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RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf  
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 656 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4027 times:

RUMOR:

According to sources, AC Jazz has issued an internal memo for a station manager and customer service reps. for CYKF with service to YOW and YUL using a Dash-8.

To correlate with this rumour, the Region of Waterloo is proposing a 2-year Master Plan which would turn all of Apron 3 into ramp space for airline aircraft (Saab 340/Mesaba, A320/SkyService, B737/WestJet, Dash-8/AC Jazz, and a Metroliner/Bearskin). These changes would force the FBO beside the terminal to arrive/depart all aircraft on Apron 2 (currently the "de-ice" ramp to the left of the tower) and transport them back to their facility using ground vehicles.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Does this mean having a YKF-YOW-YUL flight on the same aircraft, or 2 seperate flights YKF-YOW and YKF-YUL?

Anyways great for YKF. I always felt that for a metro area of almost 500,000 they did not have adequate air service, partly due to their proximity to Greater Toronto.


User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting Noise (Reply 1):
Anyways great for YKF. I always felt that for a metro area of almost 500,000 they did not have adequate air service, partly due to their proximity to Greater Toronto.

I totally agree. And when you add into the mix stuff like nearby Guelph, etc, there are bound to be around 700,000 residents that would prefer flying from Waterloo than Toronto.

Especially with the way Waterloo's economy is booming right now, I think its about time they got some decent scheduled service (in addition to WestJet's new offerings that is).


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3758 times:

Isn't the Kitchener Metro Area supposed to surpass London as the #4 metro area in Ontario sometime soon? Anyway if there is a need to divert some air traffic away from YYZ to more local airports such as YHM or YKF, then this is one step in that direction.

User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

One thing I forgot to say...

I think that although many of these local areas (ex. Hamilton, Waterloo, London, etc) have alot of residents and most likely a high demand for air travel as well, the key thing will be getting airlines to service the void. With both Air Canada and WestJet hubbed at Pearson (although WestJet to a lesser degree), from their perspective they probably don't want to erode the travel base that they currently enjoy and utilize at Pearson, even if it would be more convenient for consumers to travel from their local airports.

Hopefully that made some sense! Big grin


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3680 times:
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Quoting Pacifica (Reply 2):
Especially with the way Waterloo's economy is booming right now, I think its about time they got some decent scheduled service (in addition to WestJet's new offerings that is).

And just wait 'til that hockey team moves north ...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineYYZYHZ From Canada, joined May 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

I hope this is true..I'm from Waterloo Region but live in Nova Scotia...I WOULD love to to connect in Ottawa/Montreal and fly to an airport 10-15 minutes from my house!


Travelled on Dash 8-300, A319, A320, A321, A330, B737, B747, B757, B767, E75
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3453 times:

While the additional service does not surprise me, there are three points which I find interesting:

1) Bearskin is shown in the Yellow Pages as flying from YKF-YOW, yet service has not commenced and is rumored not to begin until Fall 2007.

2) The alleged changes to the ramp space - namely Apron 3 - and the logistical nightmare it would create for the FBO to arrive/depart aircraft utilizing their facilities.

3) The terminal was recently renovated although not to the original plans due to budget concerns. Now that there is increased air service even three years after the completion of the renovations, the terminal is too small for the number of flights and passengers. Mesaba currently is taking the brunt of the inconveniences with their check-in areas in an attempt by the Airport Authority to appease the likes of WestJet and SkyService but the question remains, when there is no space available within a terminal for check-in (or more realistically for waiting lounges), then what options remain other than more renovations?

There are solutions for the airport, but significant concessions would be required on the part of the FBO, Airport Authority and airlines to come to a feasible solution.


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

You've got to think YOW-YKF and YUL-YKF service will happen within the next few months. If Bearskin does it, I doubt they'll fly YUL-YKF, since JV's scheduled ops are solely within ON & MB. If Jazz does it, which makes the most sense, I'd expect 2x daily YOW-YKF service and 3x daily YUL-YKF service on Dash 8s.

YKF's terminal is way too small. It must be rough in the mornings right now with NW and WS going out within an hour of one another.


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

How small is their terminal exactly?

User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 5):
And just wait 'til that hockey team moves north ...

Hey! You're not getting our Predators!!!

In reality, you probably are. This is a one sport town. Good luck!


User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 10):
Hey! You're not getting our Predators!!!

In reality, you probably are. This is a one sport town. Good luck!

I just can't wait for Balsillie to move the team (and for the NHL to give approval lol). The battle for Ontario just got kicked up a notch! Big grin


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Hmm.. if they're needing station attendants, I'd put in for that.


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 11):
I just can't wait for Balsillie to move the team (and for the NHL to give approval lol). The battle for Ontario just got kicked up a notch! Big grin

Who says they're going to Ontario ?  bouncy 



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 13):
Who says they're going to Ontario ?

The local paper here in Nashville is indicating that if he moves (dependant on next season's attendance lease clause and assuming it won't be met), the Preds are going to Hamilton.


User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 14):
The local paper here in Nashville is indicating that if he moves (dependant on next season's attendance lease clause and assuming it won't be met), the Preds are going to Hamilton.

Only half correct.  Wink

Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).

Actually that makes more sense to me. Kitchener-Waterloo & London probably make up ~ 1M population or thereabouts, and both Waterloo & London have lots of corporate HQs -- unlike Hamilton. IIRC Copps Coliseum also does not have a lot (any?) luxury suites etc to leverage income.

I just wonder if Balsillie can get the governments to pay for the arena. But they shouldn't. It's his team, let him pat for it.
I hope he has another $200M to spend.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2914 times:

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 16):
I just wonder if Balsillie can get the governments to pay for the arena. But they shouldn't. It's his team, let him pat for it.
I hope he has another $200M to spend.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines that RIM, a huge Waterloo based high tech firm (known for making the BlackBerry, or as some here call it, the CrackBerry lol) that Jim co-founded, would step up to the plate and sponsor the new stadium deal alongside the Region of Waterloo. But honestly, who knows?


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2904 times:

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early.

OK, our paper didn't mention this, only about the Hamilton part. They did indicate it's proximity to Toronto and Buffalo might be an issue. As for the team meeting the needed goal of averaging 14,000 next year, that seems iffy. They have a core fan base, but little corporate support. Despite being in the running for the President's Cup most of the season, the only guaranteed sellouts are when the Red Wings come to town, and much of that crowd is transplanted Detroiters, which is one of the things that has been a sore spot for Leipold ever since they began play. If they do reach the 14,000 level, then it is my understanding they cannot move before the end of the 2009 season at earliest, but if the new owner dangles enough $$$ in front of the city, who knows. As I said earlier, this really is a one sport town, and it involves an oblong shaped ball. They sell out every game regardless of how crappy they are. Stay tuned.

Oh, if you guys do get our team, can you at least convince AC to give us back our third BNA-YYZ n/s?  biggrin 


User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2879 times:

Quoting YOW (Reply 8):
YKF's terminal is way too small. It must be rough in the mornings right now with NW and WS going out within an hour of one another

Currently there is no overlap with flights from XJ and WS.

XJ Departs at 06:20, 10:57 and 15:18 Monday-Friday and 10:57, 15:18 Saturday-Sunday using a Saab 340 (up to 35 pax)
WS Departs 18:10 Daily using a B73G/B736 with loads that appear profitable

It remains unknown what schedule Bearskin or AC will have and whether Voyageur will operate again this coming winter using Dash-7s (however, Voyageur used the FBO services and not the terminal)

What remains to be seen is whether WS will continue year-round and how that will affect the terminal, ramp and ground-services should SkyService return. Their departure schedule in the winter was 06:00, 17:00 and 01:00 3-times a week.

Terminal expansion is rumoured to occur on the south side of the terminal where baggage is loaded on to the carts as a short-term measure but as I mentioned previously, significant changes to the ramp are on the table.


User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2873 times:

I hear that the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is trying to buy a Tug for these planes as the airport does not currently have one on the field. YKF and this are are growing really fast and I think the airlines are starting to see this. Give it five years and it will be a big difference.


Member since April 2000
User currently offlineYOWguy From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Also to help with expansion would be the new factory which Toyota is building in Woodstock. There are rumours swirling that Toyota is set to double the size of this factory, before it is even finished.

Although Toyota's head office is in Toronto, with one facility already in Cambridge, the addition of another in Woodstock, the need for Toyota execs to fly to Waterloo airport might be multiplied.


User currently offlineFly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Only half correct.

Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).

Unless 20 years in Interm Don't count on it. The lease being worked on is for 20 years. Also There are a good parts to both cities getting this team(if it happens) in Kitchener Waterloo I don't think Jim would have to pay territorial rights however with Hamilton for all the fans that cant get leaf tickets its easier to get to Hamilton then to Kitchener if you live anywhere between T.O. and Hamilton just hop on the QEW or even better take the Go Train.


Also as far a copps not having boxed it was built in such a way that modifications can easily happen. They can raise the roof on the place.

Anyway There is stiff competition right now among southern ontario airports with YXU YKF YHM and the Crappy Pickering idea.

As far as I can tell YHM is winning.

As far as the Preds go if anyway wants to disscuss this more start something in Non Av.



Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting YOWguy (Reply 21):
facility already in Cambridge, the addition of another in Woodstock, the need for Toyota execs to fly to Waterloo airport might be multiplied

Toyota does not fly their aircraft into YKF as much as one would think - no more than once every 2 months. With that being said, there is a constant stream of Toyota people arriving on the Mesaba flight into YKF - approx. 3 people/week. I do not see this trend changing all that much.

On a larger scale, an increase in private traffic (ie. Toyota) has no bearing on the amount of traffic going through the terminal or using Apron 3A. The Toyota Gulfstream arrives/departs on Apron 3B and overnights on Apron 3C and solely uses the FBO's services.

Relating to the potential move of Predators to YHM, there would be no increase in traffic at YKF. Should the team move to K-W, then it would be interesting to see who handles the chartered aircraft of the away team. The aircraft would most certainly have to use Apron 3A, but I would suspect that busses would be escorted airside thereby eliminating the terminal facilities again. Overnighting aircraft could be placed on Apron 3C.

It is also rumoured that SkyBus is considering YKF as they conducted 2 route proving runs to the airport and were in discussion with the Airport Authority as a viable alternative to YYZ.

Quoting AC777LR (Reply 20):
Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is trying to buy a Tug for these planes as the airport does not currently have one on the field.

This rumour is unconfirmed from who I have spoken to on the field. In addition, it would make more sense for Airways to acquire a tug since they do the ground handling for WS and SkyService. If not Airways, it would be far-fetched for the FBO to acquire a tug and even less likely for WWFC to acquire one seeing as though they have no involvement in the turn-around of either airline.


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 23):
If not Airways, it would be far-fetched for the FBO to acquire a tug and even less likely for WWFC to acquire one seeing as though they have no involvement in the turn-around of either airline.

If Jazz show up on scene, you'll get that tug. I was at YYZ yesterday for the first time in awhile. I was surprised to see Jazz Dash 8s being pulled around with tractors...something you'd only ordinarily see at small airports.

I didn't realize the WS departure was in the evening. If it's doing well, that's great to hear considering the flight only connects to 8 additional cities. Just think of how well a morning departure would do.


25 Connies4ever : Any info yet on how WS is doing YKF - YYC ? Also I'm wondering with the K-W area being such a software hotbed, how long before a YKF - YVR route devel
26 Post contains images N1120A : It makes sense. I would have used the 3 letter code though, because that allows a scroll over. Actually, the airport isn't in Waterloo proper, only W
27 Yow : Small enough to make YQG's terminal look huge in comparison.
28 YVRtoYYZ : While not getting into specifics, the loads are high enough to be profitable using a B73G. There was a B736 in on Friday however it is unknown whethe
29 GoBlue : So here is thinking that AC needs to expand not only Kitchener-Waterloo, but London and Hamilton. Logisitically how hard would it be for AC to base a
30 Pacifica : I think the main problem here is that with an AC superhub just miles down the road at YYZ, they don't want to dilute their connection feed through th
31 N1120A : I know that, but by proximity, it is closer to Cambridge than to Waterloo And calling it Kitchener Airport would be far more accurate than calling it
32 YVRtoYYZ : I would be very surprised to see AC offering any more services from YKF other than to YOW and YUL. If one uses YHM as a reference, AC offers service
33 Noise : How does air service at YKF compare to YXU?
34 CAPTYXU : Air Canada Jazz theres about 12 daily trips from YXU-YYZ Dash 100 and 300 Air Canada Jazz once daily YXU-YOW-YUL Dash 100 and 300 Air Canada Jazz YXU-
35 N1120A : It doesn't. YXU gets much more commercial traffic.
36 YOW : Skyservice could care less whether their aircraft is 100% full or 100% empty out of YKF. It's the tour operators paying 5G to charter their aircraft
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