Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8710 times:
As expected -Mr. Mayrhuber has announced that as of Summer 2008 three new German airports might be eligible for Intercontinetal flights with LH..STR,HAM and DUS.
He would not elaborate on details for competetive reasons,but this hint is clearly a strategy to fight back Gulf and US carriers,that have been opening recently smaller airports in Germany.
In German only.. http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=3746
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8659 times:
I would not expect Mr. Mayrhuber to make false announcements without serious backing from his board...
LH can only grow out of regional airports,considering the limitted space available in FRA and MUC..
The tarmac has limits and slots -even in Germany- are not an expandable commodity..
Since LTU have announced the opening of Berlin as a Long-Distance hub( at least a small one..) ,LH would have an interest to not compete against LTU in TXL.
WILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8473 posts, RR: 78 Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8605 times:
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Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2): I would not expect Mr. Mayrhuber to make false announcements without serious backing from his board...
I am still sceptic... I heard so many things LH planned to do and then did not... for example: retiring the 737s... I was told back in 2003: you will never ever fly 737s at LH... well, I did! Started in 2004 until april 2007. And the 737 will be in the fleet until 2012! Same with the old 747-200! It took nearly 10 years until it was really gone out of LH...
So, I will just wait and see what will happen in the future! sure it is possible and I konw about the problems in MUC and FRA... Had to deal with the traffic there everyday...
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8440 times:
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2): LH can only grow out of regional airports,considering the limitted space available in FRA and MUC..
The tarmac has limits and slots -even in Germany- are not an expandable commodity..
Lufthansa will keep on growing intercontinental traffic at FRA and MUC for a long time to come. While these airports may be slot constraint and crowded, longhaul growth will hardly be hampered by such limitations. I presume that LH will link these regional airports to partner hubs, such as IAD and ORD, so as to establish decent connectivity at least at one end because I guess there are very little viable O&D pairs that include the likes of HAM, STR and DUS unless narrowbodies are deployed.
Notarzt From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 642 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8434 times:
Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter): As expected -Mr. Mayrhuber has announced that as of Summer 2008 three new German airports might be eligible for Intercontinetal flights with LH..STR,HAM and DUS.
Lufthansa already operates intercontinental flights from Dusseldorf to New York-JFK and Chicago (pure Business Class flights operated by PrivatAir with A319CJ), however, medium-sized airports such as Cologne-Bonn, Hamburg, Stuttgart or Hannover are lacking of intercontinental Lufthansa services.
Problem is that Lufthansa's competitors are growing more rapidly, airlines from the U.S. on the one hand, and from the Gulf states on the other hand recently commenced services on transatlantic routes from German airports (Delta from Dusseldorf to Atlanta, Continental from Cologne-Bonn to New York-Newark, Northwest Airlines from Dusseldorf to Detroit, Emirates from Hamburg to New York-JFK)...
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8096 times:
Well, let's see what will actually happen. There had already been talk last year that LH would start to base some A343s in Hamburg this year, and last I know I don't exactly see LH A343s operate out of HAM as regular pax flights. That said, it would be interesting to see what routes they would attempt. Just hope it won't be NYC, having 2 carriers to that market is overkill as is.
HMan From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8008 times:
I hope AB/LT really kicks LH's a** in BER. It's a shame how they avoid the largest city and capital of their home country. They don't even give the city a chance that seems to work for DL, CO, QR, AB and hopefully others soon. Now they want to start intercontinental from about every airport in this country besides TXL??? Hopefully once the others make Berlin a sucessfull international airport it will be to late for LH to get a big share of it.
Don't get me wrong, I like LH, but the way they treat this city is just unbelievable.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6618 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7986 times:
There are two direct flights from STR to LHR on six days a week, one on the seventh. They are operated by Cityline CRJ700s. Would any intercontinental flights from STR be also operated with Cityline aircraft?
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3587 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7925 times:
Just to clarify, the source for that story is the Handelsblatt, the well-respected German business daily. They will publish this "exclusive story" tomorrow. So it is for sure not just another rumour making rounds.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7912 times:
I'm curious to see if these plans for new intercontinental flights out of HAM will eventually become reality. If it does, the 787-8 would be the perfect aircraft for this purpose. It's not too big, and it's not too small.
HMan From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7891 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 13): Just to clarify, the source for that story is the Handelsblatt, the well-respected German business daily. They will publish this "exclusive story" tomorrow. So it is for sure not just another rumour making rounds.
LHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7817 times:
If the 757 had more range, then I'm sure CO would have started serving STR a while ago.
Though besides DL, who else is there to compete with for US flights? I'm not sure of how big STR's market is to accommodate another widebody for an intercontinental flight, but when I flew in and out of there it looked like there wasn't much room for growth.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7694 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7741 times:
I think LH could see a major bump up in flights out of Berlin once Berlin Brandenburg International is fully open. I wouldn't be surprised that LH's upcoming fleet of 747-8I's will be heavily based there, catering to traffic for people dealing with the German government based in Berlin. LH's A380-800 fleet will probably mostly operate out of FRA and MUC, in my humble opinion.
I do think that we will see more international flights from LH out of Stuttgart and Dusseldorf, but with smaller planes. That could mean LH may end up buying A350XWB-800 models for this very purpose.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7639 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19): They should have the range. EWR-STR is barely 38 nm shorter than EWR-TXL in terms of still air distance, so STR would not be such a big problem for a 757.
Pure distance-wise maybe, but the geographical situation of STR would prohibit operations of 757s out of STR to EWR. The combination of high terrain to the east of the take-off runway, compared with often unfavorable winds, on more than one occasion have forced DL to add a fuel stop in BGR on their STR-ATL 763 flight, and the 763ER obviously normally should have more than ample range to do STR-ATL nonstop.
Selcalcheckok From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7537 times:
It has always struck me odd that LH has never went ahead with a NYC-TXL service in recent years. If they have before I can remember, what happened on this route that they gave up, or why have they not tried ?
"Problem is that Lufthansa's competitors are growing more rapidly, airlines from the U.S. on the one hand, and from the Gulf states on the other hand recently commenced services on transatlantic routes from German airports (Delta from Dusseldorf to Atlanta, Continental from Cologne-Bonn to New York-Newark, Northwest Airlines from Dusseldorf to Detroit, Emirates from Hamburg to New York-JFK)..."
Does anyone think that LH can compete by marketing alone ( service, more attractive aircraft ) against these flights if they were to try?
Cgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7527 times:
Yo LH, let's get that DUS-PHL-DUS service up and running!!!!!!!!!!
I'm no expect in the field (that doesn't stop a lot of people here does it?) but I would think DUS would be the top contender. The airport is relatively modern, offers top notch services and is easily accessable to public transportation, NRW is Germany's most populated state, not everyone in the region enjoys/wants to go to FRA to get out of Europe and DUS could certainly start up another long-haul service without having to worry about the time/slot restrictions. A flight going to say...PHL (hint hint) scheduled to leave late morning would allow for pax to connect from the early arrivals from TXL, HAM or STR and also offer incoming pax connections to these cities plus many more.
Again, just my two Eurocents for what they're worth.....
The HAM-DUS connection was afaik only a 737 or so under the same flight number. LH used to have a flight STR-FRA-SFO (LH430 if I recall correctly), but it was also a 737/727 to FRA and then a 747 FRA-SFO.
Didn't HAM also used to have direct flights to Tokio NRT via Anchorage operated by LH 747 somehwere in the 1980s?
25 Philadelphia1: Dont have to tell me twice. Not to mention if there is a codeshare with USAirways, there can be connecting flights to all over the US, Canada and the
26 BOAC911: Those Those were just flight number routings. The domestic portions of those flights were almost always operated by 727/737/A300. Also, LH 404/401 at
27 LHFADUS: Until short after 9/11 LH actually DID operate that route with A342/A343, so it's not that unlikely, that they someday take-over that route again. MU
28 HUYfan: I would hope for Dusseldorf! The problem, however, with anything outside of the FRA/MUC markets, such as HAM or DUS, is filling the front end! Regards
29 ACDC8: Which is why LH flies 2 PrivatAir flights to EWR and ORD 6 days a week? I agree, DUS is a very large leisure market, but the demand is also quite hig
30 HUYfan: That is somewhat true, however, if you consider how the MUC hub started, there is considerably more premium demand for the likes of Asia and the US fr
31 ACDC8: Not necessarily. DUS is within easy driving distance of many world class companies that would like to see this kind of service being offered. Also, i
32 HUYfan: It has been tried and tested before and it doesn't work. LTU is the right carrier for DUS, not LH. Regards Mike
33 ACDC8: It may have, but markets change. LH is a smart airline, they do their homework very carefully. Also, you are underestimating the DUS market greatly.
34 FXMD11: YES, me! Flown DC-10 DUS-JFK in Jan 1993.This was my first Atlantic Crossing.
35 BOAC911: It's very obvious that Hamburg, Düsseldorf, and Berlin customers are willing to take other carriers instead of changing planes at FRA or MUC. This is
36 N1120A: Range really shouldn't be an issue. Even given the conditions at STR, the 757 handily outperforms even the 763ER (which is a hell of a performer itse
37 PanAm92: When ever I have to fly to Hamburg from New York, I try to avoid Frankfurt as much as possible. I used to like there JFK-DUS-HAM service and in the 60
38 Bimmerkid19: maybe start using EK, You might flip out. The service on EK is Top-notch, plus on a A340-500 with their ICE Entertainment System. 60 Movie/TV channel
39 Tomaeroeng: That leads to another question. With what equipment does LH plan to fly transoceanic out of STR? Sometimes, STR switches the active runway to 07 just
40 TriStar500: It will be interesting to see, how AB/LT reacts to this. Although they are currently chiefly operating to beach destinations long-haul (with very few
41 LTU932: The A343 should be able to do it, even if that requires restrictions. Think of SXM, which has a hill behind the RW27 threshold, even closer than the
42 N1120A: The 767 is a far better performer than the A343, despite being a 2 engine aircraft. It's wing design is made for lift and performance and it weighs 1
43 Tomaeroeng: Yes the problem is the engine out performance, as my Flight Instructor told me who flies the MD11. So the 343 should make it, but what about other tw
44 Burkhard: No, it was on a 707 I did it last time . Burkhard
45 ZakHH: Finally! More widebodies for HAM... As already stated above, Berlin is considered by Lufthansa. But in general, I think Berlin is overrated. Size (in
46 Loadsheet: yes - they operated the B742 from FRA via HAM, ANC, NRT to Osaka Itami at that time. 3 stops - unbelievable today. If you want i can pick out a timet
47 COEWRNJ: Didn't LH serve IAD non-stop from either TXL or HAM for a brief time around 2001?
48 Patroni: In the 1980s Condor used to have weekly DC-10 nonstop services STR-JFK, operated for Reisebuero Schwaben International. And that was even before the
49 Cgnnrw: LH served IAD from CGN until early 90's with A310 equipment.
50 SailorOrion: LH did serve TXL-IAD in 2001. About the discussion: I think some routes would be a sensible add-on to the FRA/MUC superhub. Especially routes to ORD,
51 Wsp: Isn't it 1 hour by train now? This option would only be worth talking about if LH were offering the train tickets as part of the deal (or EK for that
52 ZakHH: 93 minutes, to be exact. In theory, to be even more exact , hence I wrote "less than 2 hours". Without having exact figures at hand, I would suppose
53 Columba: No, but remember DUS-EWR flights with A340s. My first transatlantic flight. Agreed Nice dream but I share the same opinion as N1120A: BBI will see A3
54 HMan: Yes, it will be in BBI, close enough for Hamburg . Maybe Hamburg will get international LH flights first but I doubt it will ever become a hub for LH
55 Wsp: http://www.flughafen-berlin.de/EN/Ue...s/Verkehrsstatistik/Jaehrlich.html for scheduled service: domestic: 7.1m internat.: 10.4m This is skewed towar
56 ZakHH: Why should LH build a hub in India? I don't think so, either. But that does not speak against some direct connections to Star hubs in America and Asi
57 Thorben: In the article it says they'll fly long-haul from Berlin, too. Yep, was axed right after 9/11. A342 was used, my last visit in the US. Was a strange
58 LHUSA: Here are some of the changes that I could see in the near future. ORD-HAM or TXL with PrivatAir ORD-DUS Mainline DTW-STR PrivatAir EWR-DUS Mainline EW
59 Humberside: Could DUS-IAD be possible, or does ORD take care of the US connecting market adequately? Arent they keeping the BBJ as well?
60 LHUSA: Both flights are still in the reservation systems, but I don't expect the Business Jet to stay on that route with the new mainline service. Haven't h
61 Columba: Doubtful a reason why all the longhaul flights from TXL were axed was the lack of business travelers. Agreed, maybe they would fly to a United hub li
62 N1120A: Yes. It was a decent performer too but it lost out to post-9/11 costs and would have likely stuck around if the Privatair deal had been around still.
63 Beaucaire: To add to the chapter - also NUE is planning to offer flights to New York.. As reported in today's local newspaper,Nürnberger Nachrichten,the airport
64 Thorben: I say they'll do TXL-IAD, because IAD is a UA hub. DL and CO have tons of connections at JFK resp. EWR. Given how LH has treated Berlin in the past I
65 Johnnybgoode: i would be surprised if they put 748s there. clearly, that is a huge plane which needs lots of feeder flights. even with a possible LH expansion at B
66 HT: Wouldn't LH actually have a "Triple-hub strategy" at present considering its control over LX ? When searching for longhaul flights (out of HAJ) on LH