Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1370 posts, RR: 2 Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36722 times:
EI have ordered 6 A330-300E aircraft and 6 A350XWB aircraft.
Deliveries of the A330-300E's will commmence in 2009, no firm date is set on the A350XWB's and they have taken options on a further 6 A350XWB's from 2018 onwards.
Here is a copy of the statement text released by EI to the stock exchange:
Dublin, 6th June 2007
Aer Lingus Group plc ("Aer Lingus" or the "Airline") today announces a substantial expansion of its long haul fleet. The Airline has selected the new Airbus A350 XWB (extra wide body) and A330-300E (enhanced) aircraft to underpin its long haul growth strategy. This follows an extensive evaluation process and intensive negotiations and will allow the Airline to double its long haul fleet to fourteen Airbus aircraft by 2014. Aer Lingus will take delivery of six new A330-300E and six new A350 XWB aircraft, valued at $2.4bn at catalogue prices, with deliveries commencing in 2009. Substantial discounts off the catalogue prices have been negotiated. In addition, Aer Lingus will also be granted the option to purchase a further six A350 XWB aircraft for delivery by 2018.
This transaction is subject to shareholder approval, which will be sought at a specially convened Extraordinary General Meeting.
The expansion of the Aer Lingus long haul fleet commenced in 2007 with the delivery of a new A330-200E aircraft in May, to be followed by an A330-300E scheduled for delivery in June 2007, bringing the long haul fleet to nine aircraft. The transaction announced today will bring the long haul fleet to fourteen aircraft in 2014 through the delivery of five additional aircraft and the replacement of three older aircraft (one in 2009 and two in 2011). A further four aircraft will be replaced in 2015 and 2016. In addition, over the next few years Aer Lingus will be substantially improving the levels of passenger comfort in its existing aircraft in an upgrade programme.
The new A330-300E will offer increased passenger comfort coupled with greater fuel efficiency and a reduced environmental footprint. The A350 XWB is Airbus' newest aircraft and will be the world's most technologically advanced. It is designed to increase productivity, offer unparalleled levels of passenger comfort in its class whilst reducing operating costs. The A350 XWB will also be one of the most fuel-efficient commercial aircraft in the world.
Commenting on the announcement, Aer Lingus' Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said, "Following the successful IPO last autumn, in which we raised significant capital, we are pleased to announce this investment in new long haul aircraft. These aircraft are key to our growth ambitions which include new routes to the U.S. following the Open Skies agreement. The aircraft will complement our existing Airbus fleet and enhance our long haul network whilst offering a superior product to customers."
Speaking at the announcement, Airbus Chief Operating Officer, Customers, John Leahy said, "We are absolutely delighted that Aer Lingus has chosen to modernise and expand its Airbus fleet. The A350 XWB will bring Aer Lingus industry leading operating costs and offer its customers best-in-class passenger comfort. The A330's continued winning economics and design is reinforced by the order."
This information is provided by RNS The company news service from the London Stock Exchange END
N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 542 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36565 times:
Yes, good news for Airbus and their struggling A350 program.
But I am quite surprised at the options - 11 years down the road... wow!
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36500 times:
Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter): EI have ordered 6 A330-300E aircraft and 6 A350XWB aircraft.
Deliveries of the A330-300E's will commmence in 2009, no firm date is set on the A350XWB's and they have taken otpions on a further 6 A350XWB's from 2018 onwards.
This is wonderful news for both the A350 and A350X program. Airbus has finally managed to capture yet another launch customer for the program, from an important and respected customer.
I was rather surprised that they only ordered 6 A350's. I would suspect that the options held will be exercised in the near future.
Quoting FCKC (Reply 1): Great news ! Probably A350XWB-800.
Both the A350-800 and 900 would work well for EI.
Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 2): Wonderful news for the A330/A350. Please excuse my ignorance but what is an A330-300 E?
Quoting N1786b (Reply 3): And just what is a A330-300 E?
I would suspect that it is an enhanced version of the A330. Finnair also recently received an A340-300E.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 3): Yes, good news for Airbus and their struggling A350 program.
Well in the past week we have received confirmation from Qatar (80), Kingfisher will also re-order (5) and now Aer Lingus (6). That is a total of 91 frames. Not bad for a struggling program
RJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36481 times:
There's an A340-300E which SA first took first delivery of which has slightly more efficient engines (1.1% IIRC), an LCD cockpit and a redesigned cabin. So i'd imagine the A330-300E has the similar cabin and cockpit enhancements, and perhaps some form of engine improvement.
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36371 times:
Congrats to Aer Lingus, nice airline with a good fleet, also congrats to Ireland for the strong economic development that allows this increase in aviation. Congrats to Airbus for selling good planes.
What are EI's long-range destinations? BOS, JFK, IAD, LAX, SFO, ORD, MCO, and DXB? They need more planes for that. Besides, after LT changed their livery, EI's A330s are probably the best-looking around.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 3): Yes, good news for Airbus and their struggling A350 program.
Struggling, yes, yes, they just sold 80 to QR, now 6+6 to EI, and in LeBourget they sell 100 to EK, US will firm their 20, SU another 22, CI will get 10, BA 50, and IT another 5. (Warning, the orders in LeBourget are speculation and might not include all that will happen there.)
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36371 times:
Airbus A330 - The Best is Yet To Come
Despite many members easily dismissing the capabilities/economics and even the survival of the A330, Airbus has demonstrated that this family is not only alive, but thriving, despite the EIS of the 787 on the horizon.
Airbus A330 Orders/commitments 2007
AIRBUS A330-200
Aercap x 10
Oman Air x 5
Avianca x 5
AIRBUS A330-200F
Avion Aircraft Trading x 8
Flyington x 6
Guggenheim x 6
MNG Cargo x 2 (* pending)
Intrepid x 20 (*pending)
AIRBUS A330-200 (MRTT/TANKER)
Royal Saudi Air Force x 2
United Arab Emirates Air Force x 3
AIRBUS A330-300
Air AsiaX x 10
Thai International x 8
Aer Lingus x 6
Total: 91 orders/commitments in less than six months.
N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 542 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 36294 times:
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 6): Well in the past week we have received confirmation from Qatar (80), Kingfisher will also re-order (5) and now Aer Lingus (6). That is a total of 91 frames. Not bad for a struggling program
Well, Qatar is OLD news - they signed up for that at the last Paris Air Show- and it is just another LoI - to be firmed up for sure. And IF they are also behind the firm order of 30 787s, it certainly isn't a ringing endorsement of Airbus's ability to deliver.
Kingfisher - yeah, they are buying 5 of everything Airbus makes. Good for Airbus as there are not very many customers for the A34Xs any more. But more to the point, they have nowhere to fly them unless they get a waiver or use Air Deccan's certificate. If I were AB I'd just hope the check doesn't bounce. Furthermore, it will be interesting to see the fleet changes they announce at Le Bourget.
Aer Lingus is a good win for them but the number is a little smaller than expected AND the options are up to 11 years away.
Don't get me wrong WINGS, the A350 has gotten a welcome shot in the arm after struggling for years to compete against the 787/777. There will be more announcements and resigning LoIs, MoUs, firm orders, new customers and all kinds of real or fabricated buzz in the next few weeks leading up to and during the air show. I can''t wait. Pass the popcorn!
- n1786b
PS: Don't forget, since March 30th, Boeing has booked +90 FIRM 787 orders (that may include 30 for QATAR)
Shamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 5834 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 36209 times:
This is great news! I'm glad I have the username "Shamrock350" now
The A330 has done EI very well over the years and I'm really pleased they will add more and add A350XWBs. It's interesting that many of us including myself expected EI to order 14 A350s and only a few A330s as interim but it looks like the A330 and A350 will make up the fleet in the future and I'm sure they will work well together.
EI737NG From Ireland, joined Feb 2007, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 36155 times:
Amazed the order wasn't for 14 frames, ordering 6 330's instead of 350's
Maybe a rethink on expansion plans? Why order 330's eventhough delivery starting in 2009.
There could be a spanner in the works yet, as the order is subject to shareholder approval namely FR's 25% shareholding, MOL may have somehting to say about it.
Could have got 78's as quick ..........................
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 36067 times:
Im happy to finally hear this order, and I would like to point out something that has not been mentioned yet - these are just the ones on direct order from airbus, Aer Lingus likes to lease about 50% of its fleet, so dont be surprised to see them take more A350s from a lessor.
The fact that they took the options from 2018 onwards suggests that they will take leases on aircraft for delivery before 2018 to replace the existing A330s, unless they are planning to recieve their A350s at a rate of just over one per year.
Quoting EI737NG (Reply 11): Could have got 78's as quick ..........................
Not as quick as A330s though Â
Quoting Thorben (Reply 7): What are EI's long-range destinations? BOS, JFK, IAD, LAX, SFO, ORD, MCO, and DXB?
Yep, we will probably see some more next year.
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 6): There's an A340-300E which SA first took first delivery of which has slightly more efficient engines (1.1% IIRC), an LCD cockpit and a redesigned cabin. So i'd imagine the A330-300E has the similar cabin and cockpit enhancements, and perhaps some form of engine improvement.
Anybody know the range of the A330-300E? I cant see it having the range to reach many far east destinations.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 5): Quoting N1786b (Reply 3):
Yes, good news for Airbus and their struggling A350 program.
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3432 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 36011 times:
Quoting EI737NG (Reply 11): Maybe a rethink on expansion plans? Why order 330's eventhough delivery starting in 2009.
There could be a spanner in the works yet, as the order is subject to shareholder approval namely FR's 25% shareholding, MOL may have somehting to say about it.
Could have got 78's as quick ..........................
In 2009? You must be kidding. MOL has 25% and will not be able to block the deal.
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1370 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 35903 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 12): Im happy to finally hear this order, and I would like to point out something that has not been mentioned yet - these are just the ones on direct order from airbus, Aer Lingus likes to lease about 50% of its fleet, so dont be surprised to see them take more A350s from a lessor.
The fact that they took the options from 2018 onwards suggests that they will take leases on aircraft for delivery before 2018 to replace the existing A330s, unless they are planning to receive their A350s at a rate of just over one per year.
Hi EI321, while EI have traditionally been big lessors, I think the benefits of ordering direct from Airbus on this deal was too great in terms of discounts for being one of the 1st operators of the A350XWB, something that a lessor couldn't do I would think, so I'm not sure we'll see many more long haul planes being leased.
I made an error in my opening text on the 6 options, they are actually for the A350XWB for delivery up to 2018, not starting then (it is clarified in the text) so from 2014 we may see the 6 options being exercised
I was going to ask the same question as you on the A330-300E range, are Asia routes possible with these or will we still struggle with the A330-200's until the A350's arrive?
3 A333's will be replaced between 2009 and 2011, so my guess is the leased 3 - DUB/CRK/ORD (or JFK) will go, while the 4th - which EI own will be kept until 2014 when the statement says 4 other aircraft will be replaced - read LAX/DAA/EWR and JFK (or ORD)
So the A332's wil be around for a while - so please EI - refit them!!
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 35871 times:
Quoting EI737NG (Reply 14): MOL only needs another 25% of shareholders to be onside with him. Never write him off
This is unlikely in my opinion. This basically means that if Ryanair were to object, they need half of the remaining shareholders to side with them. But Ryanair's reasons for objecting would be unique to Ryanair. Ryanair might object out of spite, but ordinary shareholders have the share price in mind and blocking expansion like this would likely have a negative effect on the share price. I cant see that happening.
N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 542 posts, RR: 19 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 35871 times:
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Quoting RJ111 (Reply 6):
Well in the past week we have received confirmation from Qatar (80), Kingfisher will also re-order (5) and now Aer Lingus (6). That is a total of 91 frames. Not bad for a struggling program
Correction:
I was replying to WINGS and not RJ111.
I suppose it is the famous quote issue - sorry guys.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 35796 times:
Quoting FCKC (Reply 15): Now , question : Who will be the next , having not commited to the old version of the A350 to order the A350XWB ?
...............of course except EK !
There are plenty of possibilities.
British Airways, Thai, Iberia, Air France, Lufthansa, SAS, South African, Aerolineas Argentinas, Etihad, CSA, MEA, etc
OceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 35796 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 12): Anybody know the range of the A330-300E? I cant see it having the range to reach many far east destinations.
According to Airbus the A330-300 range (with maximum pax) is 10,500 km / 5,650 nm, so depending on what the enhancements are, this may be slightly higher. Just a guess.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 35781 times:
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Well, Qatar is OLD news - they signed up for that at the last Paris Air Show- and it is just another LoI - to be firmed up for sure.
Old news?? They previously committed to 60 A350. Now they have increased the order to 80 frames. They are also the launch customer for the A350-1000. They also did a 180º and went with RR. ( yes I know that GE hasn't committed yet).
For these reasons it is not old news.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): And IF they are also behind the firm order of 30 787s, it certainly isn't a ringing endorsement of Airbus's ability to deliver.
The order is for 30 787-800, which would work well, much like the A332/B777 combo.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Kingfisher - yeah, they are buying 5 of everything Airbus makes.
Not really. They have more than 5 A32X, they will also be taking their A380 up to 10 ( if rumours are correct.)
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Aer Lingus is a good win for them but the number is a little smaller than expected AND the options are up to 11 years away
Aer Lingus may opt to lease additional frames, like they currently do for their fleet.
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3432 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 35587 times:
Quoting EI737NG (Reply 14): MOL only needs another 25% of shareholders to be onside with him. Never write him off
Last time when he offered to buy EI shares less than 1% of shareholders were onside with him. I would not be worried.
Plus EU will most likely order him to reduce his share.
[Edited 2007-06-06 12:55:47]
25 777236ER: Yet another A350 order for GE to lose.
26 Glidepath73: I would even go for LX. SWISS operates an longhaul fleet of 332 and 343, which will be perfekt to be replaced in 10 years by A350 in different versio
27 EI321: True, the last time Aer Lingus ordered a Rolls Royce powered aircraft was on the BAC-111 in 1965.
28 FlyTUITravel: Only because they have no choice in the matter, as far as I'm aware they can only make firm orders for up to 5x of each long-haul model until their 1
29 EI321: Assuming they will soon run out of Airbus models to order five of, is there an order for 5 773ER on the cards?
30 Trex8: The A330E is not a range enhancement feature, its LCDs in the cockpit and other systems from the A345/6. On the A343 there is a improvement package fo
31 EI321: I Believe it also has improved fuel burn and margainally higher MTOW, which can of course translate into marginally longer range. As for range: I thi
32 MIASkies: Hopefully we will see Aer Lingus under the MIA sun finally! congrats...
33 Stitch: Not a surprise, but that doesn't take away anything from Airbus for securing the order. all around. As she is my favorite plane flying, here is wishin
34 AutoThrust: Great news, the A350 will look damn hot in EI colors. Im also glad they ordered more sweet A330 my favourite plane. Thanks for posting this incredible
35 ChrisNH: This is great news, as Aer Lingus is my favorite non-U.S. airline. For a host of reasons, they are wise to stick with the manufacturer that they have
36 EI321: I cant see the 777 going anywhere for a few years at least. The 777-200ER & 777-300ER will remain class leaders until something better enters service
37 Jfk777: Great for the AER Lingus long haul fleet. Will the A333 E be able to fly from Dublin to Tokyo or Hong Kong ? Seems to me they can't, which is a bummer
38 Nimish: Sorry - but this is completely untrue. Indian carriers can feel free to order as many a/c as they like, there's absolutely no restriction on that fro
39 Pilot21: Actually, my understanding of the XWB classification is that it had to relaunch the A350 after the airlines expressed very big disappointment with th
40 EI321: Nope. EI has been planning to fly to Asia but I dont know what the exact plan is. They will either have to fly via somewhere like Dubai, or rent some
41 Poitin: I hope you are right, as that is where EI needs to head in its planning. But at least DM finally, at long last, got something - anything - ordered an
42 EI321: That was princepally me, but remember which context I iterated it in - There is no business case for the DAA to lengthen the runway. That remains my
43 KrisYYZ: The A343E's are equipped with engines that have higher rated thrust than the the A343X's, correct? So can we assume that the A330E ordered by EI will
44 Al2637: There is no need to lengthen it, as there is a NEW runway being built!
45 EIDUZ: Will the A350 -8/9/10 all be able to fly to Asia from Dublin?
46 Columba: Nice to have another well respected customer for the A350 may many more follow......
48 EISHN: Not going to happen. During a press conference regarding new routes for SNN, MOL said that the newly propsed sister airline of FR will not fly long h
49 BigJKU: Despite what you seem obsessed with thinking no one was predicting the immediate demise of the A330. What is being said and is true is that the A330
50 EI321: Its end is rapidly approaching.........so lets hike up production? Should we assume that the 777s end is approaching more rapidly on point of the pla
51 NorCal: I thought there would be a bigger order too. Anyways congrats to Airbus and Aer Lingus
52 OA260: Is that just a bad resolution or does it actually look like that on press releases etc??? The one Shamrock350 posted be in unofficial is actually bet
53 DrExotica: Here's a question: which airlines are not 'well respected'? It is a bit amusing to hear the standard kudo's for various airlines each time they order
54 Aminobwana: Only a few comments and quotes: See: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070606/ireland_aer_lingus_airbus.html?.v=1 1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceprtional
55 Poitin: My, my, an optimist. Have you looked at Irish politics lately? http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0604/election.html My reading of that report was My Way wa
56 Scbriml: There are those who have accused Airbus of having "poor-quality" customers.
57 Joni: That the A350's range is a bit better than B787's isn't AFAIK in doubt, and at least Airbus claims a better fuel-burn figure as well (Boeing may disp
58 EI321: " target=_blank>http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0604/ele....html Er, that has something to do with a runway? He has said that he will sell the EI stake it
59 Scbriml: I would guess $2.4b less discount. Maybe Airbus's performance guarantees were better than Boeing's? It's entirely possible. Are you suggesting he's l
60 BigJKU: Well the production hike is understandable in light of the current facts. The window to sell the plane is pretty much fixed. Anything you cannot deli
61 Shamrock350: The titles are tiny in the official pic and the light green looks almost yellow. I was hoping they would do it flying over green fields and mountains
62 Columba: Well I think Aer Lingus is much more well respected than some start up Asian, Middle Eastern low cost airline. But you are right in the end the manuf
63 C680: Exactly. This deal speaks volumes to: 1) EI needs new widebodies - soon. Boeing doesn't have a product to deliver in the near future (B767 is not a s
64 A340313X: Just to clarify, the A330-300X gained the centre fuel tank of the A330-200 and hence a fair bit more range over the regular A330-300 (about 1000nm). T
65 WINGS: I never suggested that the A330 would not die off. What I am saying is that the A330 still has great potential in terms of sales in the coming years.
66 Clydenairways: Anybody know what engines they have selected for the A330-300E ? the current -300's in the fleet are early birds and have a lower MTOW than the -200's
67 EI321: We can assume with almost complete certainty that they will be General Electric CF6 powered.
68 KrisYYZ: The CF6-80E1A3 is the most powerful member of the CF6 family at 69,800lbs. Is there a new CF6 variant planned for the A330E? KrisYYZ
69 A340313X: As far as I am aware the A340-300X and A340-300E both have the same CFM56-5C4 engines with the same or very similar thrust - around 34,000lbs each, w
70 Scbriml: More good news for the A330 - the UK Tanker deal is given the go-ahead by the Government UK Govt Agrees £13bn Tanker Deal (by Scbriml Jun 6 2007 in
71 A340313X: Where do you get your numbers for the A3? I have found between 68,240lbs and 72,000lbs....
72 CygnusChicago: Don't worry Aminobwana, I'd sure as you've always maintained about Airbus products, that these aircraft were a mix of discounted way below cost and f
77 Aminobwana: You have said it better than I did !! Unfortunately, this is not funny, but very serious given the financial situation of Airbus ! Your opinion about
78 Jacobin777: ....I'm telling you, I cannot wait to see the "green shamrock" come to SFO..
79 EI321: I assume you mean this one: Is there any particular reason to suggest that it is incorrect? The figures do seem to concur with his statement - the A3
80 OceansWorld: Thanks for the link. Will be very useful.
81 Khobar: "Executives with Emirates and Singapore airlines, as well as International Lease Finance Corp., Airbus' biggest customer, all said details have been
82 EGNR: Is it beyond the realms of possibility that RR could provide an attractive engine package now for both the A330s and A350s EI has ordered?
83 KrisYYZ: Quoting A340313X (Reply 76): *bookmarks page* Fantastic. Thanks. Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 80): Thanks for the link. Will be very useful. you're welc
84 Poitin: Well, just look at what the Greens want to do about highways. Just what makes you think they will support a new runway? If they tie up with FF look f
85 Ikramerica: It took long enough. This was the worst kept secret and least competitive "competition" in the industry. The question was never "will they buy the 787
86 CygnusChicago: Actually, you just quoted yourself, and then agreed with yourself. hehe
87 CygnusChicago: Actually, you just quoted yourself, and then agreed with yourself. hehe A lot of people thought Boeing never had a chance with NWA, AC or Qantas, eit
88 BrianDromey: Actaually the 787 was roumered to be the preferred choice at one stage, and up until quite recently. My guess is that Airbus offered EI these frames
89 EI321: Poitin, theres nothing left to support at this stage, the runway has been granted full planning permission. Once the appeals process is finished, tha
90 EISHN: For those interested in the new interiors, hers a demo of the new Premier seat (a thank you to EI787 for finding it): http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin
91 EIDAA: Why was this an "in the bank" order for years? I don't understand this statement. Do you really think EI would just settle for whatever offer Airbus
92 Columba: But the better product has won when AA and CO order the 787 ??
93 Al2637: Poitin I think you are misrepresenting the Green party a bit there! They DO realise the importance of motorways and airports to the economic success o
94 EIDAA: " target=_blank>http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftl...0>%20 Thanks EI321, interesting read! I couldn't see it on that site, but how long is the appea
95 Scbriml: Huh? There were lots of suggestions that EI would indeed select the 787. I guess it was more competitive than AA or DL ordering the 787 - will they e
96 Smokeyrosco: We call them motorways over here, and believe it or not your right (.... well kinda anyway), the Green party had major problems with T2 (although so
97 Aminobwana: As I have asked now two times to comment my statement no.2 and instead receive nonobjective and unwarranted comments on my question No.1. I conclude
98 OA260: A mate told me about that idea and I didnt belive him about the high speed link!!! Are they on drugs!!! They need to be stopped from even getting any
99 Poitin: Is it funded and more import, has the contract to build it been let? What the Greens will do is cancel it. I've seen it happen too many times. Do I w
100 Poitin: I suspect given the FF massive support for the DUB (NOT!), they will be happy to trade improvements at DUB for the support of the Greens on other "mo
102 Khobar: EI bought the A350 without, apparently, even knowing the seat/mile numbers. That's how close the "battle" was between the 787 and A350.
103 EI321: The Greens are really not a bad crowd. Patricia McKenna has made a very positive contribution as MEP. Some people just fall for the stigma that surro
104 OA260: EI looked at both options and in the end went for the AC that best suited them and their needs in line with the rest of the fleet. Makes sense to hav
105 Glideslope: That's a little too optimistic, IMO.
107 EI321: Taking options 11 years away is optimistic? One of the most amusing sides of this website is watching a certain fraternity scramble over themselves i
108 Trex8: I believe QR has "backtracked" on their engines and gone with the E!-A4B on their -300s and any new -200s which has a thrust bump feature making the
109 Khobar: Fabricate? Sorry to disappoint you, but no. Comments from EK, SQ, ILFC. - as of June 5, 2007, Airbus has not provided the seat/mile data to potential
110 Scbriml: Well, EI obviously thought they had enough information to make a selection following "an extensive evaluation process" . Makes you wonder.
111 CygnusChicago: As the article says: "Chief Executive Dermot Mannion ... credited Airbus with being "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787"
112 Legoguy: No, you never fail to disappoint us. You always appear with some type of comment suggesting why Boeing lost the order to Airbus. And EI321 is right..
113 2wingtips: And to think EI could have had 2008 788 slots. Extraordinary fleet planning vision..................not!!! And one wonders what EI really know about X
114 A340313X: Check above in the thread - there's a detailed discussion. The A330-300X added the centre fuel tank from the A330-200, the E is an updated version of
115 Mariner: So are you saying - without all the facts at your disposal - that the management of Aer Lingus is incompetent? mariner
116 2wingtips: Maybe. Political interference maybe. Initial reluctance to jump at new technology maybe. I don't know. But they could have had 2008 788 slots. That i
117 Mariner: So - you are ready to make a judgement, when you admit that only Aer Lingus has all the facts? mariner
118 2wingtips: I don't think EI has ever been regarded as one of the world's premium carriers with a top-line fleet planning dept. BTW, what judgement did I make? I
119 Clickhappy: The point he is making is how can EI have "All the facts" while a much larger (and influential) customer like EK has pubicly said that "We just don't
120 Mariner: You are saying this is not a judgement? ??? mariner
121 Khobar: Yup, money talks,,, By all means, do please show where I am fabricating the comments of potential customers. The article cited by the OP does not con
122 AirNZ: Just wondering if they had ordered the 787 would they suddenly have been an 'important customer'?
123 PlaneHunter: Hopefully Airbus knew that before they made their offer and has added an extra charge to the list price... The question rather is: What have EK offic
124 Pilot21: When Boeing themselves keep saying the B787 is sold out until the back end of 2013, why do you think EI could have recieved B788 slots in 2008??
125 BrianDromey: Its is far more likely that EK needs to push the A350 harder than EI will. Looking to the west MAX range should plonk the A350 somewhere in teh middl
126 Toulouse: Firstly congratulations to EI and Airbus. Secondly, why, oh why do we have to be faced with the same RUBBISH from a FEW of our American a.netters when
127 Toulouse: Here's the official Airbus press-release: Aer Lingus chooses Airbus' A350 XWB and the A330-300 6 June 2007 Aer Lingus, Ireland's national carrier, has
128 EIDAA: Happy to get that off your chest Toulouse?? Well said. It really is frustrating that these threads always turn into a Boeing is better than Airbus ba
129 OA260: Toulouse I totally agree with everything you said . I for one would have been equally as delighted with a 787 order. In fact during the first part of
130 Pilot21: Very well said EIDAA and Toulouse. As the threader starter, I was lucky enough to catch the EI order headline and put it on the board for those of us
131 Danny: There is no credible source to confirm that EK hasn't got enough information except for manipulated article by this clown Clickwallace. QR and Finnai
132 Slz396: Has it ever popped up in your mind these statements from EK or SQ may not contradict EI in any way, but just show that some airlines want quantified
133 LifelinerOne: Well, BA said this week that they had "sufficient data" on the A350. So, thats another airline who knows enough. It could be that what EK is seeing i
134 Clydenairways: There is one possibility that may have swung the order and that is how much weight either aircraft could have lifted off dublins short runway. I would
135 Thorben: I think the English word for it is "jealousy" Here is one "American" who takes it easy and is a real aviation enthusiast.
136 Slz396: Another proof of my theory that depending on just how aggressively they want to negotiate with both manufacturers on the price.... BA as a large airl
137 EI321: I was wondering how long it would take before someone dug up this one. These spurious excuses are starting to sound plain ridiculous. Your seem to be
138 Scbriml: You missed 9 ) The airline is only a crappy, fluffy, low-quality one, so the order doesn't really count.
139 Joni: Then Mannion does appear to be better informed. Flanagan OTOH seems to be exaggerating, or perhaps it's that the seat-mile details for some Emirates
140 Danny: Nice picture. Is it just me or the airport is begging to get new crosswind runaway on its western side? This would allow to remove rwy 16-34, which w
141 Thorben: 10) The A350 operators don't have any future, because the way of the market will be large hubs, low frequencies, and large gas-guzzling four-haulers.
142 EI321: I presume a new cross runway would help. However the problem with it would be related to the reason why the DAA did not propose building terminal 2 o
143 Danny: Which indicates that they are willing "to do business". Privatize DAA and award them shares in return for the land. In the current shape there is jus
144 Toulouse: I was indeed Sir... unfortunately it will just be ignored by those it was aimed at. Thanks. I couldn't agree more with you. I most ctainly hope you w
145 Thorben: Maybe a misunderstanding, I didn't mean myself, but Columba. I myself am German and have a preference for Airbus, but I'm trying to be tolerant. Grea
146 AwyrCymru: A bit late reading the post, but I was away yesterday and as someone whose interest in aviation came from seeing a Boeing 737 of Aer Lingus, I have ha
147 Clickhappy: A quote directly attributed to the executive vice chairman of Emirates Airlines & Group, and printed in a major newspaper, is not a "credible source?
148 EI737NG: Trying to understand why they are buying 6 330's instead of leasing them. They will be old technology when the 350's arrive, I accept that new 330's w
149 EI321: This quote is totally valid, as is the quote from BA that states they were delaying their own decision on the A350. Both of these airlines have somet
150 Columba: Just for another 7 weeks than I will change my flag again
151 Pilot21: EI bought them because they got a fantatstic deal on them. While quite a few leasing companies have the A330 on order, the rates they can charge for
152 Danny: A serious source for information about Airbus is certainly not Boeing Tribune. Anti-American? You just embarrass yourself here. I actually lived ther
153 EI737NG: [Pilot21,reply=151] They obviously got a great deal on them but when they receive the 350's, the 350's must have an effect on the value of the 330's a
154 Danny: Since A332F seems to be selling very well that will help keep higher residual values as the aircraft will be then converted to freighter.
155 Clickhappy: If you think the Seattle PI is pro-Boeing, simply because Boeing makes airplanes in Seattle, you are very much mistaken. Both the PI and James Wallace
156 NorCal: First of all, it is a direct quote from someone high up in EK management. If Wallace had misquoted then EK would have said something by now. Wallace
157 RayChuang: I think the primary reason why EI bought the A330-300E was because of its commonality with the A330-300's that EI has been flying for over a decade. A
158 Danny: SQ committed to XWB a year ago in Farnborough. QR with 80 XWBs and up to 60 787s will hardly be a tiny player. Also since you consider EI to be so cr
159 Scbriml: No, you've got that wrong. Delivery of their options, if converted to firm orders, would stretch out to 2018. In other words, all their orders and op
160 Clickhappy: I never said Aer Lingus was a crappy airline. Stop spreading lies and misquotes, you look like you have an axe to grind. If you can't make your point(
161 Danny: This is just how you want to see it. I see QR's purchase of both XWB and 787 as a normal business decision to diversify risk and get competitive pric
162 Danny: No you said: suggesting that EI could not get 787 so they had to go with XWB which is obvious nonsense.
163 Clickhappy: Come on Danny, you are spinning this whole thread. It is laughable. If anyone says anything about Aer Lingus OR Airbus you turn into a little Napoleon
164 EI321: I agree with you there, they are definitely critical of Boeing from time to time. I also am of the opinion that like any mainstream paper they have a
165 PanAm_DC10: Actually EI was one of the initial customers along with UX which held re-fundable delivery slots for 2008 dlivery 787-8s. It's just that they chose n
166 Toulouse: Sorry about that Thorben. I had always thought you were German, but when I read that I thought, oh well maybe he's an American living in Germany! We
167 BrianDromey: Well looking at the list of customers, EI would certinly be up there with the list of 'prestige' carriers. 8 - LOT 1 - Travel Service 15- Virgin Atla
168 Clickhappy: Not everything Boeing does is good. Not everything Airbus does is good. Both are comapnies, run by real people, that make mistakes. Airbus has yet to
169 Smokeyrosco: I'm not sure how much influence ILFC would have on any aircraft build or design, they are not the ones that operate it, they just buy and lease. SQ a
170 OA260: LO and VS are the only two id compare to EI !!! The rest are well behind EI .
172 Clickhappy: I'm not sure how much influence ILFC would have on any aircraft build or design
173 Khobar: When someone makes a comment, the same a.netters jump up and down screaming "childish". Hypocricy, anyone? The A350 is an excellent choice for EI. Th
174 EIDAA: Clickhappy is correct here with the " " ... The important thing is who buys them, ILFC are a very important customer to both and have quite a lot of
175 Toulouse: Care to explain that? I totally agree with you. Again I totally agree with you. Exactly, that's your opinion as that's what you believe, doesn't mean
176 EIDAA: Hi Khobar, my agreement with Toulouse was simply in relation to the general way in which threads like this tend to go. It was not an attack on you in
177 Toulouse: That is very well put, and may I also add Khobar that I at no time intended to attack you, my comments were also quite generalised.
178 Khobar: Thank you for your comments. Of course it's my opinion with regards to the 787 consideration, you are correct. But it can't be anything more than tha
179 Joni: A further point to be made is that Mannion didn't say he knew "the fuel-burn figures", but that he'd received the impression (based doubtless on infor
180 Khobar: But EI's CEO is quoted as saying he believed Airbus to have the better numbers. He believed? That doesn't indicate he had any information and that he
181 Toulouse: You could be right. My gut instinct always told me this order would go to Airbus. My sources in Airbus always seemed fairly optimistic as well. Yet t
182 EIDAA: Yes, I was expressing frustration in general with certain attitudes, but your post was not the reason for my entering the debate. That was down to co
183 Joni: That also doesn't indicate he had no information, and somehow I'd tend to assume an airline requires "some" information before signing off hundreds o
184 Thorben: When you come back, we might actually be almost neighbours, haha. I'm a German in Germany, but I lived in the US for a while. Before fingerprinting.
185 BrianDromey: Interesting posing..... Given that the A350 is further down the line than the 787, there is likely to be a wider data set to gain information from, ma
186 CygnusChicago: Firstly, since neither the 787 nor the A350 have yet flown, the executives of any airline that purchase one of these, subscribes "believes" the fuel
187 EI321: Ive never really thought of that. Airlines that have been signing up to the A350 or any aircraft will also be signing fuel burn guarantees. We can re
188 Khobar: The root cause comment pertained to the source of your frustrations - I think you were allowing yourself to get sucked into the B/AB abyss by assumin
189 EI321: While we dont have the figures at hand, look at whats on the table. The CEO says better range and better fuel burn than the 787. Aerodynamics A350 is
190 Joni: As noted, what he said doesn't indicate he wouldn't have had any information. And reading it in context, it implies (even if doesn't indicate) that h
191 Kaitak: It could well have been based on performance guarantees? Airbus may have promised specific guarantees relating to seat-mile costs, range ex-DUB and ot
192 2wingtips: This weeks FI is reporting the EI order to be for 3 -800XWBs and 3 -900XWBs with 6 options. I think that's new info?
193 Kaitak: Surprising; I had expected all six to be -900s. Still, I guess some -800s were to be expected. Thanks for the info, 2wingtips!
194 Thorben: Indeed a surprise, I thought they would all be the same version. But now they have more flexibility. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...l-brings-
195 EI321: Er, notice anything different with the A350 in that picture?
196 Thorben: The cockpit windows are different, it looks like a 787, and the is no shamrock on the engines, like on their new A330s.
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