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9 A320s + 3 787s For Oceanair  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

This week Flight Int'l revealed that Oceanair will take some A320s and 787s out of the recent Avianca order.

Despite this is linked to the Avianca order and a thread has been opened about this story , i open this new one for clearer understanding.

Will the 320s replace Fokker 100s at Oceanair ?
Is it the beginning of another big player on the Brasilian market ?
Till where , does Oceanair want to go ?
In another way , has Oceanair already begunn flights with the first 767 they have received recently , and to where ?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3679 times:
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Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
In another way , has Oceanair already begunn flights with the first 767 they have received recently , and to where ?

Not yet, the plane is on final legal procedures in GIG and probably will be ready to fly some domestic routes during the next 2 weeks. MEX will be their first international flight and should begin by the end of this year.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Is it the beginning of another big player on the Brasilian market ?

Could be, but they just announce a code-share with BRA, a very bad rated company in Brazil. They also really need other planes as F100 is not anymore a good one for Brazilian market.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Will the 320s replace Fokker 100s at Oceanair ?

Yes, Mr. Eframovich (Ocean Air owner) said that recently. But they will need more than 9 A320 as their fleet nowadays IIRC is closer to 15 F100.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
This week Flight Int'l revealed that Oceanair will take some A320s and 787s out of the recent Avianca order

I wonder how are they gonna call it this time? A200?? After the MK-28, I sure they can come up with something interesting!!!!


User currently offlineCybergus From Venezuela, joined Mar 2006, 508 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

Good news for OceanAir, they are building an awesome airline and they are doing it step by step. Nice Job!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
MEX will be their first international flight and should begin by the end of this year.

What other international routes are in their mind? do you have any info? i'll love to see them in CCS Big grin.

Saludos

Tavo



LAN Excellence in Flight
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3344 times:
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Quoting Cybergus (Reply 3):
What other international routes are in their mind? do you have any info? i'll love to see them in CCS

LAD, LOS, LIM and BOG. They use to say about LAX but nothing has been said since last April.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

The way I see it, OceanAir destiny is extremely important for Avianca (and visceversa). Avianca needs an important "connector" in the biggest market of South America and without it, Avianca will be behind the competition. On the other hand, OceanAir benefits of Avianca's hub and routes.

So I can only wish the best for OceanAir. Will they ever be a single airline? What about VIP?



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2832 times:
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Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
The way I see it, OceanAir destiny is extremely important for Avianca (and visceversa). Avianca needs an important "connector" in the biggest market of South America and without it, Avianca will be behind the competition. On the other hand, OceanAir benefits of Avianca's hub and routes.

Agree Ricariza, but let's see how they will perform with the decision not to establish a hub in São Paulo. With the code-share BRA and Ocean Air they decided to focus on GIG, CWB, BSB, SSA and CGB. A request from themselves to run a shuttle service SDU-GRU has been denied by ANAC (as well as a MAO-BSB-GRU flight with the 763) and probably they will try to run GIG-GRU/CGH in the beginning.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSAOAP From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

While OceanAir has potential, I just don't see them moving forward in the near future... I could be wrong here, but their strategy seems (if there even is one) quite odd. During the busiest holidays you nearly don't see their acfts in the air - they're all stashed inside Varig's hangar in CGH or simply sitting in the sun on some airport in Brazil. With sister company Avianca they could even build a distribution hub ex GRU but nothing seems to be happening on that front either.

OceanAir siding with BRA to start code-share flights was an even stranger move... It is of course interesting to find a partner within Brazil to be able to hold off (at least a bit) the tough competition from Gol/Varig and TAM, but BRA has a lousy reputation and I'm sure that this agreement only scared away a few more passengers.

Time will tell whether OceanAir will make it. While all the right pieces are in place, I just don't see it happening.

Cheers!

Marcelo



"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2562 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Quoting SAOAP (Reply 7):
With sister company Avianca they could even build a distribution hub ex GRU but nothing seems to be happening on that front either.

Marcelo,
I share with you the concern that OceanAir is not going anywhere fast. I dispair at the thought of a ready-to-fly- 767 stuck in GIG for a few months now, waiting to start risky, odd routes, when AV could be using it instead to boost its tried and tested hub.

Bureaucracy has not helped matters, and at that, ANAC seems to excel. The non- approval of even domestic routes and their time taken to register the fleet.

More flight rights between GRU and BOG would be needed for OceanAir and AV to make some sort synergy work by linking their hubs, and even share metal on such flights as LAX. But there seems to be no prospect of this given the legal hurdles.

I

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
but they just announce a code-share with BRA, a very bad rated company in Brazil. They also really need other planes as F100 is not anymore a good one for Brazilian market.

I understand that OceanAir's onboard service is well rated, and that BRA will adopt it. Furthermore, OceanAir has plenty of empty seats on its planes, and BRA reckon that they are good at selling them. The new arrangement will ensure that there are 3 stand-by airplanes and so optimise reliability.
I am hopeful, that in a matter of months, the reputation of this alliance will start to show results.
Their combined strategy is one of focusing on smaller cities, so I don't see why the F100 would not be good for the Brasilian market. I mean, there is not just *one* Brasilian market, but sub-markets that make up the whole picture.

The A320s will come in to complement the F100s where needed, and no replacement can be conceived for the latter, until the operation is a profitable one that can pay for the heavy investment. The F100s have a few years before they pay for themselves.

I am optimistic that a significant player will come out of the BRA/OceanAir alliance. There is always the risk that the big fish will eat them before they get there, though.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1696 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 8):
I am optimistic that a significant player will come out of the BRA/OceanAir alliance. There is always the risk that the big fish will eat them before they get there, though

I would like to be as optimistic as you, but you may be right (as well as may be wrong):

Cons
- 3 aircrafts in stand-by are so much for a combined fleet of less than 30 planes (seems to be 10%)
- Their international routes seems to be not healthy served by a domestic network. For example there is no GRU-CWB, only one GRU-IGU-CWB.
- BRA: they have a very bad reputation
- Competition: Prices are incredible low nowadays in Brazil, never were so cheap to fly domestic even closer to july. It means that profitability, if depending on a larger base of flights, will be hard to be obtained.
- So Extensive Network could be a problem if they are not able to obtain better yields on routes like Alta Floresta-Cuiaba route. So much staff based on airports to handle just one landing/departure per day.
- Lack of a good aircraft for some premium busy routes.

Pros
- Market need a 3rd competitor to face JJ and G3/RG dominance.
- Ocean Air proved they keep a very good service
- The F100 is good for secondary market and their connections with Primary markets.
- Mixed focus on premium and leisure traffics.
- AV support and partnership
- Strong financial support

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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