Quote: As the summer vacation season approaches, airlines are growing increasingly concerned about children bringing cell phones, portable video game consoles and other electronic devices onto planes, as they could interfere with navigation systems.
Airlines are especially concerned about children's cell phones, which contain a built-in crime prevention function that automatically restarts the phone if it is switched off.
In March last year, NTT DoCoMo Inc. introduced the Kids Keitai, which includes a built-in global positioning system that allows the handset to send e-mails or transmit a signal notifying parents of their current location.
Quote: The latest portable video game consoles, such as the Nintendo DS and Sony's PlayStation Portable, also are potential sources of trouble for airlines as they are equipped with wireless communication devices for online gaming.
But the function is not yet covered in rules on electronic devices on planes set by the Construction and Transport Ministry.
Airlines currently have flight attendants ask passengers using such consoles to turn off the wireless communication function.
N776AU From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 722 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8024 times:
My phone came on on a flight to ATL from LAX and nothing happened. I had taken it out of my pocket and put it in my bag, where I thought it wouldn't turn on. A couple hours into the flight I decided to check it, and it was on. don't know for how long, but it was still on. Then it hit me, "I'll take the battery out".
I'm a smart cookie
Careful, Doors Are Closing And Will Not Reopen. Please Wait For The Next Train
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7905 times:
This further confirms my feeling that airlines/aircraft makers must expect many phones to be on during flight. To expect otherwise would be stupid and highly negligent. If an aircraft that is negatively impacted by operating cell phones is involved in an accident because of those phones, and that fact is proven... lawsuit city (in the US at least).
Note that I'm not arguing the merits of bans on using cell phones on airplanes; I'm just saying that no competent person in airline management can expect people to turn off phones during flight. It would be like driving and ignoring the possibility of jaywalkers.
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7752 times:
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4): How do you figure this, exactly? Most aircraft currently in service were designed long before cell phones existed for the traveling public.
I'm not claiming that aircraft are vulnerable to crash because cellphone RF interference, but if they are, and it's known, then operating them would be negligent (unless you confiscate cell phones from all pax). It does not matter when the aircraft was designed. Of course this is a matter of degree.
Imagine an executive in court: "Well, we knew it was dangerous to operate, but the design was old, so we felt it was okay not to fix it."
Luckily it's pretty clear that cellphones are quite harmless; I'd bet the vast majority (>90%; source: my rear end) of flights go out with active cellphones.
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2624 posts, RR: 45 Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Quoting Analog (Reply 6): I'm not claiming that aircraft are vulnerable to crash because cellphone RF interference, but if they are, and it's known, then operating them would be negligent (unless you confiscate cell phones from all pax).
No, it would be negligent if the airline KNEW that a cellphone was on and operated in contravention of the FARs.
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7636 times:
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 7):
No, it would be negligent if the airline KNEW that a cellphone was on and operated in contravention of the FARs.
I would say the anyone running an airline KNOWS that x% of flights will go out with cellphones on, and that y% of flights have pax who will operate cellphones during takeoff, flight, and/or landing, where x and y are non-trivial percentages. Any airlines that operate otherwise live in a fantasy world where everyone follows the rules all the time. 100% a priori knowledge of the event is not required for one to be expected to act to prevent harm from such an event (irrespective of FARs).
By the article posted by the OP, it seems that ANA and JAL know that cellphones are operated on their aircraft. Of course on domestic flights no FARs are violated, right.
Venezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1413 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7622 times:
I have left my phone accidentally on, and when I check it halfway throguh the flight it never picks up signal.
And also I have turned my laptop on thats got wireles, the Wi-Fi never picks up anything and I did look up devices once on bluetooth and it only picked up someone else's laptop but no aircraft equipment
N710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7602 times:
I routinely leave my cells on in flight but not normally on purpose. I usually turn my cell off by the time we are number two to go or if we are expecting to roll from brakes release all the way I turn it off as soon as we have the salute from the ramp.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
ADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1275 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7518 times:
99.9999% of devices won't cause any damage on 99.9999% of flights - but on some day a broken plane (say with frayed antenna shielding) with a high power cell (They go into higher power mode when they can't get a signal) or a broken RC toy or broken $5 FM radio could cause interference with voice, navigation, etc. That interference could make a bad situation worse. Then blammo a crash caused by a cell phone.
Everyone knows that in regular use a cell phone won't cause anything bad to happen to a plane.
But I have an CB walkie talkie that when plugged into the cigarette lighter of my car causes the horn not to work. Anything else plugged in - no problem. I can't even come up with a good explanation on why anything would cause a very simple circuit (the horn) to fail.
Bimmerkid19 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7516 times:
Hmm imagine this,, WIFI inflight. On December 26th 2006, I flew on KE from ORD to ICN That was one of the last days that the Connexion by Boeing Service was operating. I had wireless for almost the entire flight and plus an inseat power port .. in Economy.. Nice
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7423 times:
Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 14): Hmm imagine this,, WIFI inflight. On December 26th 2006, I flew on KE from ORD to ICN That was one of the last days that the Connexion by Boeing Service was operating. I had wireless for almost the entire flight and plus an inseat power port .. in Economy.. Nice
Too bad that is no more. It was fast (bandwidth & latency) enought to run Skype, barely.
Hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 856 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7094 times:
On a British Airways flight that I was on, they repeatedly asked customers to make sure their cell-phones were switched off during the approach pattern as it was clear that they were having difficulty communicating with the tower. After two announcements that the FA made, the pilot actually came, (in a somewhat distressed voice) and asked all passengers to check and verify that their phones were off and not in a transmit mode. So I guess cell-phones do pose a danger to flights, and sometimes it's very obvious when it occurs.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2143 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6610 times:
Quoting Centrair (Thread starter): which contain a built-in crime prevention function that automatically restarts the phone if it is switched off.
Just confiscate that d$%? battery and you can be assured it won't start again. There is always hope that airplanes can stay one of the very few cellphone-free public spaces. (note : yes, I own a cellphone)
PiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6198 times:
I know that on our B1900's it is very obvious that there is a cell phone(s) on during flight. One of our pilots told me that when a cell phone is on during flight there is a very annoying hissing and/or humming sound they can hear on their headphones, upon which time they will ask everyone to check their electronic devices.
LHRGregSE4 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 24 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6094 times:
Can anyone point to a study that acutaly verifies the claim that cell phones interefere with today's navigation devices. I think it's just scare mongering. Are there any incidents that were caused by apperant electronic use during takeoff or cruise?
Jerald01 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 161 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6078 times:
Okay, so what is the REAL beef about using cell-phones on a commercial passenger flight:
1. It's against Federal Aviation Regulations.
1a. Why did the FAA implement those regulations?
2. It interferes with the aircraft navigation / communication system(s).
2a. Has this been proven? Are there any a-netter pilots out there who can definitively say they have experienced such interference on planes they were flying?
3. It overloads the cell-phone system by elevating individual cell phones to an altitude where more cell towers than the system was designed for are receiving signals from any one of the individual elevevated cell phones, thus causing the entire cell-phone system to deteriorate.
3a. Is there real proof that this happens?
4. Does anyone REALLY want to hear 100+ passengers yakking on their cell-phones within the confines of an aircraft cabin during a flight?
4a. Why did I ask that last question? D-U-M-B !!!
Well, maybe not so dumb... maybe that is the REAL reason the FAA enacted such a rule, and they did it so that the individual airlines wouldn't get hammered by the passengers for insisting the cell phones be turned off. The airlines don't have to take the heat from passengers for making that rule, because the FAA made it for them (at their insistence).
Think about it...
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21310 posts, RR: 60 Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5859 times:
Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 19): I know that on our B1900's it is very obvious that there is a cell phone(s) on during flight. One of our pilots told me that when a cell phone is on during flight there is a very annoying hissing and/or humming sound they can hear on their headphones, upon which time they will ask everyone to check their electronic devices.
When I have my cellphone near my laptop, and then someone else around me uses their cellphone, I get a variation in brightness of the LCD backlight, sort of a flicker that doesn't go completely black.
But this doesn't happen when JUST my phone is in use. Thus there is likely a compounding effect of frequencies creating peaks and voids.
One can expect such a problem on a plane as well. Maybe one phone can't do much. But without the proper shielding, can 20 phones, all in various stages of sweeping the frequency and power spectrums for signal, creating a grid of peaks and voids in frequencies at various power levels, will that cause interference?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Baron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5533 times:
Another reactionary and dinosauric industry reaction. Despite multiple attempts, there has NEVER EVER been ANY scientifically documented instance of ANY portable electronic device interfering with any critical airplane function. NONE. if you take away the annecdotal pilots compplaint of buzz in their intercom, there is NOTHING.
On any given flight at least a handfull of electronic devices with wireless radios are left on and transmitting thorughout the flight and NOTHING EVER happens. Most laptops when turned on now have their WIFI connection search for pase stations and link to other computers. Nintendo DS and DSlite have WIFI and console to console wireless links. Cell phones are frequently left on in bags and carry-on luggage and are often turned on on people's pockets.
This ban on wireless devices in unecessary and ridiculous. The idustry should just get off this note. The ban on cell phones was exclusively designed to allow the airline air phones to charge you $8/min to make an in-flight call.
Thank god that has been killed, when the airlines realized that people are not stupid and they were simply carrying around extra weight.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
25 Typhaerion: Let me see if I can take a crack at answering these. For 1a see the answer to 2a. For 2a, if you do a little research in the discussion forums on this
26 Aeroman444: It's been tested. As long as the phone is not within a few inches of the electronics it won't interfere with the aircraft systems. Think about it. Pre
27 Starlionblue: If it was really important, the operators would simply install cell phone and wifi detectors on the aircraft. But this is one of those "not worth the
28 Baron95: And the pilots know that the problem was caused by 0.6W cell phone tranmiters HOW???!!!!???? Did they eliminate the 2000W weather radar in a plane in
29 UAL777: That is true. When I fly, I sometimes forget to turn off my cellphone and if someone calls me it causes a NASTY interference with the radios. There i
30 Starlionblue: I refer you to the link I posted in reply 27.
31 JamesJimlb: i've actually sent a message on my phone while we were decending and nothing happened.
32 Typhaerion: Easy Chief. I am not trying to start a war here. But I do hope that you realize that it has nothing to do with the relative power and everything to d
33 FLY2HMO: I haven't personally experienced anything too drastic, yet, aside from the some chirping on my headphones that I also hear on my computer speakers at
34 Dl757md: Also from the article if you read a little further down. As a result of these and other investigations, Boeing has not been able to find a definite c
35 AirframeAS: To prevent air-rage by pax, of course! Just because there isn't any scientific documentation on the issue does not make it okay to use it on the airc
36 Justloveplanes: The answer to me is just shielding of electronics to EMI or use of other frequencies that don't collide with the airplane electronics. I would think t
37 BuyantUkhaa: This one immediately came to mind: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation) And also Effects
38 Tod: The JCAB is interested in the subject. http://www.icao.int/anb/panels/acp/WG/F/WGF7/wgf7_wp27.doc Tod
39 FlyBeQ400: The average 747 flight has 6 mobile phones left on whilst on-board. The one thing you will notice if you left your phone on would be the very low batt
40 Cjh2007: who gives actually gives a crap. there is no real proven data that cell phones have actually interfered with any airplanes navigation or control syste
41 Aa757first: What's the advantage of keeping a cell phone (that you're not allowed to talk on anyway) for an extra five minutes? Why not just turn it off when the
42 Avallillo: It sounds like most of these memos are being written by non-pilots! As a pilot for over 30 years for a major airline in the USA, I have had several co
43 LVHGEL: In a Kids Cell Phone, a battery is fixed and cant be removed from the device, unless the device is destroyed. Regarding all the "yes you can" "no you
44 Ward86IND: "Boeing conducted a laboratory and airplane test with 16 cell phones typical of those carried by passengers, to determine the emission characteristic
45 Pizzaandplanes: They're just the next generation a.netters on their phones in the sky reading the forums.