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Emirates Unveils A380 Seat Plan  
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20253 times:

Vancouver: Emirates airline, the largest customer of Airbus A380 superjumbo aircraft, will carry a jaw-dropping 644 passengers in some of the 47 planes it has on order when it begins receiving them next year.

Maurice Flanagan, vice chairman and group president, said Emirates will design its A380s in three separate seating configurations tailor made to different routes. The highest density configuration will seat 644 in business and economy with no first class.

Routes to Sydney, Melbourne and New York will be served by a three-class configuration carrying 490 passengers, while so-called "11-hour routes" such as Dubai-London will also have three classes and carry 514 passengers, Flanagan said.


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"We'll fill the planes," he promised. "At the moment, there are destinations where we just can't get the seats for them - New York and Heathrow, for example."

Emirates is the eighth largest carrier by international traffic, and a recent report by Boston Consulting Group noted they could become the largest international airline by 2012, partly due to its expansion with the A380s. The revelations for the first time offer a detailed look at how the Dubai-based airline plans to use its mammoth order of double-decker planes. But while industry experts say Emirates will profit from integrating the new planes into its network, they note having three different seating plans for the A380 fleet could be risky.

David Field, an editor with Airline Business magazine, said the plans usher in a string of firsts for an airline already known for innovation.

"There have been some 500 seat configurations (for the A380), but no other airline has announced more than one configuration, and no one has announced anything over 550 seats."

He added, "Emirates has an extremely good reputation in the industry as a high quality and highly profitable airline, so anything they do, people would look at very carefully."

Caution

But he also cautioned that in an era where the airline industry strives to simplify business plans, three different seating plans could constrain the airline if complications arose.

"The more complexity you add to different configurations, the more pitfalls you set up all the way down the line," he said. "Granted, they have a big fleet, but airlines in the US, who have dedicated one fleet type to a specific route have always run into problems. What happens when an airplane gets sick?"



Looks like we are going to have some cramped up passenger for the shorter routes like the subcontinent.


The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuan911411 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20179 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
Emirates airline, the largest customer of Airbus A380 superjumbo aircraft, will carry a jaw-dropping 644 passengers in some of the 47 planes it has on order when it begins receiving them next year.

I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table. lol. but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane???? any idea if the first class customers will want to board first and sit there and wait and wait, or will they just want to stick around the companies lounge just a little bit longer. Can't wait to see a A380 in person.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13271 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20136 times:
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Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
"We'll fill the planes," he promised. "At the moment, there are destinations where we just can't get the seats for them - New York and Heathrow, for example."

For the first few years, I have no doubts.

Out years? Depends on Bi-lateral negotiations with India and China.

644 seats...  wideeyed  (No F)

versus 490 in the "high yield market" configuration...  scratchchin 

I think they can do it. Those triple skybridge gates had better open up soon!  Wink  crowded 


Personally, I had predicted two seating plans... three surprises me... But EK makes great money so they have something in their business plan that I do not know about.

I just wonder if they could turn DXB/JXB (or will it be JXL?) into a "rolling hub". They have enough flights around the clock for LHR, DOH, and for all I know a few other DXB city pairs are close enough. (SYD? Auckland via all the different ways you can get there?) It would take a new Bilateral, but BOM, DEL, and a few other Indian cities could support enough frequency to be part of a "rolling hub." Just a thought...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20102 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table. lol. but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane????

Well the 644 pax number is only for certain ac, AF does the same to with 77W's they have a high density version with no F.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
"The more complexity you add to different configurations, the more pitfalls you set up all the way down the line," he said. "Granted, they have a big fleet, but airlines in the US, who have dedicated one fleet type to a specific route have always run into problems. What happens when an airplane gets sick?"

Would be the case if they didn't have fleet of 45+.
IMO EK is making a smart move by configuring their fleet according to their network. They won't have a problem filling those high density 380's in and out of India IMO.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19997 times:
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If they put in enough "slack planes" to handle MX and positioning issues, EK should be fine. 47+ gives them plenty of frames to work with.

User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19921 times:

I wish EK luck. We shall see what we shall see in the coming years. I am really interested in learning just what they are going to do with 47 or whatever number of A380s.

User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19848 times:

What's the difference between a 490-514 plane with 3-class and a 644 plane with only 2 classes? Will economy be significantly different? I wouldn't have thought so.

So what's the problem?


User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19848 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):

I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table. lol. but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane????

If they board on both floors it should be like boarding a 340 and a 777, I can't imagine that it would be that hard.


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2560 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19794 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table. lol. but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane????

Well the 644 pax number is only for certain ac, AF does the same to with 77W's they have a high density version with no F.

I think the lower density configurations will just conatin the 1st class "sky suites" and not things like casinos, piano bars, etc. Those all look nice in conceptual setups, but in the real world, you have to fill the spaces with paying customers


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19707 times:

I'm stunned that EK will have both a 490 and a 514 seat configuration. There is not much difference in that. The scheduling inefficiencies of having an extra subfleet for such a small difference doesn't seem worthwhile to me, but EK have had ample time to run the numbers.

User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19683 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane???? any idea if the first class customers will want to board first and sit there and wait and wait, or will they just want to stick around the companies lounge just a little bit longer.

The 644 seat configuration has no first class section, so the answer to your question is: 'until they realise they should be on another plane'.


User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19626 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table. lol. but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane???? any idea if the first class customers will want to board first and sit there and wait and wait, or will they just want to stick around the companies lounge just a little bit longer. Can't wait to see a A380 in person.

550 took only 25 minutes during our flight from FRA to JFK, so I assume up to 40min. it'll take.


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19443 times:

The Seating Plans were announced way back in 2005 , i had mentioned it in one of the "A380 Seating Threads", i had come across the same layout while doing my Project work on them.

Of course that was before an extended 12 mth delay for the A380 was known, but there seems to be no change in plans as far as seating goes.

Karan


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19339 times:

Oh my god, 644 people....I can see it now..just after they take the trays away after your meal in economy, and everybody heads off to the toilet. You turn around and say those loving words to your partner.......I am off to the toilet, I will see you in a couple of hours!!  Big grin

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19277 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 13):
Oh my god, 644 people....I can see it now..just after they take the trays away after your meal in economy, and everybody heads off to the toilet. You turn around and say those loving words to your partner.......I am off to the toilet, I will see you in a couple of hours!!

smart post..... as if they don't have more toilets then an average 747.... dont worry, due to more floor space there will be ample waiting for the toilets.. there will be enough, you can go anywhere, front, back, down, up.... enough ways to move and walk..


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19258 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
Looks like we are going to have some cramped up passenger for the shorter routes like the subcontinent.

Not necessarily. Remember that thiey will have no first class on those planes. Also remember that the A380 has around 50 percent more floor space than a 744, so 644 people in an A380 equals 429 seats in a 744. That's not so bad if there's only business and economy seats on board.

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
but for real how long will it take to put in 644 people on an airplane????

In my experience, the bottleneck in the boarding process is the aisles. One person struggling to get his tax-free bags into the overhead locker can hold up 235 other passengers flying together with him on a single-aisle 757 in charter configuration.

On the A380, the passengers will be divided between four aisles. So assuming that the lower deck will carry twice as many seats as the upper deck, there will be 107 passengers per aisle on the upper deck, and 215 passengers per aisle on the lower deck. That's less than on a charter 752 and only slightly more than on a charter 738 or A321.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19185 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 15):
assuming that the lower deck will carry twice as many seats as the upper deck

Is not gonna happen. Latest figures show only one seat less per row for the upper deck. so it will be 9 against 10 per row.

KL911


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19072 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
Is not gonna happen. Latest figures show only one seat less per row for the upper deck. so it will be 9 against 10 per row.

Your logic is flawed, for several reasons:

1. All figures and seat maps so far have shown eight seats per row, not nine, on the upper deck.

2. Business class will presumably go on the upper deck, probably at six-abreast, with one row's pitch equalling 1.5 rows in economy class. Thus, 12 seats in business on the upper deck will take up the same length of the plane as 30 seats in economy on the lower deck.

3. The lower deck is longer than the upper deck. There will probably be room for 70-80 economy seats in that area on the lower deck which is unusable space on the upper deck.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 18993 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 17):
2. Business class will presumably go on the upper deck, probably at six-abreast, with one row's pitch equalling 1.5 rows in economy class. Thus, 12 seats in business on the upper deck will take up the same length of the plane as 30 seats in economy on the lower deck.

True, but here won't be an all business class upper deck. Only the front part, aftyer that it's economy again. Don't forget we're talking about a 2 class layout. I just wanted to say that a 1:2 ratio upper deck - lower deck is not going to happen on a 2 class layout.

KL911


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 18980 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
"The more complexity you add to different configurations, the more pitfalls you set up all the way down the line," he said. "Granted, they have a big fleet, but airlines in the US, who have dedicated one fleet type to a specific route have always run into problems. What happens when an airplane gets sick?"

Don't the likes of BA already have several different 744 configurations, so it's not that unusual...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4033 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 18460 times:

What is the largest seat count for a high-density 747 right now? 570? 644 is not too many more.


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User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13271 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17967 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
I'm stunned that EK will have both a 490 and a 514 seat configuration. There is not much difference in that. The scheduling inefficiencies of having an extra subfleet for such a small difference doesn't seem worthwhile to me, but EK have had ample time to run the numbers.

I would agree (alluded to in reply 2).
But if those markets generate enough premium revenue to justify...

Is it just me, or does the a.net community seem to be more interested in EK and their A380 plans than Singapore Airlines? I'm very curious as to what the launch routes will be.  Smile


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17881 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 18):
True, but here won't be an all business class upper deck. Only the front part, aftyer that it's economy again

Of course, but the biz seats that will be there will take up a lot of space. Let me just crucnh some numbers for you:

Let's take the EK 77W as an example, as this is the largest two-class airplane in EK's fleet today. It's got 49 biz and 385 eco seats, which is 11.3 percent biz seats.

If we assume that the A380 will have the same proportions, then this means 73 biz seats and 571 eco seats.

Those biz seats will take up the same length of the plane as 182 eco seats on the lower deck. Add 70 eco seats on the lower deck for the space which is unused on the upper deck. We now have 252 eco seats on the lower deck. That means that there's 319 eco seats left. 319 divided by 18 seats per row means 17.72 rows. That means 17.72 x 8 = 142 seats on the upper deck, and 17.72 x 10 = 178 seats on the lower deckl.

The summary of the above calculation shows 215 seats on the upper deck, and 430 seats on the lower deck. It's exactly twice as many as on the upper deck.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17852 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 1):
Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
Emirates airline, the largest customer of Airbus A380 superjumbo aircraft, will carry a jaw-dropping 644 passengers in some of the 47 planes it has on order when it begins receiving them next year.

I guess all the talk of casino, bars and hair salons are off the table.

I dont see what all the fuss is about. There are already bars, masseuse, etc on some 747's. The shower is the one that interests me.

[Edited 2007-06-08 01:38:10]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 17194 times:

I fly regularly on both 2-class and 3-class EK planes....

...their 2-class services will be for intra-Asia routes....

....here is a photo of J-class on their A332 (2-class)-seat 1K



...here is a photo of Y-class on their A332 (3-class)



here is a photo I took recently of basically an empty A332 (2-class), I've been on a few of these kinds of flights..what they do is if the flight is empty, they delay the flight and then fill it up with cargo..



Here is a photo I took a couple of months ago on their B773 (non-ER & 3-class) to LHR-remember, they have 10-across....it was basically a packed plane (8-10 seats empty)..I was fortunate to get an exit row... biggrin 

....it doesn't seem as if people complain about 10-across because the seat pitch is a whopping 34' for Y-class on their B773's....

pardon the bad photo (and the "pregnant"-looking guy-LoL!), I took it from my PDA.. Sad




"Up the Irons!"
25 ComeAndGo : You like recycled soap water ? Emirates always stated they intended to use every square inch of space for seats and not for the Airbus's hyped bowlin
26 KL911 : You'll be surprised..... And even then there will be much more space and legroom then in a 747. ANd I know there will be something very special on EK
27 Ikramerica : Well, they discuss the "11 hour" flights having 514 seats while longer flights have 490 seats. Methinks cutting 25 seats is for range? With 47 of the
28 KL911 : LHR-DUB should only be around 6 or 7 hours right? So why the small difference in seats? KL911
29 Zvezda : Personally, I'm more interested in SQ than EK. The launch route will be SIN-SYD daily. Of course scheduling three subfleets can be done. However, it
30 B777ER : Why is everyone getting their skirts bunched up over a "jaw dropping 644 seats"?? Is not this plane designed for 800+ passengers? 644 is not close to
31 Boeing7E7 : What do you mean no "F"%$#.... LOL
32 707lvr : We're still worrying ourselves over full A-380's. If it's cheap enough, pax will fly standing on their heads in the cargo bay. As for the airlines, I'
33 Chinaeastern : I was always under the impression that EK were going to have 700+ seats in some of their 380s and 644 is definaitely not a big deal. As they can fit 1
34 Post contains images B777ER : good one.
35 Post contains images UAL777UK : Oh really...thanks for telling me that!
36 Post contains images 6YJJK : Well, I hope you can't go anywhere, or that cabin's gonna smell real bad real fast.
37 Post contains images UAEflyer : It is JXB All of you will change your mind when you will try the EK A380 , it will be a revolution in the aviation industry
38 Philzh : I for one am very much looking forward to being able to do so. While I think SQs new interiors are aesthetically much more pleasing than EKs SkySuite
39 Icarus75 : !11 hours from DXB to LHR? Did I miss something?
40 UAEflyer : Oh really, how i missed that, it is 7 hours not 11?? is it Emirates Charmian who said that or this press release is not accurate
41 Ncelhr : you are absolutely correct. In addition, the aisles are wider than the ones found on the current aircraft, which means that when someone is taking th
42 Jlb : The "11 hour" plane might not have crew rest (or the same amount of crew rest) that they'll need for the very long haul planes. That could probably a
43 Post contains images RedChili : They're taking the shortcut via BOM! Seriously, they probably mean that the two different configurations will operate on flights "up to 11 hours" and
44 Zvezda : The WhaleJet doesn't have enough cargo space to put crew rest there. The normal crew rest space on the WhaleJet is all the way aft on the upper deck.
45 Jfk777 : I can understand the no First Class version for serving India and 3 hour regional routes. 490 & 514 seem very close with First Class, it seems to me t
46 Stitch : Or EK will not put the private cabins in F on both versions, which would take up more floor space - kinda like the A345 vs. the 77W now.
47 Post contains images Solnabo : Have you ever been in a 747 w 570 seats? Guess not, cuz they are the mother of all sardin cans, A380 wont have any problem w 644 seat config Micke//
48 Post contains images Lightsaber : I'll go negative on the A380? Seriously, the only thing I don't understand is the 3 seating versus two. The 644 and 515 seat versions make sense. I'd
49 Post contains images Readytotaxi : Can you imagine 644 clearing customs at JFK on top of the usual arrivals, just how friendly are those imigration people going to be then? NEXT ! !
50 Brendows : The A380s for 644pax will most likely fly to India and Pakistan, and to some other countries in the Middle East.
51 Post contains links PC12Fan : If EK would go all economy, they cuold get 850+ on it! Not with the staggered system from what I hear. http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk./images/sket
52 Naritaflyer : I can't understand all the excitement about 650 people deplaning at the same time or the supposed chaos at baggage carroussels. We get 5, 6, 7, or 10
53 AndrewUber : When did DXB-LHR become an 11 hour flight??? I've flown it several times and it's in the 6-7 hr range.
54 Ikramerica : Or no crew rest at all. Maybe that's part of it. The 11-hour (and less) routes don't get a crew rest with beds (just a pilot rest and some seats for
55 Post contains images PC12Fan : As mentioned by nearly everyone, EK may go with 11 abreast, in the conventional configuration, I just gave the link to give the idea of the pax count
56 Post contains images StarCityFlyr : The size of the plane is phenomenal but the fact that they're going to squeeze that many people into that much space leaves me cold. I wouldn't want t
57 David_itl : Only those routes? MAN is currently with 2 77W(HD)s per day i.e. with the 434 seaters already and the flight are pretty full (Off the top of my head
58 Cure : ...or airlines' employees having to reprotect that amount of people after such cancelled flight?! Guess they'll keep entire hotels booked when there'
59 Juan911411 : wow you are so smart, thanks for the sarcastic comment.
60 Ikramerica : I tend to agree. While I am going to fly a revenue A380 flight as soon as possible, I still prefer flying on a smaller widebody just for overall ease
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