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DL To Start JFK-TLV Non-stop Next March?  
User currently offlineJycarlisle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6933 times:

Good Sunday morning/afternoon everyone,

I was reading in this morning's Travel section of the NY Times that DL is planning on starting a non-stop from JFK to TLV next March, (being that they already service this non-stop route from ATL.) Does anyone have more information on this? (I.e., Fleet use, times, etc.?)

Thanks,
Jeremy Carlisle

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6916 times:

Announced back in April


Delta Builds on Success in Tel Aviv with New Nonstop Service from New York
Delta becomes only U.S. carrier to offer nonstop service from two U.S. gateways to Israel

NEW YORK, April 18, 2007 -- Delta Air Lines -- America's fastest growing international airline -- will offer customers a second daily nonstop flight between the United States and Israel with service between New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Tel Aviv, effective March 10, 2008*. The new flight builds on Delta's successful launch of nonstop flights between Atlanta and Tel Aviv in 2006 and will position Delta as the only U.S. airline to offer customers nonstop service from two U.S. gateways to Israel.


http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10648



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3009 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6903 times:

A big money-maker for sure!

User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6881 times:

DL 086 JFK-TLV 21.10-14.55
DL087 TLV_JFK 00.20-0540AM


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

I have a question. What are they using to fly this route? In theory, a 767-300ER could make the nearly 5,700 sm, but winds across the atlantic could certainly stretch this pretty thin on the westbound trip. This is really a route they should have a 777 on, but as we all know, their 777 is stretched as thin as it can get. How are they going to pull this one off?


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6815 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
What are they using to fly this route?

Flight 86/87 will be operated by the 763ER.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6785 times:

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 5):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
What are they using to fly this route?

Flight 86/87 will be operated by the 763ER.

That'll be stretching the legs of the 763ER on the west bound trip. I wonder if they will have the winglets on any of their 763er's, by then, supposedly those help the range out a bit. I suppose the smaller 763ER is a safer choice on this route, competing against 2x daily 777s on CO from EWR and an El Al 744 from JFK.

Does this mean the end of Delta's codeshare with LY on JFK-TLV?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
That'll be stretching the legs of the 763ER on the west bound trip.

Definitely, but there really are no other options. The 764 wouldn't have the legs without restrictions - and the 777 is too limited in available a/c.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6764 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
Does this mean the end of Delta's codeshare with LY on JFK-TLV?

LY-DL codeshare partnership ends this October.


As far as the 763, remember TWA operated TLV-JFK with the type, in addition Israir in recent years has also operated the model on the route, so it can obviously be done.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
As far as the 763, remember TWA operated TLV-JFK with the type, in addition Israir in recent years has also operated the model on the route, so it can obviously be done.

I rarely recall the Israir flights having any issues and those flights go out full every time.


User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

This flight should be a great addition to DL's transatlantic network. It always seemed like a no-brainer route to me, but then again what do I know?

User currently offlineJycarlisle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6617 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Tel Aviv, effective March 10, 2008*

Three days after my 31st Birthday. Gives me something to save up for!  Smile My only reserve about flying a US Airline over to Israel is the security factors versus that of the "all secure" LY. I am sure that I will have nothing to be worried about though.

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 5):
Flight 86/87 will be operated by the 763ER.



Quoting B4REAL (Reply 7):
and the 777 is too limited in available a/c.

I am hoping that DL will have enough increased profits to purchase more T7s for these (or this) operation even though a 767 is feasible. Just wishful thinking.  Smile

Thanks for the information.

Cheers,
Jeremy Carlisle


User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6612 times:

Quoting Jycarlisle (Reply 11):
am hoping that DL will have enough increased profits to purchase more T7s for these (or this) operation even though a 767 is feasible. Just wishful thinking.

You, me, DL route planners, and every DL armchair route planner here on Airliners.net.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6605 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
competing against 2x daily 777s on CO from EWR and an El Al 744 from JFK.

Don't forget LY's EWR service as well-- usually a 744.

JBLU


User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6531 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
and an El Al 744 from JFK.

They actually run 3x daily from JFK 2-744 and 1-772...PLUS 1-744 from EWR


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 9):
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
As far as the 763, remember TWA operated TLV-JFK with the type, in addition Israir in recent years has also operated the model on the route, so it can obviously be done.

I rarely recall the Israir flights having any issues and those flights go out full every time.



Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 14):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
and an El Al 744 from JFK.

They actually run 3x daily from JFK 2-744 and 1-772...PLUS 1-744 from EWR

Wow. I always knew there was demand there, but that is impressive. I had no idea El Al had such a big operation into greater NYC.

Out of curiousity, does anyone know if US has looked at serving PHL-TLV once their A332s arrive, I am certain they could find demand, both O and D and connecting, and if UA has looked at serving it from IAD? It seems like TLV is a market where demand still outstrips supply.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
That'll be stretching the legs of the 763ER on the west bound trip.

True, though ATL-LOS will be even longer for the 763, at around 150nm more than JFK-TLV.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
I wonder if they will have the winglets on any of their 763er's,

They have not yet officially announced that intend, though I'd say that's just a matter of time.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
I suppose the smaller 763ER is a safer choice on this route,

No, DL simply doesn't have anything larger available. Besides, with the EL AL codeshar ending, I can't help but wonder how many pax on EL AL's flights are actually coming from Delta.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
have a question. What are they using to fly this route? In theory, a 767-300ER could make the nearly 5,700 sm, but winds across the atlantic could certainly stretch this pretty thin on the westbound trip.

AC and LY have been using the 767 TLV-YYZ for years. That's about 100 miles further than TLV-JFK.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6496 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
have a question. What are they using to fly this route? In theory, a 767-300ER could make the nearly 5,700 sm, but winds across the atlantic could certainly stretch this pretty thin on the westbound trip.

AC and LY have been using the 767 TLV-YYZ for years, about 100 naut. mi. further than JFK. LY also uses the 767 TLV-MIA nonstop which is about 800 naut. mi. further than JFK.


User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

EL AL runs Schedule Three Times Daily JFK - TLV
1/3 of the year they run Five Flights Daily JFK - TLV

EL AL also runs Three Times Daily 747-200 ALL CARGO. All White Livery.

Once a day to EWR.

Israir flies three times weekly But, everyone hates there service People in Israel are scared to fly them, People in the United States are scared to fly them.

Continental is lucky on this route because they are the only actual competitor to EL AL on this route.
If you want to fly non-stop and you dont want to fly EL AL as alot of people dont want to take there hassle they fly Continental.

Continental has a very big minus, They are departing from EWR not JFK.

This is where Delta would like to come in. I believe the reason they are flying to TLV on a 767 is because lack of aircraft.
But, this will be a very very very big route for them. As it is much easier to fly from JFK for people than EWR.

Brooklyn, has the largest congestion of people that actually travel to Israel than any other place in the world.
People from Brooklyn must pay $35 just to get to EWR you have to travel over two bridges and driving there is close to 40-60 mins depending on traffic.

As soon as the 777LR is going to come on board with Delta they would transfer these to existing routes and take the 777ER from there and go double daily. But, I guess that is only if they dont get China.

DELTA is going to make a killing from this route alone. It will most likely not effect EL AL, EL AL has very loyal customers that would like to give EL AL money. But, It will definitly effect Continental because those people who fly often most likely have SKYTEAM and now they have an alternate airline flying from there home airport.

ATL - TLV is a flight for connecting passangers from all over the country. Delta's flight from NEW YORK is strictly local. If they want to make money in New York they must fly this route.


User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6379 times:
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Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 19):
Continental has a very big minus, They are departing from EWR not JFK.

I don't think service out of EWR is putting CO at a disadvantage -- EWR has repeatedly been known as "New York City's" airport, in terms of ease of access. For Long Islanders traveling to Israel, JFK is certainly easier, but for every Long Islander traveling to Israel, there is also someone from North and Central NJ traveling from EWR, too. With CO's 777s stretched as thin as they are, they wouldn't be running 2x daily to TLV if it wasn't making some serious cash.

JBLU


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6346 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
What are they using to fly this route? In theory, a 767-300ER could make the nearly 5,700 sm, but winds across the atlantic could certainly stretch this pretty thin on the westbound trip.

The route is a non-questionable one. Israir flies the JFK-TLV flight with a 763. Over the years LY, and TW have used the 762, and 763 on the route as well. It is a shame that only now we are seeing more airlines make a profitable use of their 752, and 763 fleets. Until a few years ago Continental was very widebody heavy, with a very select few TATL 752 routes. Today the story is very, very different. Delta has taken a lead pioneered by TW(JFK-LIS, among others), CO(EWR-LIS, among others), BA(JFK-BHX, among others), and FI(JFK-KEF, among others) on the TATL market introducing the 752 on TATL operations. AA(BOS-MAN, among others), NW(DTW-BRU, among others)and US(PHL-LIS, among others) only recently have begun to operate their respective 752 operations across the pond.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 20):
EWR has repeatedly been known as "New York City's" airport, in terms of ease of access.

It is a relative term, not shared by all. Myself being one of those living in Manhattan, that loathes the idea of anything Newark.

-JD


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6339 times:

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 19):
Brooklyn, has the largest congestion of people that actually travel to Israel than any other place in the world.
People from Brooklyn must pay $35 just to get to EWR you have to travel over two bridges and driving there is close to 40-60 mins depending on traffic.

Do you know this for a fact, that Brooklyn has the largest congestion of people who actually travel to Israel. It very well may be true, but please list the source.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6286 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Do you know this for a fact, that Brooklyn has the largest congestion of people who actually travel to Israel. It very well may be true, but please list the source.
Bobnwa,

This is the proof to back up what JFK787NYC was trying to get across. I hope this helps prove his point.

Courtesy of WIKIPEDIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish-Americans

Slight correction as Los Angeles as a whole is the largest single county in the country for Jewish Americans
Los Angeles, California 564,700>By population the largest Jewish American community in the country

The Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island areas as a whole have the largest percentage of Jewish Americans in a combined area
*Kings County, New York (BROOKLYN)379,000
*Nassau County, New York (LONG ISLAND) 207,000
*New York County, New York (MANHATTAN) 314,000
*Queens County, New York (ASTORIA, LGA) 230,000
Total = 1,130,000
Total w/o Manhattan = 816,000

Indeed JFK and its catchment area has the lions share of the traffic.

-JD

[Edited 2007-06-11 00:30:53]

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6237 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 23):
This is the proff to back up what JFK787NYC was trying to get across. I hope this helps prove his point

I'm not questioning the large Jewish population in Brooklyn, but I am questioning the "who actually travel to Israel part"


25 FLYGUY767 : Got It.... Can anyone on here prove this point? -JD
26 Rwy04LGA : Oy geVelt! They should get more 777's and be well.
27 Jycarlisle : If I had a penny for everyone of my (Jewish) friends from Queens and Long Island (not to mention Brooklyn) who travel to Israel and a penny for every
28 FLYGUY767 : I fully agree with you. I have a number of friends who are members of the Temple Emanuel, they go to Israel very often, I would venture to say 2 to 3
29 B4REAL : Mind you also that LY has some super long range 767-200ER that can operate MIA-TLV non stop without restriction, so LY may not be a fair comparable i
30 JFK69 : There are a few ways that the Jews in the NYC area choose the airlines they fly to Israel. 1) Security of LY. You will find many of the elder generati
31 Focus : Not to mention Philly. As long as US or anyone else don't start a PHL-TLV service, getting to EWR (which is right off the NJ tpk) from Philadelphia i
32 Amirs : LY has been using 767 and 752 for many years over the pond. They flew TLV - montreal and Toronto throughout the late 80's and 90's. They has STN - EW
33 JBLUA320 : Yep, true statement. My parents won't fly any other airline to TLV than LY, as with all their friends, my relatives, people from my Temple. If you "f
34 FLYGUY767 : That was in the latter part of the 1990's, and was for a short period. The service was not continual. LY also flew FCO-JFK with the 742 in the latter
35 Jycarlisle : Yes, some of my friends will only fly LY for the pure and simple fact of security and its what they are used to. However the majority of my friends o
36 Klwright69 : Of course LY is famous for security. But I am sure there are added security requirements for all airlines serving Israel. I think this is a lot of per
37 RJpieces : Nonsense...The NYC metropolitan area is large enough to justify nonstop TLV flights from JFK and EWR. There is a reason El Al flies to both airports,
38 JFK69 : There is added security but it's just not the same level. As has been discussed many times here, LY procedure questions the passengers unlike any oth
39 STT757 : Huh?nCO is pretty successful with the route, two daily 777s. CO has 20n777-200ERs, and there are only two routes that get more than one dailyn777 fre
40 Post contains links STT757 : According to the Wikipedia page linked above, NJ has the second largest Jewish population (percentage wise) in the US. In this article from the New Yo
41 JFK787NYC : RJ Peices: Continental is making a tremendous amount of money on this route WHY. Because people like me I travel to Israel Three-Four times yearly DO
42 JFK787NYC : STT757 & RJPeices I know Continental makes good money on this route. I am trying to explain that Continental will have a problem when Delta comes on t
43 STT757 : CO did well with EWR-TLV when DL was flying MD-11s and TWA flying 767-300s from JFK to Tel Aviv in the late 1990s, I think they will be alright now.
44 JFK787NYC : STT757 I do not know which state you are from, But, there is no possible way NEWARK has 417'000 Jews. Newark is the slums of New Jersey. That article
45 STT757 : I said surrounding Newark, Newark is in Essex County which is one of the wealthiest in the State. The home that is depicted as the home of Tony Sorpa
46 Bobnwa : A follow up to my original question. I imagine that the airlines flying to Israel from anywhere in the world carry a large number of passengers who a
47 JFK787NYC : BOBNWA: You are one hundred percent right But, Here is how it goes in real life. Five Biggest Markets (Cities) for travel to Israel: New York-Largest
48 FLYGUY767 : So does that mean that all of the Jewish-Americans living in New Jersey fly on Continental? Talk about one extreme to the next! So what was your poin
49 RJpieces : Yeah, I posted that. There are plenty of examples of it...Another is this organization I used to work for. They have leadership trips to Israel every
50 LXA340 : Day flight is with 772 and night flight with 763, wouldn't be supprised to see double 772's again though. Day flight operated with A343 and night fli
51 Post contains links JFK787NYC : RJ Peices: Please do not get affended I am not trying to disrespect you in anyway. But, that article talks about Jews & Poverty. Jews are not in pover
52 Post contains links RJpieces : Ever been to Meah Shearim, for example? Here you go: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3124397,00.html When Newark's large Jewish population
53 JFK787NYC : I live in Manhattan Beach where do you live? lol on Coleridge and Oriental BLVD. 40s. 50s. 60s is 67 57 47 years ago. We are talking about present day
54 Post contains links JFK69 : I gotta agree with you on this one. Between that and Geulah you really see it exposed. Its funny because the headquarters for IDT is located here and
55 IAD380 : My guess is that DL will face more hurdles in this market than CO. CO is well entrenched on the TLV route, and its flights to Israel have a loyal cus
56 MAH4546 : Agreed. And let's not forget that the days of needing to stop in NYC to get to Tel Aviv are over. Atlanta, Los Angeles, and Miami all now have non-st
57 A380US :
58 JFK787NYC : IAD380 & MAH4546: Both of you are one hundred percent right. That Continental has a heads up on the NYC-TLV route. I will be very very surprised if De
59 JFK69 : For the summer months, you can't really find a cheap economy on LY for less than $1200 and $2500 for business. If DL comes in with those prices it wi
60 IAD380 : Hi JFK787NYC, I have not seen the balance sheets of either airline. However, I have read that CO is financially the strongest American airline that f
61 Post contains images A380US : WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT clearly youev never been on them Ive ben on them and i know many people who have been on them and many people would rather
62 FlyPrivate : EL Al/Continental/Delta/Israir Where will Arkia use there 787'S ?????
63 Post contains links JFK787NYC : A380US Where can you fly Israir instead of EL AL? It's Arkia that people in Israel would rather fly than EL AL. Israir is much cheaper than EL AL on t
64 A380US : isnt the same owner of arkia the owner of LY?
65 JFK787NYC : No the owner of EL AL used to be the owner of ARKIA. MONOPOLY Laws. They were forced to sell it.
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