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Skybus RIC - GSO Right Now  
User currently offlineQwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 380 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKB4061

Any ideas why?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4968 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

I would have said this in just two words, but the system won't let me, so...

Flag stop?


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

They have a New 4th Plane set to start service today...I believe it has something to do with that. Maybe a Repositioning Flight?...


Not really sure...but odd none the less.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

My guess: some schedule/plane issues, so they merged the CMH-RIC and CMH-GSO flights into one, since the loads on both routes probably are low, and they could combine both into one plane.


a.
User currently offlineQwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

That makes mucho sense. I thought they only had three. I saw the Oakland flight today, and thinking only three planes doubly wondered why they would be moving a plane between a city pair that did include CMH.

I guess I still wonder a bit. Perhaps they have intentions to do that pair and are running a proving flight. Who knows with these guys, my jury is still out.


User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Proving run? Is that one of the routes we found in the flight status system a few weeks ago?

User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

Loads must be low, But if you look at tickets for both cities, most are running into into the $100 to $150 range which points at 80% or higher loads, as reported in the local papers as well. In fact, the local media has been doing surprising segments on Skybus, including local talk radio, that have taken trips and reviewed the service. And local businesses have embraced them too.

So despite MAH4546 saying GSO and RIC are mistakes and the constant Skybus is making mistakes... give it up.

And I know MAH4546 and I have gotten into it before, I still say you are from Sweden. It says it in your profile. So why does someone from Sweden care so much about GSO and RIC, let alone Skybus despite living in Chicago or Miami.

My guess, Skybus is starting new routes and has been quoted in the papers are starting other point to point destinations.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Quoting Gsoflyer (Reply 6):

And I know MAH4546 and I have gotten into it before, I still say you are from Sweden. It says it in your profile. So why does someone from Sweden care so much about GSO and RIC, let alone Skybus despite living in Chicago or Miami.

Never mind the fact I'm a US citizen that has lived here for 15+ years. The fact that I was born in Sweden is moot. Give it up.

I care about Skybus because I like to follow the airline industry closely, and I think Skybus is making big mistakes. I'm allowed my own opinion, like it or not, as are many airline industry analysts who are predicting Skybus' failure.

We'll see in a year to 18 months who is right. I doubt they are getting excellent loads to GSO and RIC flying to Columbus and not allowing connections, and I doubt the accuracy of a newspaper article whose sole source is a biased airline that is obviously not going to say otherwise. GSO-FLL and RIC-FLL could be winners (load-wise, at least), like CMH-FLL, which has reportedly been Skybus' best performing route (no surprise, it is the only one going to a large airport).

So far, early loads for Skybus are healthy, which is a good sign. Though I stand by my prediction that Skybus will be gone within two years. That's my opinion, I could easily be wrong.

Also, I realize you don't like why guess as to why the flight was operated like it or not, it is the most likely reason. They don't need a freaking prooving run on RIC-GSO. That is absolutely ridiculous, especially when they are running such a tight fleet. There were probably some delays somewhere, and they were able to combine both flights into one. It isn't a rare practice. jetBlue has combined Florida flights (i.e. JFK-TPA-FLL) when they are short on airplanes and can fit both flights onto one plane.

[Edited 2007-06-13 00:19:25]


a.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
The fact that I was born in Sweden is moot. Give it up.

I was born in California. Lived there for one year. Moved to Virginia and lived here for 10 years now. Does that make me from California?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
RIC-FLL could be winners (load-wise, at least)

Obviously not because Delta Connection pulled out of there last year.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
I was born in California. Lived there for one year. Moved to Virginia and lived here for 10 years now. Does that make me from California?

Yes, it does make you from California. But who cares? This has nothing to do with anything.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
Obviously not because Delta Connection pulled out of there last year.

What does that have to do with anything? American Eagle has been flying MIA-RIC successfully for three years. AirTran flies FLL-PHF year-round, successfully. Delta Connection was using high-cost RJs on a multitude of Florida-Southeast routes and it just was not a good idea. FLL-RIC was actually one of the most popular of DL's FLL-RJ routes, and was flown 3x daily and one of the last to be discontinued, along with FLL-GSO. The fact is that those RJs were not the best aircraft for the route. Skybus can do FLL-GSO and FLL-RIC successfully, and I would bet money they will be doing at least one of them by year's end.

Flying routes to Florida, Vegas, and Southern California from various mid-size cities is where the Skybus model has the best chance of success, not idiotic routes like CMH-GSO and CMH-PSM.

[Edited 2007-06-13 00:49:26]


a.
User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Depends on your meaning of connection.

As was said in the newspapers and from callers on the radio, connecting with no checked luggage is easy and worth the money savings.

We'll see what the load numbers are at the end of the month.... I'm betting your wrong. People are coming from all over the place for these flights.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Skybus is not going to go over very well with business travelers.. that is just the way it is.. so Skybus needs to go after it's real markets.. vacation leisure and mid-range pax places that only require one frequencies..

From GSO alone, the opportunities are endless..

GSO-FLL/RSW/LAS/MSY/CUN <-- leisure
GSO-PVD/ISP/GYY/RNO/MYR <-- mid-range pax destinations

But that is just my opinion..

And btw.. Mark is an Ameri-Swed (IKEA is the BESTEST)... just means he got the best of 2 worlds.. so let's not be demogra-bashing in here..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

I flew skybus today... CMH-GSO..arrived a little late at 6:05pm. We didn't stop in richmond. Not sure what this flight is.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineTbolt1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting Qwerty (Thread starter):
Any ideas why?

Pilot crews getting checked out by the FAA....and that is the final answer



"You can be my wingman anytime."
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting Tbolt1 (Reply 13):
Pilot crews getting checked out by the FAA....and that is the final answer

Thanks for the answer, but what does that mean? Checked for what?



a.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 12):
I flew skybus today... CMH-GSO..arrived a little late at 6:05pm. We didn't stop in richmond. Not sure what this flight is.

There was an FAA official jumpseating on my non-stop CMH-GSO flight this evening.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineTbolt1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

I don't know what the checks were for....I only know the planes only had different sets of crew members on board as well as an FAA inspector. The flight went from CMH-RIC-GSO-CMH
At each stop they changed crews around.
So I don't know what they checks were for, but the crew swapping and FAA inspector are accurate.



"You can be my wingman anytime."
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3015 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
My guess: some schedule/plane issues, so they merged the CMH-RIC and CMH-GSO flights into one, since the loads on both routes probably are low, and they could combine both into one plane.

I flew GSO-CMH on sunday night, and CMH-GSO this evening.. both flights were over 80% full. I would say over half the plane bought drinks and snacks.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Also, I realize you don't like why guess as to why the flight was operated like it or not

This is why A.net has gone down hill "I am guessing", or "I heard from my Mom's sister's ex-boyfriends cousin that...."

I mean why even post something if it's not factual? It just confuses people and has a tendancy to become "fact" because it was posted here.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
CMH-PSM.

at least you quit slamming BLI since that route is running extremely full now witht he next 2 months average one way fare for 240 dollars.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 12):
flew skybus today... CMH-GSO..arrived a little late at 6:05pm. We didn't stop in richmond. Not sure what this flight is.



Quoting Tbolt1 (Reply 13):
Pilot crews getting checked out by the FAA....and that is the final answer

Thanks for some FACTS guys  Smile


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 18):
This is why A.net has gone down hill "I am guessing", or "I heard from my Mom's sister's ex-boyfriends cousin that...."

I mean why even post something if it's not factual? It just confuses people and has a tendancy to become "fact" because it was posted here.

I clearly made out that I was guessing. And based on what Tbolt1 said, I was correct in guessing the routing, and he still hasn't told us if it had revenue passengers or not. If it did, my guessing was pretty spot on. They were able to merge the two flights and do some FAA crew testing in one.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 18):
at least you quit slamming BLI since that route is running extremely full now witht he next 2 months average one way fare for 240 dollars.

I didn't slam BLI. I just slammed Skybus' marketing of BLI.

[Edited 2007-06-13 03:56:26]


a.
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
and he still hasn't told us if it had revenue passengers or not.

Since RIC-GSO has not been approved for Revenue service there could not have been revenue pax on board per the FAR121 rules.


You are correct on BLI, my apologies.


User currently offlineMnevans From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

There were people who found "hidden flights" on the route map on Skybus.com and I believe one of them was RIC-GSO, please correct me if I'm wrong.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):
Since RIC-GSO has not been approved for Revenue service there could not have been revenue pax on board per the FAR121 rules.

I don't get it. There are no rules regulating domestic service. We are not regulated. Any domestic airline can fly any domestic city pair. They do not have to be approved for revenue service on anything. Unless Skybus is under some special rules because they are a new carrier (which is possible, I have no idea), they could easily carry revenue traffic between any two cities in the lower-48 and (IIRC) Puerto Rico. They would need to apply for flag carrier status to service Alaska and Hawai'i.

None the less, Tbolt has made clear there was no revenue traffic.

[Edited 2007-06-13 04:13:13]


a.
User currently offlineTbolt1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
I clearly made out that I was guessing. And based on what Tbolt1 said, I was correct in guessing the routing, and he still hasn't told us if it had revenue passengers or not. If it did, my guessing was pretty spot on. They were able to merge the two flights and do some FAA crew testing in one.

I thought I stated it, but there were no pax....just multiple pilot crews and 3 FAs and the FAA inspector.



"You can be my wingman anytime."
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):

A part 121 air carrier may not carry passengers for revenue air service unless:


Federal Aviation Regulation



Sec. 121.93

Part 121 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart E--Approval of Routes: Domestic and Flag Operations

Sec. 121.93

Route requirements: General.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting domestic or flag operations seeking a route approval must show--
(1) That it is able to conduct satisfactorily scheduled operations between each regular, provisional, and refueling airport over that route or route segment; and
(2) That the facilities and services required by Secs. 121.97 through 121.107 are available and adequate for the proposed operation.
The Administrator approves a route outside of controlled airspace if he determines that traffic density is such that an adequate level of safety can be assured.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not require actual flight over a route or route segment if the certificate holder shows that the flight is not essential to safety, considering the availability and adequacy of airports, lighting, maintenance, communication, navigation, fueling, ground, and airplane radio facilities, and the ability of the personnel to be used in the proposed operation.

Amdt. 121-253, Eff. 2/26/96

Until this is demonstrated, no Part 121 can just start flying to a city.


25 CitrusCritter : So in other words, the G4 model?
26 MAH4546 : Of course they can. Read Part (b): (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not require actual flight over a route or route segment if the certificate
27 Itsnotfinals : you're wrong on that assumption. they cannot demonstrate (b) because they do not have a long enough history as an operating carrier. Federal Aviation
28 Qwerty : Thanks for those who cleared up my guess. Since we have deviated into a new thread voting on the success of Skybus, I'll add my two cents. I think the
29 Gregarious119 : The statement "America West couldn't do it with CRJs" says nothing about CMH's ability as a hub or how dumpy it is. What else do you want? 2 parallel
30 Itsnotfinals : But they did do it with Airbuses. They had a profitable hub in CMH for over 5 years, when they went down to high cost CRJs that is when the hub fell
31 Qwerty : DAY has 2 longer parallel runways than CMH plus an extra. Very modern, well-laid-out terminal. Easy access to I-70. Plenty of parking, short and long
32 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : I grew up in DAY and it's a nice airport but CMH is in a different league. (5 on airport hotels, covered parking, closer to the city etc.) Although o
33 Qwerty : Sure CMH is marginally better amenity-wise, but it's still a dump of a place to hub a startup, point-to-point airline. (Central) Ohio can't support th
34 MAH4546 : If it was profitable with Airbus aircraft, then why downgrade to CRJs in the first place? Answer: It wasn't profitable with Airbus aircraft (with or
35 Post contains images Gregarious119 : If someone wanted to find some investors, it just may My opinion is that CMH looks more up-to-date than DAY, but they are both very convenient to get
36 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : Again, no facts too funny! There was a huge post which I'll dig up for you about the profits HP had with the CMH hub until a strategy change occured.
37 MAH4546 : Again, oppurtunity costs, too funny! Though that still doesn't have anything to do with this. Columbus is a poor market for a hub, but Skybus isn't r
38 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : Your argument of "opportunity cost" has little to do with the dynamics of a CMH hub, but it is interesting to see your agreement now that CMH can sup
39 MAH4546 : Did I ever argue otherwise? No. I suggest you learn some basic economics and learn about oppurtunity costs.
40 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : ummm....yes several time you said there was no demand for non-stops from CMH or else they would already be operating. Opportunity cost is: "1. The co
41 MAH4546 : No, I have not. I've argued the stupidity of markets like Richmond, Greensboro, and Porstmouth, not the O&D to markets like Ft. Lauderdale and Burbna
42 Ejmmsu : The four skybus flights I have taken between CMH and GSO have all been about 80% Full.
43 MAH4546 : Not doubting you. Let's see how full they are in September when air travel in general down, people realize more about how Skybus operates (it isn't f
44 Itsnotfinals : Well apparently you might want a refresher , and how do you know I don't have a Finance degree from a "better" institution? I would imagine since you
45 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : the quote was in answer to another poster and My discussion about non-stop flights to the Bay area and non-stops in general from CMH Post 55 Skybus Ge
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