
That a bad photoshop job. The wing won't break until it bends ALOT and the landing gear are bottomed out. Also, wings don't break evenly across the span, or chord-wise for that matter - the designs preclude this. Lastly, there's no evidence of the airplane cartwheeling, which is only a potential result of a hard wingtip landing.
Goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16750 times:
Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13): - August 29th, 2005 -> an ATR suffered a gears retraction on landing at Lyon... the plane was carrying Lyon's soccer team... the plane has been hidden, the tail covered, "Air France" title covered too...
This is Airlinair, not AF
This incident as well as the other you are mentionning are not hidden. You can find reports on the BEA web site
The February 2003 "near miss" in Halifax where the AF lost all it's fuel in a leak. This was so "near miss" the aircraft had to be towed from the runway after landing as there was no fuel remaining to move on it's own..
This fact was more hidden by the fact the press was all over the news there was less than 20 passengers on the plane and questioning it's viability in the news.
This together with the rudder delamination a week later that helped lead to the AF decision that continuing with concorde was too unsafe and expensive to overhaul, just when it was trying to privatise.
Airbus was the one with the cover up.. the mysterious dissapearing black boxes..from the A320 flight when under pressure did they suddenly re-appear.. but someone had a picture of the originals which didnt match the ones that airbus later produced.. and opened illegally... do a google it's all over if you look for it.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
Eclipz From France, joined Jun 2006, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8658 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14): Next time, please, try to me more accurate in your posts.
I was speaking from a general point of view. Of course they were not really hidden, i was referring to Jonathan-l's message saying that Air France is good at covering up incidents... but, AFAIK, they don't hide them to the BEA, only to the press so, of course we can find BEA reports... i was just saying medias were strangely quiet (compared to Toronto or Concorde crashes).
About the ATR incident, i know it was not an Air France aircraft but it's painted in Air France livery so, for a lot of people (media included), it's an Air France incident. M6 stated at the time that Air France (yes, Air France) was covering up the incident (images of the covered plane as proof, that's why i mentioned that even if it's common).
About Douala, my mistake, i wasn't precise enough, i was referring to the first things heard after the incident, as reported by some witnesses, they said the aircraft slipped off the runway, not on the runway... i didn't mention the go around because, in itself, it's not an incident...
Finally, about Cayenne... you're just more precise than i am but i was right, the plane actually touched before the runway threshold (for whatever reason)... obviously, i didn't pretend that i was making a detailed report of each accident... i repeat, i was just providing examples to what Jonathan-l said. KLM685 understood what i meant, it's from a general point of view, not from an insider one (where nothing can really be covered up), i think it was Jonathan's point (he, himself, provided the ATR example to its own statement)
: Eclipz, That's what you have to learn : Don't take for granted what you can hear from the media ... An incident like what happened in DLA should never
: i totally agree... but french medias are so hungry about aviation problems that it's strange when they don't mention things like that, so people thin