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Aer Lingus Looking At New BFS Base  
User currently offlineBHD From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 280 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Just came across this on BBC:

Aer Lingus considers Belfast base

Wonder how serious the are considering this, and how the BFS-LHR would compete against the already established and well served BHD-LHR.

Woody

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

I can't quite fathom this. Surely, with the improved connections from the North to Dublin Airport, opening a base at BFS would dilute their home market somewhat. Surely.

There was a thread on this a week or so ago too, but it didnt generate much interest unfortunately.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

I was under the impression that BFS had been discarded and only MAN and BHX were contenders.

BFS WAS a serious contender earlier, so it may be that they have come back with an offer and some regional support that is too good to simply ignore and they are back in the hunt.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 1):
can't quite fathom this. Surely, with the improved connections from the North to Dublin Airport, opening a base at BFS would dilute their home market somewhat. Surely.

BFS is a UK route and DUB is a Republic of Ireland route. There are many around BFS that would not even contemplate flying from DUB. Anyway this is just a contender in a short list of options incl BHX. Time will tell. EI will have tough competition at BFS.

Also see :::

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/mhkfeygbsngb/

Politicians hope Aer Lingus picks Belfast as British hub
12/06/2007 - 11:20:10

Politicians in the North are vowing to do whatever they can to get Aer Lingus to choose Belfast Airport as its new British hub.

Aer Lingus is deciding whether to locate the hub in Belfast or Birmingham.

DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson says the move could bring 1,000 jobs and 15 new European routes to Belfast, as well as the possibility of a reinstated link to Heathrow.

He says the investment would be a resounding vote of confidence in the new political arrangements and the DUP is ready to help in any way it can.

[Edited 2007-06-12 12:24:44]


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Hi

This is just my view.

I can see Aer Lingus flying BHD-LHR to compete with BMI. BHD-LHR is used for connections, lots of people prefer to fly to Heathrow & because of this they can charge higher fares than Easyjet..

However I think that that will be it. Schedule services to Europe from Belfast have always been difficult to sell until the low cost carriers started and I think they now have pretty much have covered all the possible routes. Remember Northern Ireland is not that big a place.

Rich


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
BFS is a UK route and DUB is a Republic of Ireland route.

Get away. 21 years I spent growing up in Northern Ireland, and I never knew that.....  sarcastic  I don't see your point.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
There are many around BFS that would not even contemplate flying from DUB.

Those are likely to be the narrowmindeed fools that have held both countries back for nigh on 30 years. But times are-a-changin' and price is the key for most people these days when choosing their airline. Aer Lingus have triied to make a go of feeding their ops from SNN in the past, proving a degree of commitment that BMI and BA have sadly failed to demonstrate. Us Ulster folk are and do travel to Dublin in droves for longhaul opportunities, choosing to bypass the mess that is FlyBE (for connections) or Heathrow. So Longhaul growth from BFS is clikely to be a non-starter.

As for shorthaul, and as I said above, aside from eating into the home market, I can't see or think of any growth opportunities in the shorthaul market that U2, WW and LS haven't already begun to tap into. So why risk it?

As Cornish says, MAN or BHX seem to be the most likely (in my mind) opportunity for a mix of short and longhaul growth.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 1):
North to Dublin Airport, opening a base at BFS would dilute their home market somewhat. Surely.



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 5):
Get away. 21 years I spent growing up in Northern Ireland, and I never knew that..... I don't see your point.

As per your reply above !!! Dilute their home market!!!! Its two seperate markets . A BFS base would not affect DUB traffic to the extent that they would be worried. I have worked in the industry in NI and ROI and currently still am. I do how ever agree with your last comments RE: U2/WW/LS. I cant see EI making money on short haul.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineRineanna From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 1):
Surely, with the improved connections from the North to Dublin Airport, opening a base at BFS would dilute their home market somewhat.



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 5):
and price is the key for most people these days when choosing their airline.

 checkmark 

The A1/N1 and the M1 make it a very short trip indeed. Plus, the good exchange rate in the Pound's favour makes DUB an attractive option also.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
Dilute their home market!!!! Its two seperate markets . A BFS base would not affect DUB traffic to the extent that they would be worried

The location of either market is irrelevant. DUB is too close to BFS for a joint operation to be succesful. It'd be akin to BA operating some routes from both LHR and STN. Pointless,

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
I have worked in the industry in NI and ROI and currently still am

Your point being? Most people on these boards do too. But like anything in life, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
Dilute their home market

He's absolutely right, there are a large amount of people that choose to bus or drive to DUB and take a flight from there rather then connect through the UK... interestingly also some charters out of DUB tend to be mostly Northern Irish.



John Hancock
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

Quoting Rineanna (Reply 7):
The A1/N1 and the M1 make it a very short trip indeed. Plus, the good exchange rate in the Pound's favour makes DUB an attractive option also.

Bear in mind that Flybe and Jet2 have lots of routes often cheaper than DUB alternatives. Even though Flybe are not the most reliable from personal experience. Jet2 have alot of good routes from BFS and especially PRG and BCN if booked in advance. I often have booked clients from this side of the border out of BFS as it has been cheaper. It all depends on the date/day/time I guess but I always check both.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 8):
The location of either market is irrelevant. DUB is too close to BFS for a joint operation to be succesful. It'd be akin to BA operating some routes from both LHR and STN. Pointless,

Much bigger populations as im sure you know!!!

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 8):
Your point being? Most people on these boards do too. But like anything in life, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

I can only go on the experience of dealing with major corporate accounts on both sides of the border over the last 12 years and also working with the higher end of the leisure market. I have clients in the North that will not fly from Dublin and clients in the South that will not fly from BFS/BHD. Even if the fares €100 less!!!

Anyway that aside I dont think EI would make much money from a BFS operation.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
Flybe and Jet2 have lots of routes often cheaper than DUB



Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
I often have booked clients from this side of the border out of BFS as it has been cheaper. It all depends on the date/day/time I guess but I always check both.

Pax going north would be unusual from my experience, and certainly not the price sensitive ones! Perhaps some business travellers 'go north' to reach some unserved destinations from DUB. but not the leisure market that makes up the bulk of EI's customer base.

But you prove my point nonetheless. Irrespective of which way potential pax travel, north or south, one or both markets would be affected in some capacity so as to make a dual operation unlikely.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 9):
He's absolutely right

Why, thank you! Big grin

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):
Even if the fares €100 less!!!

They may have if they where going to fly EI  Wink



John Hancock
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5079 times:

It may be more logical to pick Birmingham, but I strongly believe there is a lot of pressure behind the scenes to get EI to pick BFS and when you consider that much of that pressure comes from the DUP (who would have blown a gasket at the very thought of such a development 10 or even 5 years ago), you can see how far things have developed in NI. Although EI is privatised and the Irish govt doesn't hold quite the same sway, I think there will be a lot of pressure from Dublin too.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 12):
so as to make a dual operation unlikely.

Well I agree with you there . I really cant see it happening but there seems to be alot of ''politics'' and ''poilitians'' trying to get this so who knows. Its nice to see both sides agreeing and working for the good of NI investment. Time will tell and maybe we will all be proved wrong.

I used to love flying EI A330 from BFS to SNN and sometimes onwards to JFK. Was great to see it fly over my house near Cavehill all those years ago. It would be nice to see them back at BFS but its all about making money.

7L !!! Air Belfast , that brings back memories of my BFS to STN flights. Great little airline, shame they went. Didnt they also have a arm called AB Shannon???



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):
I can only go on the experience of dealing with major corporate accounts on both sides of the border over the last 12 years and also working with the higher end of the leisure market.

With the greatest respect, theres a difference between 'booking' such flights (as I assume you do from your posts), and planning the travel budgets and expenditure for such clients. And I can assure you, as this is what I do, that most 'major' corporates with which you suggest you deal, have predetermined travel policies which often state that savings opportunities within certain trip windows and a reasonable radius from 'home' must be explored. If your MI reportings are correct, and being ignored - then either your customers travel planning is poorly managed or not enforced, or your major customer isn't spending the tens-of-millions of pounds/euros on air travel that I am used to talking about.

The missed savings you suggest, when factored into the travel time and the cost of the employees time are largely irrelevant anyway. Most employers value their employees time at more than a GBP70/EUR100 saving. But If they can and are repeatedly rejecting this savings opportunity, and getting away with it, then they are not price sensitive customers. And this argument has thus far been based on price sensitive travellers.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

You will always get some people who will not travel any distance to get to an airport. This is regardless of borders.

Some people who live or work east of London think that Heathrow is far to far away and some people who work or live in West London think that Luton or Stantsed might as well be on the moon.

The same works in Belfast. My parents who are getting on a bit think that the trip to Dublin airport is to far. In reality Belfast City to Dublin airport is a shorter travel time than from my house in North East London to Heathrow.

However as someone has all ready pointed out if the journey is long haul pax are much more willing to travel to an airport that’s further away that have to take a connecting flight.

Back to the topic IF EI were to fly to a European city from BFS that they already fly to from Dublin I don’t think it would effect there Dublin passengers that much. Also remember that there are parts of NI that are closer to DUB than BFS.


Rich


User currently offlineFindingnema From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
It may be more logical to pick Birmingham

Am I missing something big, or why would BHX be a logical choice for EI to open a new base? flybe have a massive base on domestic and French flights, and have recently expanded to serving major cities following the BA Connect take-over, with an indication they will look at BHX to future expansion through their near exclusive terminal T2. Monarch have flights to the Med sown up with their Monarch Scheduled service, again with BHX being eyed for another based aircraft next year. bmibaby have 9 based aircraft serving a mixture of business and leisure routes, likely to go up to as much as 12 by the end of next year. Add to this all of the major carriers who feed their own hubs for onward connections, and it's a very saturated market to get established in. Not mentioning EMA up the road with Ryanair, bmibaby and easyJet bases as well as Thomsonfly's CVT base.



My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
7L !!! Air Belfast , that brings back memories of my BFS to STN flights. Great little airline, shame they went. Didnt they also have a arm called AB Shannon???

Oh we had many guises. AIr Belfast, AB Shannon, Air Bristol, AB AIrlines. None ever really worked and we went tits up. But hey, we codeshared with EI on SNN-BHX, and we kept SNN-LGW going longer than the BFS-STN and BFS-LGW flights. But then the 733's arrived, european services started to SXF, and along came FR and U2 and Debonairr. Soon our 'First for Value' slogan became, well, a lie. And we disappeared quicker than Linda McCartneys leg as she walked through a termite farm.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 19):
Oh we had many guises. AIr Belfast, AB Shannon, Air Bristol, AB AIrlines. None ever really worked and we went tits up. But hey, we codeshared with EI on SNN-BHX, and we kept SNN-LGW going longer than the BFS-STN and BFS-LGW flights. But then the 733's arrived, european services started to SXF, and along came FR and U2 and Debonairr. Soon our 'First for Value' slogan became, well, a lie. And we disappeared quicker than Linda McCartneys leg as she walked through a termite farm.

I actually have some pics of Air Belfast and in the cabin etc... I just thought it was nice for Belfast to have their own wee airline.

Re: Travel budgets etc... there are guidelines etc... but to be honest unless the ''employee'' (client) was really booking crazy priced flights then we do just use our common sense. If there happens to be a Y class fare say BFS to EWR and only Y class was available which is currently GBP2273 return then we would have to email the companies accounts dept to run it by them before we could issue. Most fares we issue are J class on Nett rates so we dont really have a problem unless J is full and these rates are much lower than IATA fares. I always try to offer the best price with the best routes and times. Sometimes its hard but I give all options BFS and DUB then at least ive covered my own ass.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting Findingnema (Reply 18):
Am I missing something big, or why would BHX be a logical choice for EI to open a new base? flybe have a massive base on domestic and French flights, and have recently expanded to serving major cities following the BA Connect take-over, with an indication they will look at BHX to future expansion through their near exclusive terminal T2. Monarch have flights to the Med sown up with their Monarch Scheduled service, again with BHX being eyed for another based aircraft next year. bmibaby have 9 based aircraft serving a mixture of business and leisure routes, likely to go up to as much as 12 by the end of next year. Add to this all of the major carriers who feed their own hubs for onward connections, and it's a very saturated market to get established in. Not mentioning EMA up the road with Ryanair, bmibaby and easyJet bases as well as Thomsonfly's CVT base.

Theres a quite a few opportunities at BHX, and while some of these are served at CVT and EMA, I think they could be sustained by EI at BHX as well

GVA - currently no year round flights
ZRH - LoCo competitiopn for SWISS
Venice
Madrid
Valencia
Berlin
Budapest
Poznan



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 21):
Poznan

Poznan?? Of all the routes to suggest, where is your thinking that Poznan could sustain a service from BHX over places like Warsaw, Krakow and Gdansk?

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 22):
Poznan?? Of all the routes to suggest, where is your thinking that Poznan could sustain a service from BHX over places like Warsaw, Krakow and Gdansk?

7L

Is there some kind of a big factory or something there??? We do loads of tickets for Irish companies going to Poznan and also to Katowice. There must be something going on there. Also alot of the Polish workers in our area are from these places and Rzeszow.

[Edited 2007-06-13 11:13:20]


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 21):
Theres a quite a few opportunities at BHX, and while some of these are served at CVT and EMA, I think they could be sustained by EI at BHX as well

Some might well be, but from my recent experience of dealing with BHX, their route/business development people left me decidedly underwhelmed. It explained a lot to me about why BHX's traffic has stagnated so much in recent years.....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 Humberside : I suggested Poznan because it is an existing EI destination, Norweigan do BHX-WAW, SkyEurope do BHX-Krakow and EI do not currently serve Gdansk. Of c
26 N1120A : The question is, if they are so short sighted, would the fly EI in the first place?
27 OA260 : Well I presume you mean the political set up there?? In the past I have heard things on both sides of the divide that would make you sick to be quite
28 Post contains links LH121GLA : Glasgow is still in contention for this base also: http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-lingus-to-use-belfast-700881.html Surely GLA would be the o
29 OA260 : LOL..no offence taken I love GLA and its people more so than EDI and I dont mean that in a bad way just my experiences. If EI can make a go of GLA th
30 AirNZ : Where? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but just more curious as I certainly can't think of any offhand.
31 OA260 : Well Newry / Crossmaglen / Cullyhanna are nearly half way between the two . Newry to Dublin Airport 60.8 miles Newry to Belfast International 50 mile
32 7LBAC111 : And MAN.... 7L
33 Cornish : I suspect both NI and Scottish authorities are pushing hard with all sorts of grants and concessions in a bid to get EI. It may well be that EI is bac
34 Revo : When will we know when the new base is chosen?
35 COEI2007 : The base is due to open at the start of 2008, so i'd say they'll announce the base by the end of the summer. If they plan on the base being in operati
36 ClassicLover : I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but a friend of mine is cabin crew for EI and he's been offered transfer to Manchester for the new base that is pla
37 OA260 : Cool will be insteresting . Although I will await the official press release.
38 Smokeyrosco : MAN makes more sense then BFS I think, only thing is there will be real competition at MAN, it will be interesting to see.
39 Aisak : To me, BFS makes more sense than any other base in England or Scotland. Reason: BFS is on the same island than their other 3 bases. That means a bette
40 David_itl : "Manchester's our second home" (c) Aer Lingus 1960-1978, 1988-1995. So perhaps we can look forward to part 3 of the MAN-mailand Europe scene by EI, t
41 Humberside : I guess EI would be prime candidates to restore MAN-MAD. GVA (not served from MAN in summer) could be another good destination on an all year round ba
42 AirNZ : Cheers OA260! As I said, I wasn't disagreeing with Richcandy and was just curious as I couldn't think offhand of any which were actually closer. Yep,
43 Post contains images OA260 : No probs , I live near the area and had to look up the exact mileage so dont worry LOL.... I use both DUB and BHD . Flight timings and price are the
44 COEI2007 : You have a point, however -MAN has a significantly larger catchment than BFS, and MAN has the added advantage of long-haul potential. If EI wants to,
45 BHD : Same here - I live in Belfast but my previous three flights have both been out of DUB - IST, BCN and PIT. Fares and timetabling made it a more attrac
46 Legoguy : I thought Belfast would have been a better choice. It's all about public image. Most people in Manchester will think that Aer Lingus will only fly fro
47 David_itl : For the best part of two decades EI operated out of MAN to Europe (perhaps more, need PhilB to confirm when they began - it ended in 1978, and then w
48 Bmi330 : It must make sense tohave a base at GLA there is hardly any compition to any european city and thy could make the place a fortris with out to much of
49 COEI2007 : PIK is a base for FR, so if EI open a base in GLA, you can bet on FR opening similar if not the same routes, and offering them at rediculously low fa
50 Post contains images MEA-707 : I suppose you mean Heather Mills leg??
51 Post contains images 7LBAC111 : Haha - yes I think I did. Though to be honest neither of them are in a particularly strong position when it come down to the, er, bone.... 7L
52 Revo : So which airport is the favourite for the base now?
53 ClassicLover : As I wrote earlier, an EI Cabin Crew told me (completely off the cuff) that he's been offered a contract in MAN for 6 months for the new base there,
54 OA260 : Yes my monies on MAN now also . EI have also been in discussions with their handlers at MAN for extra check in desks. I dont know why they would do th
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