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Discrimination Against Economy Pax?  
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

I was chatting with a friend, and while we were on the subject of travelling he said that he hated travelling economy because he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything. Has anyone felt this way? When I travel economy I haven't really had this feeling, but I wanted to see your views.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7664 times:

Sounds like a self-esteem problem to me. I know people who have tons of money, and they fly economy. I also know people who don't have a pot to pee in, up to their eyeballs in debt, but they have FF mileage, so they go F or J. In this day and age, travelling F, J or Y or owning a Mercedes or a 20-year-old jalopy is meaningless. These things can no longer be used as a measure of wealth. I travel economy most of the time, because I can't afford to pay the big bucks for F or J. I also don't own an automobile. I also don't have any debts, but that doesn't mean that I am going to max out my credit cards or cash in bonds for the prestige of travelling in the front just so people just to put on a show. I also don't fly enough any more to accrue a lot of mileage to upgrade anyway, when the time comes that I do have a lot of mileage I will save it for an overseas trip, pay the Y fare and upgrade. That is just a personal preference for comfort on a long flight. I don't fly for business, so all of my trips are pleasure trips, and for domestic flights I am quite happy to be in economy. I am just happy to go. Many others would use the miles for a free ticket. I was always brought up to do what felt comfortable for me, and thank God I don't have the problem that most North Americans have: they can't do anything without wondering either what others will think, or what kind of a impression it will have on them. I really don't give a damn whether others think I am rich or not, which indeed I am not, but I just have different priorities than others, and refuse to waste time and money to impress others.
If your friend is that troubled by flying economy and people thinking he is cheap, he really needs some help.
All of the people who travel Southwest in the US are quite happy to be in economy, and all the people in Canada who fly Westjet seem to be quite happy also. Tell your friend to make it easy on himself and fly Southwest, then he will be on equal "status" with everyone else.
Cheers,
AY104



The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Quoting AY104 (Reply 1):
If your friend is that troubled by flying economy and people thinking he is cheap, he really needs some help.

Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.


User currently offlineQuetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7574 times:

Quoting AY104 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a self-esteem problem to me.

Good work AY,

One of the more measured and well adjusted replies I've seen on A.net.

I fly every day for a living & regularly see 'famous' people. Do I treat them any better than the other pax? I might be more likely to know their name, so perhaps there is a mild form of latent discrimination??
Elite, your friend might be interested to know some of the people that travel in economy every day are high-profile leaders of businesses, so-called celebrities and so-on.
And many/most of the people up front are probably riding on someone elses money!
Read between the lines and he'll see how the real world works.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.

Yep.



No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7558 times:

Interestingly, an airline commissioned an indepth study to find out the attitudes and expectations of its customers. The verbatim quote from the report was that 'Business Class travellers have a greater desire for recognition than First Class flyers, and imagine themselves to fly a lot more and contribute a greater percentage of the airline's revenue than they actually do'.

One fact I offer without comment - the airline I work for's 747s are configured with 46 Business seats, and 31 Premium Economy seats. Almost every flight, the Premium Economy passengers consume far more port and dessert wines than the Business Class passengers.



-
User currently offlineQuetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 4):
'Business Class travellers have a greater desire for recognition than First Class flyers, and imagine themselves to fly a lot more and contribute a greater percentage of the airline's revenue than they actually do'.

So true. And to take it down a notch, are less likely to treat you like a human being.
To look at it another way, it's new money v old money. The 'new money' people have not yet adjusted as to how to 'behave'.



No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
User currently onlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7470 times:

Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
he said that he hated travelling economy because he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything.

 rotfl 
Yes, I am one of the "cheap people". Big grin
I realize that the front of the plane arrives at it's destination only nanoseconds before the rear of the plane does, and as I fit reasonably comfortably into a Y-class seat, I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

I don't want everything; In fact, my wants are very few.
I want a window seat.
I want more than one cup of black coffee.
When those two wants are met, I'm the happiest Y-class pax you ever saw.  cloudnine 



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineFXMD11 From Thailand, joined Aug 2004, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

This is how I see it, regardless if I can effort it or not. I fly BKK-LAX about 8 x per year, always in either TG's Premium Eco or in Standard Eco. The Saving between Biz and Eco is around 3000 US$ +/- 500 US$ per flight. The flight is 20hrs. So where in the world can I make 150 US$ an hour, sleeping, playing PSP or reading all my papers and desired books?For normal guys like myself this is a lot of money.But wait, if the saving is 3000 US$ per flight, this would mean around 24000 US$ a year or close to 100K US$ in 5 years. I rather put that in to my stock trading. I bought Apple at 11.02 US$ years back.The share was at 124 US$ today. Even, if this would make a wealthy man on paper, where else can I make so easy money? Sure the seats are nice and the service is good, but again the flight lasts not even a day and then all is over.

PS > I do not really want to complain as TG has been really generous over the past years and out of 6 flights I have 2 where I get upgraded and 2 more with a row for myself.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7246 times:
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Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything.

This is true, though... Millions of people spend 14 hours on the internet looking for the cheapest fares and buy those even if the departure times are terrible and the airport is 2 hours away by bus. And then they throw a tantrum when they don't get free food on the plane... "But I wanna have my cake AND eat it, is that so hard to understand??"

I am a real cheapskate myself, and buy the cheapest fares I can find, if I think the fares are too high I take the train or simply stay at home.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7034 times:

DISCRIMINATION?? What a crock. The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for. The service can be equally friendly, but obviously less personalized.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

Personally, I see little point in paying out for Business/First for short haul.

It might by different on long haul, but having flown outside of Europe only twice. It is hard to judge.

I flew to HBE with BMED, and AA to JFK all Economy and had no problems.

I flew from CAI with MS, which was very nice but an extra £190 was a lot of money.

Sadly whenever I fly, I have to pay and really do not want to pay the extra. If I was traveling for work and someone else was paying ....


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6835 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.

I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 3):
Elite, your friend might be interested to know some of the people that travel in economy every day are high-profile leaders of businesses, so-called celebrities and so-on.

Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I fit reasonably comfortably into a Y-class seat, I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

I agree with you. The flight would have to be mighty long and arduous to justify the expenditure for the bigger seat for me.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
"But I wanna have my cake AND eat it, is that so hard to understand??"

Bingo!

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 9):
DISCRIMINATION?? What a crock. The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for. The service can be equally friendly, but obviously less personalized.

I agree; the title of this thread is totally misleading. The only discrimination that occurs is when your friend looks at and chooses between the fare and product offerings, as in example 3 below.

dis·crim·i·na·tion
–noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.


User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6831 times:

On the basis of some recent experiences, I now try to fly First or Business class if I have the opportunity, i.e., if I have the frequent flyer miles to upgrade or if someone else offers to pay part of the fare. Example #1: Last year my wife and I flew Delta from San Jose del Cabo, Mexico (SJD) to Salt Lake City (SLC) (continuing on to Portland PDX). The wait to check-in for Economy at SJD was more than an hour. One woman who was flying Economy on the non-stop to JFK informed us that she had arrived at the airport many hours before her flight, but after waiting more than an hour to check in she was informed that the flight was full and she was being bumped on to our SLC flight where she would have to make a connection for an overnight flight to JFK. Meanwhile, my wife and I were flying First (thanks to her parents who helped pay for part of our ticket) and we checked in in under ten minutes. After checking in I said to my wife: "Worth every penny." Exampe #2: The previous year we flew from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (PVR) to Los Angeles (LAX) (continuing to Portland PDX) on Alaska in Economy. The entire length of the flight some moron hovered over our row berating his wife who was in the aisle seat. I kept thinking, "no matter how much extra it would have cost to fly First, it would have been worth it to not have this idiot hovering over us chastising his wife." So I plead guilty to being one of those people who will try to get out of Economy when the opportunity arises.

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6743 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Members of the US house of representatives have a lot of mandated expenses - such as keeping an office in their district and in DC. They have to run for office every 2 years. There are strict limits as to how much lobbyists, campaign funds, etc. can contribute to these expenses. The vast majority of first time congressman are going to live a much poorer lifestyle, in both salary and working conditions, than they could have had otherwise. Many really can't afford to fly first class.

Another reason congressman often fly coach is that they are more often then not people lovers. They can stand the close quarters in coach better then most people.

AS FOR "DISCRIMINATION"

I think most people know the difference between first class and coach and understand. What pisses people off about airlines is the frequent flier caste system. Imagine if where you were seated or how long it took to serve you, or even the dish you were served, depended only on how many times you had been to that restaurant. It doesn't matter how much you paid or how reasonable or unreasonable you are. All that matters is how often you've been there. Its not hard to imagine what would happen to such a restaurant. It would alienate most potential customers. The few customers such a restaurant did attract would be mostly those who aim to get the benefits of being there by choosing the place more often. These captive customers and the restaurant employees would be stuck with each other and would get more and more resentful of each other. It would soon be unprofitable to serve these captive customers since it would get more and more expensive to buy their loyalty - especially when they are paying the same as everyone else.

Imagine a world in which every restaurant did this, except for a select few. These few radical eateries would offer the same good service to everybody. They would reward "frequent" diners with free meal coupons every once in a while, but they would not offer special seating or shorter wait times, etc. In time, such a restaurant would not only attract more customers but also it would have a disproportionate share of "nice" customers. These kind of customers don't want to be at the top of a caste system. They don't want special treatment. They don't make unreasonable demands. They just want a clean table, good food, friendly service, and fair treatment. They don't drive up your cost structure or destroy employee morale. Such a restaurant would not have a product that would please everyone, but they would get the best and most profitable customers.

I have just described the difference between Legacy carrier service and that of Southwest (and SOME other LCC's).
Southwest rewards loyalty, but DISCREETLY and in ways that DO NOT HURT OTHER CUSTOMERS Do I care if Southwest gives someone a rapid rewards ticket - heck no I don't. Do I care if I am made to wait longer so Triple Golden Elite...yadda yadda yadda frequent fliers can get faster service? You bet I do. If you want to reward people for loyalty, do so at your own expense and not at the expense of other customers. Otherwise, the only people you are going to keep as customers are those that want to be treated as kings while bleeding you dry. They will come back time and time again - but only to suck more blood.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6723 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre' and that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6716 times:
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Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I want a window seat.
I want more than one cup of black coffee.
When those two wants are met, I'm the happiest Y-class pax you ever saw.

Those are the same things I want.

I am not a fat ass so I fit just fine in a Y seat.

Hardly anyone pays the same price either. For example last October I was going to visit friend in STL, from DTW. I bought my ticket a month early and it was $88. My girlfriend was not planning to go because she was supposed to be out of town for work Her plans changed so she bought a ticket a week before we went and it was $220. We sat next to each other, but paid a lot different price. The FAs didn't treat her any better because she paid more.

I have bought full fare Y on NW and I have bought K for Cheap. The FAs didn't treat me any different.

I have bought domestic F tickets for less then full fare Y, when I buy months in advance.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 9):
The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for

I have bought F and I have been upgraded to F I was treated the same each time.

Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

Couldn't agree more most of the time.

Most of the plane is coach and I would bet you find people from all types of income brackets in those seats. I have a friend who has millions and never would think of paying for F, he also doesn't have cable TV. He has three airplanes and lots of neat cars, but he spends his money on what he thinks is important.

My girlfriend flies F all the time, always on her employer's dime, and she only makes $40,000 a year.

You never really know how much money the person sitting next to you has.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.

It's more like 5" and 3", but yeah, it is. That little bit make a difference.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre'

You must fly US


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
It's more like 5" and 3", but yeah, it is. That little bit make a difference.

or DL MD80's or NW DC-9's or E170 UA or DL Domestic 763, or DL757 or the list goes on and on of planes with questionable "Legroom" in F.

Also, even if you do have better legroom, F pax tend to be fat middle age men 85% of the time that spill into your seat even if it is 18.5 to 21 inches wide, oh, and the fat a$$ in front of you also needs to recline fully immeadeatley after take-off until the FA tells him for the 3rd time to bring it up for landing.

Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
You must fly US

at least they have "food" on F flights unlike some DL flights of the same length (DL TUS-ATL comes to mind...no food)

Other than CO and US PS and some some transcon's domestic F blows.

I was on a UA 777 from ORD to DEN a few months ago (3 class) and was shocked to get basically an international J breakfast on that flight. UA has been picking up the ball recently on certain city pairs.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 13):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Members of the US house of representatives have a lot of mandated expenses - such as keeping an office in their district and in DC. They have to run for office every 2 years. There are strict limits as to how much lobbyists, campaign funds, etc. can contribute to these expenses. The vast majority of first time congressman are going to live a much poorer lifestyle, in both salary and working conditions, than they could have had otherwise. Many really can't afford to fly first class.

Another reason congressman often fly coach is that they are more often then not people lovers. They can stand the close quarters in coach better then most people.

I'm not sure I'm feeling a lot of pity for the financial conditions of the members of the US Congress, and I definitely don't buy the "people lovers" argument given some of the behavior I have seen on board from several of them (one in particular was more than troublesome.) I actually think most of them do make more than they could in the outside world, though not exclusively from direct compensation. At any rate I don't quite understand your point, all I was saying was that I have carried Congressmen in coach and they did not feel discriminated against in any way (even though they universally have tried and failed to use their FF miles to upgrade to first; first fills up way earlier than most of them book for DCA flights.)

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre' and that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.

What's your problem? I said that first was better than economy on a given flight. If the pitch isn't to your liking find a better travel alternative. Most people appreciate the width of the seat and the fact that there is pre-flight service of any sort. People want low fares; the airlines are giving them what they want. If there is no difference as you say, why are Frequent Flyers jockeying with all their might to get that last upgrade into first on even the shortest segments? If you think that flying in first is no better than a middle seat overlooking the engine in an MD-80, next time you have a first class seat, why don't you go find the guy in 37B and offer to trade seats with him?


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6662 times:
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Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre'

You must fly US

On NW F you get a glass. They serve beer and pop in one type of glass and wine in another. You also got a glass in F on Mesaba's ARJs



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18):
What's your problem? I said that first was better than economy on a given flight. If the pitch isn't to your liking find a better travel alternative. Most people appreciate the width of the seat and the fact that there is pre-flight service of any sort. People want low fares; the airlines are giving them what they want. If there is no difference as you say, why are Frequent Flyers jockeying with all their might to get that last upgrade into first on even the shortest segments? If you think that flying in first is no better than a middle seat overlooking the engine in an MD-80, next time you have a first class seat, why don't you go find the guy in 37B and offer to trade seats with him?

I have no problem...I am just giving some facts to people that think they might be missing something by not being in first. The only airlines worth flying in F are CO , HA and AS and UA .

typically you are not missing anything special in F, just pointing it out.

International F /J is another story.

Maybe FF shouldn't be jockying for a F upgrade...unless they just want free booze.

Actually I did have a chance to upgrade from E Plus to F on a LAX HNL UA flight, but me and the other upgrade decided to let 2 enlisted army guys have it. (that was about 1 year ago). The E-plus was fine.

[Edited 2007-06-08 18:36:23]

User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

I fly economy most of the time (unless I have an upgrade coming), and I don't feel discriminated against. You get what you pay for.

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Nor do I consider those in first class to be snobbish or "uppity". They may have the money, or they may have an upgrade. What do I care?

There's no discrimination. Just a difference in accommodations.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6513 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):
Actually I did have a chance to upgrade from E Plus to F on a LAX HNL UA flight, but me and the other upgrade decided to let 2 enlisted army guys have it.

Thank you VERY much for doing that. I have done that as well, and always appreciate it when others do it.  veryhappy 

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):
I am just giving some facts to people that think they might be missing something by not being in first. The only airlines worth flying in F are CO , HA and AS and UA .

I see your point, an I apologize if I misunderstood from your earlier post. FF DO line up for first like crazy even on 100 mile legs. The best thing about first is the width and pitch of the seat; I don't care about the extra service, though I do like being offered a drink, especially in the summer.

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):
I fly economy most of the time (unless I have an upgrade coming), and I don't feel discriminated against. You get what you pay for.

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Nor do I consider those in first class to be snobbish or "uppity". They may have the money, or they may have an upgrade. What do I care?

There's no discrimination. Just a difference in accommodations.

I thank you for this post. This is the post I wish I'd written on the subject!


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6453 times:

The only time I've felt "discriminated" against with regard to my choice in seating was when I was flying from SNA to DTW last year on NW and my departure was delayed. We pushed back but when they fired up the engines, one of them wouldn't start. Nothing was said on the overhead. Our only indication that something was wrong was when we were being pulled back to the gate. After 15 minutes of sitting, an announcement was made that one of the plane's engines wouldn't start and we may have to deplane. At some point after that another announcement was made advising us to exit the a/c and that it was "unknown how long the delay would be". Thing is, as I was walking down the jetway, there was a NW employee walking behind me who had a portable radio on and I was able to overhear some radio traffic. Even before we had exited the a/c, I overheard plans being made to bus the first class pax to LAX (so obviously they knew at that point our delay would be significantly long enough to start making arrangements to bus the first class pax to LAX). Yet while waiting in the gate area, other than the ticket agent making an announcement that all first class passengers needed to report to the desk, us lowly coach passengers were kept in the dark about the length of the delay. The flight was supposed to depart at 0700. Actual departure time was 1545.

User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6423 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Sometimes the price difference for paid F is pretty small, especially for last minute tickets. The only time I paid for F (full F, not Y-up) was on a 3.5 hour (turned into 5.5 hour) flight; it cost me $50 more than Y (on that aircraft or on WN).

At that point it becomes worth it, even for a poor bum like me.


25 Analog : If I'm in F (especially if I've paid for it), I'm going to expect discrimination. I'll expect the airline to discriminate in the way it treats me dur
26 Aviationnut12 : I just look forward to flying and treat it like a privilege. I don't really pay any attention or care what other people think about "us folk in the ba
27 Cvg2lga : I fly at least once a week. For me its a real privilege. But it hasn't always been this way. Since I am able to, I pick usually flights that are trans
28 SQ_EK_freak : Yeah, same thing happened to me on AA from HNL to LAX. Flight was due to depart at 1500ish, we push back from the gate and as we taxi for take off th
29 FlyDreamliner : Should I feel ashamed to go out in public if I'm not dressed in Hugo Boss, wearing Harry Winston cuff links, and an Omega watch? People will think I'm
30 Soon7x7 : Sitting in ANY seat for three to eight hours is uncomfortable. The only thing worse than wining, screaming kids is wining, screaming abnoxious wanabee
31 Post contains images Ikramerica : I save my miles to be able to fly J or F on international flights so I can relax, get some real sleep, have lounge access (including showers) get my b
32 PGNCS : EXTREMELY valid point! Well in honesty though, the MD-80 doesn't fly many transcons, and the 3 x 2 is better in coach. Your point about the value of
33 Ikramerica : Very true, but the statement is about F not being much better than Y, and in the MD80, the width of F is pretty poor. Since I live in LA, and also li
34 Aa757first : First Class passengers are treated better because they either paid more or are upgrading with miles. Just like a customer staying in a presidential su
35 PGNCS : I see your point that you don't like the width of the MD-80 FC compared to a Boeing or A-320, and I understand. What I am saying is that IF you are f
36 Itsnotfinals : 757 especially on DL has terrible issues when someone puts the seat all the way back. Many times I've been on a DL 757 in F and had horrendous "perso
37 AirSpare : That is not a "North American" trait, it's human nature. U=I actually see it less in N.A. then in Africa or Latin America. Great post! Having flown F
38 Ikramerica : DL does seem to cram the seats into F, but it's not that bad. It's not international J, but it's still way more leg room. AA F on the 757 has the sam
39 Post contains images WhiteBirdFlyer : A splendid measure of civilization if there remains any. Cordially, WFB
40 Hamster : I think you friend needs a session or two on his shrink's couch. I have never flown anything but Y. To me the only people who should be flying F or J
41 Ikramerica : I'd add to that list. c. People on a once in a lifetime trip, like a 50 year anniversary or honeymoon or something where they want to have a special
42 Post contains links TSS : The Carol Burnett take on the subject: http://img.youtube.com/vi/IpGRA5mjOA8/2.jpg
43 Post contains images FreequentFlier : Umm...ok. Your description works if you're flying from DAL to LBB but try NOT "discriminating" in favor of your best frequent flyer base passengers a
44 Luvfa : WN flies transconsi.e., PHL-LAX, BWI-OAK, BWI-SAN etc. and our policy is no differernt than for DAL-LBB. When and if we go international, nothing wil
45 Cloudy : I eat 3-4 meals a week in sit down restaurants. Most restaurant meals eaten in the US are fast food, and if a fast food place introduced special line
46 Post contains images Lrgt : What?? I love CO, but their transcon F class is total garbage... an overnight flight with seats that barely recline, lousy food, and no leg rest in f
47 Jwenting : such people indeed exist, and a lot of them are quite easy to recognise. They're the ones calling flight attendants every few minutes and are constan
48 Itsnotfinals : CO in general does have better F in terms of food and the staff are nice. I agree though, that sitting on a 737-700 for a 4 hour flight does not comp
49 Ikramerica : Buddy, you are just wrong. The analogy was doesn't work. They do hold tables for the best and VIP customers, or even bump reservations to do it. They
50 Jwenting : never flown I guess? I've never been "inconvenienced" because someone with a frequent flyer card was allowed to board before me, or got first choice
51 BFS : Anyone who's seen Pam Ann will know her take on it, especially Business class pax who look down their noses and economy pax traipsing through their ca
52 A340600 : I think this is more about insecurity than anything else. Many people will agree with you but there are reasons to pay for a premium class. So far th
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