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Any News On The YYZ LAX SYD With AC  
User currently offlineYYZACGUY From Canada, joined May 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6106 times:

Was just wondering if there is any recent news on this route or is ir canceled the B777 Was rumoured to do YYZ LAX SYD.


ACYYZT1 thats me
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

Quoting YYZACGUY (Thread starter):
Was just wondering if there is any recent news on this route or is ir canceled the B777 Was rumoured to do YYZ LAX SYD.

Last I heard was the OZ's are giving some hard time with the billateral... that needs to be mended to make this possible... can someone fill me in if I am missing something.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6076 times:
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I think that due to problems with the bilateral they have just decided in the meantime to go ahead with YVR-SYD non stop instead using the 777


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

It seems that the Canada-Australia bilateral allows Air Canada fly through HNL, SFO, or "another city to be negotiated", or something to that effect. With the new USA-Canada bilateral, AC would be allowed to fly from a Canadian city to a US city, and then on to another country, with full traffic rights on all sectors. There would need to be, of course, an existing air agreement between Canada and that other country. AC wanted to use LAX as a hub for this flight, getting not only LAX-SYD traffic, but also connections from across Canada and the US. However, Australia is dragging their heels on discussions over that "city to be negotiated" (obviously LAX). AC decided not to wait any longer, and will use their 777s to fly YVR-SYD non-stop. It is uncertain if the YYZ-LAX-SYD route will ever start.

User currently offlineYYZACGUY From Canada, joined May 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

So if AC can do The YYZ LAX SYD does that mean QANTAS can do SYD LAX YYZ? I guess any one can do it??? Correct me if i am wrong


ACYYZT1 thats me
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5935 times:

Quoting YYZACGUY (Reply 4):
So if AC can do The YYZ LAX SYD does that mean QANTAS can do SYD LAX YYZ? I guess any one can do it??? Correct me if i am wrong

Well, right now AC can't do YYZ-LAX-SYD, so the question is moot, but if the parties reached an agreement to allow it, it would probably allow Qantas to set another US point for fifth freedoms to Canada, and that could be LAX. It could also be another city - like DFW - if QF preferred such an arrangement with a OneWorld partner considering the 787s are coming soon.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

My guess is that oz won't over let them have LAX. LAX is their big cash market. UA dominates SFO as a gateway, QF has LAX. oz blocked SQ from running that route, I'd imagine they'll block AC as well. Our best hopes for a 3rd carrier on SYD-LAX is Delta starting it once they get some more 777s.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

Last I heard, it´s dead in the water. Sydney services will operate ex YVR. However, never say never.

Quoting YYZACGUY (Reply 4):
So if AC can do The YYZ LAX SYD does that mean QANTAS can do SYD LAX YYZ? I guess any one can do it??? Correct me if i am wrong

With parked 747´s sitting at LAX all day, they could easily do a tag-end service to YYZ.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

QF has a maintenance base at LAX, so those 744's aren't just parked- if it was worth extending the flight (JFK operates primarily for cargo purposes) then trust me, QF would do it.

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 7):
Last I heard, it´s dead in the water. Sydney services will operate ex YVR. However, never say never.

It's not "dead in the water", however it won't happen until 2009, when DJ will be established on the LAX run and JQ to whereever in N. America. After that Canada will get want they want, probabley a "blue skys" agreement, after all Oz has no basic problem with open skys with Canada, unlike the it has with the US & EU.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 9):

It's not "dead in the water", however it won't happen until 2009, when DJ will be established on the LAX run and JQ to whereever in N. America. After that Canada will get want they want, probably a "blue skys" agreement, after all Oz has no basic problem with open skys with Canada, unlike the it has with the US & EU.

Gemuser

"Wherever in North America for JQ" certainly won't include Canada. There will be no agreement with Australia allowing JQ into Canada before their other bilateral issues are settled. Concurrent with settling other issues, maybe. And I wouldn't bet on 2009. Probably later. I'm told that if there is no settlement this fall when more talks are scheduled, it won't happen until 2010 or 2011."


User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 7):
With parked 747´s sitting at LAX all day, they could easily do a tag-end service to YYZ.

As mentioned above they get maintenance done there on the 5 parked there and 1 goes to JFK, and other one 4X a week goes as the daylight flight back to SYD. JFK is probably the only one worth going due to Business demand and cargo. YYZ might not be worth the extra costs for QF.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5414 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 10):
"Wherever in North America for JQ" certainly won't include Canada. There will be no agreement with Australia allowing JQ into Canada before their other bilateral issues are settled.

Of course not, as far as anything requiring a change/negotiation to the bilateral, but what about JQ, B787 BNE-SFO-YYZ? I belive that would be within the scope of the current bilateral.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 10):
And I wouldn't bet on 2009. Probably later."

Likely so, 2009 was at a minimum, if both sides got their act together and got everything settled.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

NZ has recently announced that because of such good bookings it is going to make its new YVR-AKL service year-round rather than just seasonal. 3x weekly. YVR-AKL-SYD on NZ would almost certainly be faster and more pleasant than YVR-LAX-SYD.
Also from AKL NZ flies to MEL, ADL, BNE, PER , CNS and SYD giving many options as well as earning *A points. Not sure yet whether AC will codeshare on NZs new service.

[Edited 2007-06-11 11:44:43]


54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
YVR-AKL-SYD on NZ would almost certainly be faster and more pleasant than YVR-LAX-SYD.

Certainly, but AC proposed service was YYZ-LAX-SYD, not YVR. Actually it was proposed to use LAX as a hub to funnel pax from various Canadian cities. YVR-HNL-LAX was to continue to operate. Now of course, AC has introduced YVR-SYD non stop. What they will do now when/if they get LAX-SYD permission is not yet known. My guess is that they will implement the LAX hub idea, what happens to SYD-YVR non stop I think rather depends on how much traffic AC gets from the mid west and east via LAX and whether that leaves YVR-SYD viable.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 14):
Certainly, but AC proposed service was YYZ-LAX-SYD, not YVR.

Oh oops my mistake all those YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYs if you don't read carefully easy to miss it!
Well I have since taken the liberty to look both routes up and was quite surprised at how little difference there was between the two!
Now YYZ-LAX-SYD would involve clearing customs in YYZ, and in LAX and SYD as well as having to pick up and transfer your bags in LAX.
YYZ-YVR-AKL-SYD would involve clearing customs at YVR and SYD only and bags could be transferred all the way thru without you having to do anything.

The distance is only an extra 704nm, but considering the time needed to clear customs in LAX and to transfer bags as well as the likely slower flight time YYZ-LAX (more congested airspace particularly coming into LAX as well as long taxi times and longer pushback times in LAX than YVR and the non-existant airport and airspace congestion in AKL), it may very well end up that they take the same amount of time. Interesting to note at least  Wink



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5236 times:
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Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
Not sure yet whether AC will codeshare on NZs new service.

according to NZs press release at the time of the initial announcement they will



http://www.airnz.co.nz/aboutus/media...edia_release_non_sto_vancouver.htm

Star Alliance partner Air Canada will also be code sharing on the service, which will depart Auckland on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2179 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 8):
QF has a maintenance base at LAX, so those 744's aren't just parked- if it was worth extending the flight (JFK operates primarily for cargo purposes) then trust me, QF would do it.

I've heard one of the reasons AA flies LAX-YYZ is for QF connections. If this is true, it would make a lot of sense; it's a lot less expensive to operate an AA 738 than a QF 744 LAX-YYZ.....



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 15):
Now YYZ-LAX-SYD would involve clearing customs in YYZ, and in LAX and SYD as well as having to pick up and transfer your bags in LAX.

Why would you have to pick up bags and clear customs in LAX on a YYZ-LAX-SYD routing? After pre-clearing US customs at YYZ, YYZ-LAX is essentialy a US domestic flight.

On the return, again, why would SYD-YYZ pax need to clear customs at LAX? For a through flight, with the SYD-YYZ pax not deplaning at LAX, wouldn't all SYD-YYZ and LAX-YYZ simply clear customs upon arrival at YYZ?


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 15):
Now YYZ-LAX-SYD would involve clearing customs in YYZ, and in LAX and SYD as well as having to pick up and transfer your bags in LAX.

No it wouldn't. Everyone pre-clears Customs in Canada for flights to the US. I'm fairly certain those people connecting on a flight to SYD at LAX would not have to pick up their bags again, any more than someone connecting from ORD would have to pick up their bags when connecting to SYD.

Quoting YOW (Reply 18):
After pre-clearing US customs at YYZ, YYZ-LAX is essentialy a US domestic flight.

Yep.


User currently onlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting YOW (Reply 18):
On the return, again, why would SYD-YYZ pax need to clear customs at LAX? For a through flight, with the SYD-YYZ pax not deplaning at LAX, wouldn't all SYD-YYZ and LAX-YYZ simply clear customs upon arrival at YYZ?

Using QF 73/74 as an example. Starting this month, when this flight continues from SFO onto YVR, all passengers disembark off the aircraft to clear U.S. Immigration, the luggage stays on the aircraft for those individuals continuing on the same flight. The same thing is true for NZ 1/2 out of LAX but a little different. Passengers continuing onto LHR disembark and are ushered into a room where a CBP Officer checks their passports. When the flight is ready to re-board, they are taken from the room to the plane. The U.S. does not have a traditional transit program like other countries.



John@SFO
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

I wonder if the party-pooper here is QF or actually UA. As a Star Alliance Sister, I think there is a very good probability that United is the fly in the ointment, not wanting AC diluting loads and profits, on what I suspect is a profitable route.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
I wonder if the party-pooper here is QF or actually UA. As a Star Alliance Sister, I think there is a very good probability that United is the fly in the ointment, not wanting AC diluting loads and profits, on what I suspect is a profitable route.

United has nothing to do with bi-lateral treaties between the governments of Canada and Australia. And the US hasn't stood in the way of any foreign carrier starting fifth freedom routes (provided the requisite treaties are in place, of course).


User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 22):
United has nothing to do with bi-lateral treaties between the governments of Canada and Australia. And the US hasn't stood in the way of any foreign carrier starting fifth freedom routes (provided the requisite treaties are in place, of course).

The main trouble for this is coming form the OZ's. They are very protective of the LAX-SYD route overall.


User currently offlineGoBlue From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

Why does AC not just operate, YVR-SYD and YVR AKL daily and forget about LAX for now, they need to estabilsh demand in canada for this service first. Routing everything say YYZ-YVR-AKL/SYD, is going to be only a little longer then via LAX, as clearing customs in LAX, changing bags, and getting stuck on the runway.

25 Zkpilot : All pax arriving into LAX from an Intl flight have to clear customs and collect and transfer their bags with only a few exceptions (1 being NZ1/2 thr
26 Planetime : Higher demand for USA.... LAX might have a lot more premium demand.
27 Post contains links ANother : From Transport Canada's web-site here ------------------------------------------------------- (reformatted from table) 4. Routes and Associated Rights
28 SunriseValley : Are you sure ?
29 Gemuser : Yes! Oz has full fifth freedom rights fromthe USA from any authorised point served in the USA to anywhere "beyond", and QF used them for nearly 30 ye
30 ANother : Where exactly is 'beyond' Australia? Fairly sure, since they operate it.
31 SunriseValley : Thanks for confirming this..
32 Gemuser : PA used to operate to JKT, SIN & BKK on regular services which connected with PA1 & 2 the round the world services in both directions. Some of the ti
33 ANother : Thanks, I had thought the PA rtw services operated via the North Pacific (HKG). But since PA's rtw started in 1947 I suppose anything is possible - bu
34 Post contains links Gemuser : They did! You connected from Oz in BKK or HKG. See this link for more details as at 4/1969: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...ntext=set-72157600
35 Travelin man : I do not think all passengers have to collect bags if they are on a "thru" flight. I think they just have to clear Immigration. My partner & I flew o
36 YOW : There's been a lot of talk about 5th freedoms in this thread, but do Qantas have local traffic rights on LAX-JFK? In other words are QF permitted to
37 Post contains images ANother :
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