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F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction  
User currently offlineNZblue From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 638 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

Quite a lot of stuff going on in today's Denver Post article:

Frontier plans to add seats, offer e-mail

excerpt:

Passengers on some Frontier Airlines flights who like a little extra legroom might want to be careful where they sit, as the carrier plans to add seats to planes and squeeze seats closer together, particularly in back. While Frontier is installing new trimline leather seats in its planes, which will reduce weight and save on fuel costs, it also plans to add four seats to its A318 and A319 airplanes, according to chief financial officer Paul Tate at the company's analyst and investor summit today.

Frontier has touted its extra legroom, but the margin will narrow as the trimline seats reduce seat pitch to 32 inches from 33 inches on the A318 and A319 planes. Tate said the seats still feel roomy. But several rows in the back will have seats with a 31 inch pitch.

Frontier Airlines also said it plans to offer e-mail and text messaging in flight. Frontier hopes to offer the capability on passengers' own devices such as laptops by the end of this year, Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas said. The service will not offer Web access, he said. "Our feeling is what people really want is access to productivity, which is e-mail, not sort of Web surfing on the plane," Hodas said.

Tate also discussed the airline's consideration of "branded seat inventory," meaning selling extra options to travelers such as Air Canada does.

And for Frontier, "we feel like the hub has kind of reached a maturity level as far as depth and breadth of it," Happ said. Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from Acapulco service.


[Edited 2007-06-07 22:14:55]


It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6873 times:

I hope the new seats have adjustable headrests like the current ones do. Also looking at other carriers A319 configs i'm betting F9 will add the 4 seats in front of the exit row, making the window seats behind it have no seat in front of them. I'm annoyed the overall seat pitch will go down.

User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

OK help me out here......they are adding only 4 seats, but somehow that takes the pitch of the entire plane down to 32' and some 31' pitch???

What am I missing?



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 2):
OK help me out here......they are adding only 4 seats, but somehow that takes the pitch of the entire plane down to 32' and some 31' pitch???

Looks like they are adding a row, the 4 seats might be added over the emergency exit which row might be only 2x2 not 3x3


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6619 times:
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Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 2):
What am I missing?

It may be what the reporter is missing. It may be Ms. Yamanouchi has other information, but the news was given at the Frontier Analysts Summit in Denver.

I've listened to part of the conference call (about the seats), and I didn't hear - or haven't yet heard - anyone say that there would be 31" pitch.

It was said that, because of the new slim line design seats, between 12% to 16% of the seats will have 32" pitch. Now, it may also be that that on the smaller A318 this goes down to 31" pitch for a couple of the back rows, but I haven't heard that said.

I dunno. Maybe I've missed something.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5078 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting NZblue (Thread starter):
And for Frontier, "we feel like the hub has kind of reached a maturity level as far as depth and breadth of it," Happ said. Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from Acapulco service.

That comment kind of has me left with a few ???'s.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Sorry M. Christie got it right and some of the back rows will be a miserable 31". The rest 32". CFO Tate's words in his part of the presentation.

Beware of airline execs who say that less seat pitch will be not noticable. A whole different animal is quickly becoming a normal animal. A very sad day.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6362 times:
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Quoting Alphascan (Reply 6):
Sorry M. Christie got it right and some of the back rows will be a miserable 31". The rest 32". CFO Tate's words in his part of the presentation.

I'm sure you're right, A. I'll listen to the rest of it this evening.

It still doesn't quite make sense to me. Like Alexinwa - post #2 - I feel I'm missing something. I assume we're sending emails to Joe Hodas?


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6233 times:

I have to say that this sounds bad. It seems like F9 is giving me progressivly fewer reasons to choose them at opposed to the other airlines at DIA. Shrinking the pitch to squeeze in four seats is silly. Those seats will only occasionally be occupied by a paying customer but will significantly reduce the quality of the experiance for every customer every day. I see fewer and fewer reasons to take my business to F9.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6210 times:
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Quoting Mcg (Reply 8):
I see fewer and fewer reasons to take my business to F9.

Hmmm? That's odd. If you're just talking about "the other airlines at DIA", then at 32" the pitch is better than UniTED, about the same as Southwest.

Then there's the PTV's in every seat with individual email and texting coming. So - I wonder what are the "fewer" reasons are.

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 03:31:21]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

One of the other airlines in town offers economy plus seating with 35 or 36 inch pitch, the opportunity to upgrade to first class and an outstanding frequent flyer program.

Please don't misunderstand, I want F9 to succeed. They've offered a great product, have wonderful employees, run a first-class operation and provided and excellent element of competition in the local airline market. If this announcement is true it will simply have the effect of diminishing their product (and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda  Smile! ).


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6119 times:
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Quoting Mcg (Reply 10):
(and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda  ! ).

All you have to do is ask.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6091 times:

Why put the worst in the back? Jetblue does it right....put the better legroom in the back, and let those who want it wait a little longer to get off the plane, while those who could care less can sit in row 2 can get off 30 secs after hitting the gate.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
It may be Ms. Yamanouchi has other information

For being the Denver Post's sole aviation writer, I feel she does a remarkably poor job. Her articles are generally very poorly written and just leave you with more questions than answers. Some excerpts from this one:

"Seat pitch is the distance between a passenger's seat and the seat in front."

Very poorly explained. Seems if you listen to her that there will be 31" of gap between seats. In reality, it is the distance between a point on one seat and the identical point on the seat in front.

"Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from its service to Acapulco, Mexico."

Explanation?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
then at 32" the pitch is better than UniTED

Not for frequent flyers. Try convincing a UA FF who gets E+ consistently to try F9's service and avoid RJs when the legroom is actually better in E+ on the RJ.

Used to be a great benefit of Frontier, yet they are throwing it all away for a measly four seats that I don't see them regularly filling anyway. How often does a Frontier flight go out without four seats empty?



YES URLS in signature!!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6068 times:
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Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
For being the Denver Post's sole aviation writer, I feel she does a remarkably poor job.

I prefer her to Chris Welsh at the Rocky Mountain News. She has less "technical" knowledge than he, but she seems to take a more balanced view.

I miss David Kesmodel, who used to write for the RMN.

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
Explanation?

I assume that the Narco Wars in Acapulco - with headless bodies washed up on beaches and cops shot in the street - are taking their toll on the present tourism.

Maybe?

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 04:20:45]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5953 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I will continue to fly F9, I have had great luck with them. If some rows have less pitch I will use a site like SeatGuru to help me pick the right row. Lucky row 13 always seems to do me well, was on a very full flight on Friday and the middle seat was open, like it almost always is. Frontier takes care of their flyers, and will continue to get my business when it makes sense.

While booking a ticket today I noticed they are doing a 1,000 mile bonus for the next week when you book at frontierairlines.com


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5078 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5892 times:

Quoting Mcg (Reply 10):
Please don't misunderstand, I want F9 to succeed. They've offered a great product, have wonderful employees, run a first-class operation and provided and excellent element of competition in the local airline market. If this announcement is true it will simply have the effect of diminishing their product (and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda Smile! ).

The product will still be great, the employees will still be wonderful, and Frontier will continue to run a first-class operation. The only real difference is the slight recline in the seat. The other difference is the ability for Frontier to add a few extra seats to increase revenue. They seem to be compensating this difference with the opportunity to stay in touch with email and texting. This enhancement will certainly be a bonus for those of us who live with our email. Just another benefit for business travelers especially.

As for your soda experience, I find that odd. They could have been low on the type and were trying to conserve. I have always gotten a whole can, but I usually ask anyways.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5868 times:

For me pitch is a big issue..........not text or email.

My comfort, being big at over 6'2" is more important than an email. Just like my phone calls can wait, so can the text and emails.

And still only over 4 seats to disrupt the entire rest of the a/c seems a little harsh.

I love F9, I have from the start,......but lately the fares are not that good and with this, it makes them "normal"!!!



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
I love F9, I have from the start,......but lately the fares are not that good and with this, it makes them "normal"!!!

I know what you mean. I used to get stellar deals on F9 and flew with them all the time. But, lately, DL, UA, and NW are almost always much much cheaper out of BIL all the time.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5841 times:

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
Why put the worst in the back?

'Cause F9 reserves the front of the cabin for Ascent/Summit Early Returns members to claim in advance when booking...B6, with its one-tiered FF program, doesnt have to worry about elite benefits like that...



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5839 times:

Actually, jetBlue changed it. Now the front has the best pitch, and the back has worse pitch.. don't ask me why.
-A



What now?
User currently offlineGeotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

Not pleased at all with the seat pitch change. At more than 6' 1", the extra inch in pitch makes a difference on a longer flight for me. I'll reserve final judgement for when I actually get to try them out, but for me the seat pitch was a deal maker. Losing that might make it a deal breaker and push me back to United's economy plus seats.

Dave


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5684 times:
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Quoting Alphascan (Reply 6):
some of the back rows will be a miserable 31".

Doesn't the slimline seats have that clever thing that even if the seats are spaced at 31" the actual knee-room is 33"?

If so, the back row won't be so bad after all. Or will the seats be spaced at 29" and actual knee-room will be only 31"?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineJerseyGuy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2032 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5632 times:
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Frontier Airlines doesn't care about tall people  thumbsdown 


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1311 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
And still only over 4 seats to disrupt the entire rest of the a/c seems a little harsh.

Frontier plans on bringing in an extra $10 million in revenue in the first year with these 4 seats. Doesn't seem harsh to me.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 17):
I used to get stellar deals on F9 and flew with them all the time. But, lately, DL, UA, and NW are almost always much much cheaper out of BIL all the time.

This is a good thing for Frontier. That means Frontier's planes are full. The lowest fares are gone and Frontier is able to charge a premium.

Quoting Geotrash (Reply 20):
At more than 6' 1", the extra inch in pitch makes a difference on a longer flight for me. I'll reserve final judgement for when I actually get to try them out

That is fair. The seat pitch will still be better than most Coach cabins. Let's also not forget that the average passenger does not choose their flights based on seat pitch. $$$$$



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 23):
The seat pitch will still be better than most Coach cabins.

Ah... no. 31" is bog-standard coach pitch, and is noticeably worse than Southwest's standard pitch or UA's Economy Plus product, which just happen to be Frontier's two major competitors at its DEN hubsite.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
25 KingCavalier : This is only a few rows towards the back. The majority of the cabin will be 32 inches or better.
26 Hiflyer : F9 mgt is not dumb....they know they are matching standard ecy with this move....the trouble is that other carriers are matching and now beating some
27 USAFHummer : As far as UA vs. F9 is concerned, I don't think its accurate to single out just the Y+ aspect of UA when comparing them to F9...Y+ is meaningless to
28 UnknownUser : Thanks for the laugh... this is the equivalent of F9, you are justifying that the best they have to offer is 32" so it makes up for someone who is st
29 KingCavalier : That is true. You can only compare true Coach cabins (No other cabins such F, C, or Economy Plus that can cost extra) AirTran Boeing 717-200 (717) 30
30 Alphascan : I'll bet they didn't figure on losing passengers in their pro forma. I have gone out of my way to fly F9 on westbound trips for the last six years an
31 F9Widebody : That's pretty key......
32 Post contains links KingCavalier : Maybe. That's debatable. Frontier still offer much more amenities. Plus, it appears from the news lately that Southwest's strategy is not working. He
33 KingCavalier : We don't know if they did, but Frontier's mgmt is pretty sharp. The $10 million dollars in increased revenue is for the first year. They predict over
34 AlexInWa : Ok Ok, I get that it is a good business plan...............It makes F9 just like any other airline to me. This I would also agree with,......for now.
35 Geotrash : The math isn't quite that simple. Adding more seats does not mean that they will actually carry more passengers in a given year. They have to balance
36 Clickhappy : I don't understand all these posts that say you are going to switch to United since Frontier is going with a 32" pitch. If room was that important to
37 Geotrash : That's a fair question. Right now, I find Frontier's seat pitch to be comfortable enough for me to handle a 4 hour flight without my knees hurting. I
38 Mariner : So you will choose Northwest or United instead? You will ignore all the other benefits you get as an elite ? You once wrote a post about that - you s
39 Post contains images Mariner : And the answers to those questions are quite interesting, F9Animal, but I think people probably just want to talk about seats.   What it means - I t
40 Geotrash : It is a potentially significant issue, Mariner. Of course, it's just one among many factors that influence passengers' decision to choose one airline
41 Mariner : As Clickhappy said, I'm not sure why anyone is comparing Frontier's Economy with United's E Plus. That advantage to United already exists. You get be
42 A330300 : Frontier's current 33 inch pitch is certainly generous, but anyone notice how THICK the current seats are? If Frontier can pull off 31 inch pitch with
43 Juan911411 : I know what you are trying to say. but if you ever were on B6 before the seat change nothing has change in the back rows the only place that has chan
44 KingCavalier : I think I read where 31 inches is only in the last 4 rows. The current seats are really thick. So, there might not be a noticable difference in leg r
45 Mkirch72 : As someone who is 6'5, every bit of space is of utmost importance. This is a VERY slippery slope! First this, then before you know it they end up lik
46 COERJ145 : Do they have the adjustable headreasts like the old ones do?
47 Mariner : Sorry, I couldn't tell on the video - no one was sitting in the seats, they were set up in a hangar. mariner
48 ThirteenRight : I can't help but agree ... this is a tricky move! (by the way, this is my first post in my new name! used to be FA4B6)
49 A330300 : Looks like the new seats will be arriving on N812FR - green leather with black seatbelts, adjustable headrests. Should be arriving in DEN from MCO (Li
50 Post contains links Mariner : You're right - they are Spectrum: http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...&newsId=20070604006084&newsLang=en mariner
51 BrianDromey : How big are you people???? I am 6'2" and 220 pounds. I have NEVER had a problem in Y class seating, I have flown on pitches as tight as 29". Never a
52 Post contains images NZblue : Speaking of N812FR....
53 Geotrash : Sorry, I should have been clearer. With the existing seat pitch on Frontier (I fly them almost every week), I have just enough room to put my legs un
54 AirportGuy1971 : It makes absolutely NO difference. Some people are willing to condem this without even thinking about giving the airline the benefit of the doubt. Fr
55 MSYtristar : To me, the difference in seating is really not all that noticeable unless you're in something like E+ or jetBlue's new cabin. 30, 31, 32....basically
56 Post contains images Geotrash : No whining from me. I sure hope it doesn't sound that way to anyone. Let me try asking a question instead. If you're game, I'll need to kindly beg yo
57 Post contains links Mariner : Then Frontier must be getting its passengers from somewhere else. http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_6084391 "Frontier Airlines said its passenger
58 Alphascan : I would bet that has a lot to do with the large number of leisure travelers flying F9 to Mexico. Leisure travelers bring along the young'uns. In the
59 Post contains images Geotrash : Remember that the marketing department is the group that communicates with the press. Are they communicating well researched facts, or complementing
60 MSYtristar : No worries, I wasn't talking about you specifically, just about people on this board in general who complain about leg room, lack of PTV's, no food i
61 Mariner : It seems to me that, as one of those leading the charge in this, you have already made up your mind. Moreover, I am astonished that you can say I am
62 Mcg : It boils down to this: If you live in Denver, when you fly you have to choose between F9 and UA. This choice in usually based on price, schedule, freq
63 USAFHummer : Um, excuse me? I dont think the choice is quite that narrow...I live in the DEN area and Ive flown pretty much every domestic carrier that serves DEN
64 Geotrash : I don't understand. Leading the charge in what? We shall see. I've already said several times that 33" is right at the threshold of comfort and produ
65 Mariner : And I'm not sure what else I can say, other than what I have already said: However, for the record, Frontier spent a great deal of time last week str
66 Mir : I hear people say this, but yet I don't have elite status on UA and still manage to end up in Y+ on occasion, free of charge, without ever asking for
67 F9Animal : The cloth seats were nice, but I am glad to see they are going with the leather. To be honest, they were so so hard to clean, and when someone had an
68 USAFHummer : Havent yet had that happen to me at all in my UA travels recently, though I think the key words in your statement are "on occasion"...not something t
69 Mcg : Actually, it all makes sense. The premium frequent flier isn't F9's primary market, the leisure traveller (particularly to Mexico) and infrequent busi
70 Post contains links Mariner : I'd love to see some research on the second part of that statement. According to a survey conducted last July, the average annual income for Frontier
71 MSYtristar : I still don't understand the uproar with adding four seats. a) Most of the plane will still have 32" pitch...more than a lot of airlines. Take a look
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