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Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable  
User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9613 times:

Quote:
PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is confident it can meet its goal to roll its first 787 "Dreamliner" jet off the production line on July 8, the U.S. plane maker's chief executive said in a newspaper interview published on Friday.

"We are working intensively to respect this timetable and are managing to respect the constraints we set ourselves, notably on the weight of the aircraft. We are confident we will get there," Boeing CEO James McNerney told France's Le Monde ahead of the Paris airshow next week.

McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1574422120070615

Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.  

[Edited 2007-06-15 14:07:44]

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.

This removes any doubt.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9540 times:
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We should all remember that, to all reports, Section 43 mated fine with Section 44, which mated fine with Section 46, itself mating fine with Section 47 which itself mated fine with Section 48. The only known issue was mating Sections 41 and 43 and while it has been said the problem was with Section 43, it appears it was only with the forward part since if the entire barrel was "out of round", it should not have mated with Section 44, either.

So perhaps this really was just a case of Kawasaki not properly stuffing the front of the barrel and not an indication that Boeing's entire process is flawed and therefore Mr. McNerney's confidence may not be just hubris or "whistling past the graveyard"?


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

There are those who are waiting for Boeing to flub this project. One of whom I suspect is John Leahy.  Wink

I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9472 times:

It would be far more reassuring to hear confirmation the production of the subsequent planes will be according to plan as well, given the reports on just how intense the manual rework has been on the first plane. Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule... the time table for later models isn't likely having much margin for error left, so it would be good to have official confirmation and guarantees for Boeing they have the entire production process fully under control... So far there still seems to be a problem with quality assessment at some suppliers, or they should have spotted section 43 was way out of tolerances well before shipping it to the FAL.

User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.

This removes any doubt.

hehe, funny line, Keesje.  

By the way, i was being slightly sarcastic myself...  

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.

Absolutely. I think airlines are a lot more cautios when ordering newly developed planes now after the difficulties Airbus had with the SuperJumbo.

[Edited 2007-06-15 14:30:51]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9416 times:

Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 5):
Absolutely. I think airlines are a lot more cautios when ordering newly developed planes now after the difficulties Airbus had with the SuperJumbo.

Yeah they wold be nervous about ordering newly developed planes from Airbus but Boeing doesn't have that problem with their new development and it certainly hasn't held back the flood of orders for the 787.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9333 times:

I think Boeing will score a PR coup only when it DELIVERS a 787 to an airline. The 'roll-out' and 'first-flight' dates are totally meaningless if the delivery dates are missed. Exhibit A is Airbus. Indeed, the first flight of the A380 was a milestone, to be sure. But it receded into the background awfully fast once the whole program started to slip.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9157 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9321 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.

 checkmark 

I agree, they have come out time and time again to say things are running on schedule and to spec whenever even an element of doubt gets raised in the press.

Wish them every success.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9164 times:

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.

In other words, this means that Boeing will increase the B787 production beginning 2009 to adapt itself to the order received, to ensure that delivery times will remain competitive with the ones of Airbus. "Cruising speed" means that initial production glitches are ironed out, therefore a production increase in the first year after EIS, as stated by several
A-netters, would be not a good idea !!

Quoting from the article:

Quote:
McNerney said, however, he expected Airbus to emerge stronger from its current problems, as it restructures to cope with a strong euro.
]"Airbus has its problems but we also had ours. I already see signs that their situation is improving," he was quoted as saying.

This is a nice touch to show that Boeing is not gloating !!

aminobwana


User currently offlineAdh214 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
the time table for later models isn't likely having much margin for error left, so it would be good to have official confirmation and guarantees for Boeing they have the entire production process fully under control

Yes, I would also feel much more confident if Boeing's CEO announced there would never be a problem with the 787 production plan. However that is not reasonable. I doubt Boeing has a crystal ball that can tell them exactly where future problems will occur. At this point, it is a wait and see game. However, all of the speculation about the July 8th date can be put to rest for now.

Remember Boeing's CEO can be held criminally accountable for lying to the public and the shareholders. Thus, I doubt he would be making these statements unless he was very sure they were accurate at the time he made them. Certainly over the next few weeks things could change but that is true of any project from building airplanes to planning a wedding.

Andrew


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9043 times:

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 10):
However, all of the speculation about the July 8th date can be put to rest for now.

There was never any speculation about the date of the roll out. The rumours have been about the date of the first deliveries, next year.

But actually it looks good for Boeing.

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9008 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
It would be far more reassuring to hear confirmation the production of the subsequent planes will be according to plan as well

What do you call this:?

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.

This is the original ramp up and production schedule. Boeing hasn't changed it. They also are on track for roll out. Since comparing the A380 and the 787 (because it happened to A380 and Airbus, it will happen to 787 and Boeing) iirc, the A380 was late compared to the plan three years earlier on roll out.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

 Confused

Of course that's according to schedule, or it would not be happening on 7-8-07. Your making a lot of assumptions about Boeing's internal project plans, but the rollout and scheduled delivery are still occurring almost exactly when Boeing said they would. Boeing also says that they are on track to be running at full speed in 2009.

Of course you plan for unplanned for events. I run projects orders of magnitude smaller then the 787 effort, and I build in that same buffer time. And I've never not needed it.

You are trying awfully hard to find a dark storm cloud because of a silver lining.

What Boeing is trying is audacious and radical. So far all indications are that it is working, and working well. Does that mean they are in the clear?


User currently offlineThebry From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8630 times:
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Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 9):
Quoting from the article:

Quote: McNerney said, however, he expected Airbus to emerge stronger from its current problems, as it restructures to cope with a strong euro.
]"Airbus has its problems but we also had ours. I already see signs that their situation is improving," he was quoted as saying.
This is a nice touch to show that Boeing is not gloating !!

Bingo. That part of the article underscores something I think is important -- Airbus and Boeing are a duopoly and both make fantastic aircraft. The difference between the management teams becomes clear when you read the history of Leahy comments vs. those of Boeing's leadership. Boeing's leadership frequently outclasses that of Airbus (very few [if any at all] snyde remarks or cheap shots about product).


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8624 times:

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is confident it can meet its goal to roll its first 787 "Dreamliner" jet off the production line on July 8, the U.S. plane maker's chief executive said in a newspaper interview published on Friday.

Nobody had any doubt that the roll out will take place as planned.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8624 times:
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Well Leahy is a marketer, so it's his job to disparage the competitor. The Two Randy's are equally guilty of doing it, they just don't do it quite as often.

The more senior executives within both Boeing and Airbus are much more consistent in "taking the high road" because they're not marketers and as such reporters and investors don't look to them to be calling attention to their competitor's failures, but instead remain focussed on ensuring that their own failures are discovered, corrected, and prevented going forward.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8481 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

So, in other words, it's, uh ... on schedule.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8447 times:
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I know with all the grief heaped on the A380's delay, I can understand the desire to get some revenge on the 787 as she starts to encounter some issues, but it still strike me as premature to assume that she will not roll out on schedule or that she will be not take to the skies until late in 2007 based on what is leaking out or being officially acknowledged by Boeing.

User currently offlineBigJKU From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 883 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8441 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

Like any major program, at least those run by people with brains for this type of planning, there was wiggle room. I can see this sort of junk being applied to the Apollo program. Well sure they landed on the moon in the timeframe set by Kennedy but it did not go perfectly according to plan but the plan built in time for problems and they still landed on time but really they didn't because they planned to have problems in their planning even though it might be considered a problem that they planned for problems as part of their long term problem solving planning process.

Simple right?


User currently offlineBR076 From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 12):
Of course that's according to schedule, or it would not be happening on 7-8-07.

7 of August? I thought the roll out was supposed to be in July , so it's a delay after all an everything is ok again  Smile



ú
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8386 times:

...no -it's 8 of July,since in the USA dates are written differently than in the rest of the World..


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

As the 787 program bottlenecks to first flight, we will know if the program was managed well or not. I hope Boeing did like they did with the 777 and ran all the airplane systems in the lab, together as one, before installing on the first airplane. This goes a long way in getting the first airplane ready for flight.

Cheers


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8228 times:
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Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 21):
I hope Boeing did like they did with the 777 and ran all the airplane systems in the lab, together as one, before installing on the first airplane. This goes a long way in getting the first airplane ready for flight.

Boeing has indeed been performing extensive testing on an "iron bird" 787.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8138 times:

Quoting BR076 (Reply 19):
7 of August? I thought the roll out was supposed to be in July , so it's a delay after all an everything is ok again  

Actually, by European dating the 787 roll-out will be a month early.  Smile


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4881 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8096 times:

Per FI, Boeing is aiming for between late August and end September first flight.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ptember-for-787s-first-flight.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Post contains images Keesje : I think roll out & first flight of A380 went pretty well, the wiring issue came up later. Lets hope the 787 production ramp up goes smoothly.
26 Bringiton : Quite true , however i dont think there would be any serious concerns when it comes to wiring with the 787 . The areas to watch out for would be Weig
27 Post contains images BR076 : nope , month later , but never mind at least you yanks drive on the right side of the road
28 Clickhappy : LOL, I think you Europeans are confused. Using the American style of dates(month/day/year), rollout is set for 7/8/7 or July 8 2007 If we used the Eur
29 Mham001 : Now there's some PC spin. The two Randys "equally guilty, just not as often". Not exactly equal then are they? And while Baesler could be judged for
30 Rheinbote : I haven't seen much reported on section fit other than the dreaded S41/S43 mismatch case. Can you point me to some sources?
31 Stitch : Well it appears that Sections 46 and 47 have yet to be joined, but as I understand it, Sections 44 and 46 are joined at Alenia prior to delivery, sam
32 T773ER : Isn't Leahy the COO of Airbus? I'm not sure, but most people consider a COO to be an executive.[Edited 2007-06-15 22:04:34]
33 Keesje : What everybody wants to know but doesn´t dare to ask: Is the 787 first flight silently being delayed from august to september?
34 Clickhappy : Pretty obvious, isn't it?
35 Osiris30 : ?? Pardon me, but hasn't the plan always been AS EARLY AS late August.. to some point in the future (a 1 month window would seem reasonable). I'm not
36 Clickhappy : The original plan was for late August. Then it was late August - early September. Now it is September - with Boeing on the record as saying a flight u
37 Osiris30 : According to today's FI article they are shooting late aug-end sept. Sounds like they are still shooting for late August, not sure where you got 'now
38 Post contains images Wolbo : That's probably why he is saying nothing solid in his statement. Basically all he says is he's 'confident' so if tomorrow the wings suddenly fall off
39 TeamAmerica : A delay of only one week would move the date from August to September. Question: what is the typical time from rollout to first flight? What was the
40 Clickhappy : The first 777-200 entered final body join on 15Dec 1993. It rolled out on 9April 2004. Most likely this was a "complete" aircraft as it would not have
41 Post contains images Stitch : As long as NH takes delivery of a good bird by May 2008, I'm okay and I am sure so is Boeing.
42 T773ER : I'm confused.
43 Brendows : 767-200 Rollout: 08/04/81 First flight 09/26/81 t 777-200 Rollout: 04/09/94 First flight: 06/12/94
44 Ikramerica : This is not the 777. It's designed from day 1 as a different process.
45 Clickhappy : The term rollout does not mean anything, in the context of this conversation. We have no ideawhat condition the various 777 test planes were in when t
46 Clickhappy : An excellent observation!
47 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Thanks! It appears that roughly two months from rollout to first flight is typical for Boeing. If the 787 follows the 777 experience, the first fligh
48 ER757 : Exactly - when the 1st frame rolls out and makes its 1st flight are irrelevant when it comes to production schedules and delivery dates to airlines.
49 Ikramerica : Well, you bring up the 777 to try to "prove" your claims, so I was only pointing out that the 787 was designed to be built differently from day one.
50 Clickhappy : Your biggest mistake is assuming I am trying to "prove" anything. I was simply quoting historical data of the last widebody family introduced by Boei
51 Aminobwana : The biggest challenge of the B787 is its structure (as so much discussed in the Forum). I assume that what Boeing wants to show with the roll out, as
52 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Indeed. We should all realize that the 07-08-07 rollout date is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Given that this is a once in a lifetime opport
53 SEPilot : There is more that is different in the construction of the 787 than on any other new airliner since the Boeing 247. To even think that everything is
54 Post contains links Douwd20 : From the WSJ today: An even bigger test comes this fall, when Boeing promises to get the Dreamliner airborne. Nailing down the exact date of any new
55 Post contains images Glideslope : Agreed. 2nd line in 2009 once orders are over 1,000.
56 Post contains images AirFrnt : How about if I dare to answer? Go back to the press conferences in 2005. There was a line in there verbatim about the plane flying somewhere near the
57 Shenzhen : Who is to say that the process of installing all the different systems, wiring, tubes and avionics is all that different then the 777 (other then bein
58 Ikramerica : Only in your mind. It's always been a floating date. It's called project planning. It's an art. Nobody who's never done it understands it. They hear
59 Aminobwana : By too much openness and also press snooping Boeing has allowed to be put on the defensive each time there is a snag which could delay an intermediat
60 Post contains images NAV20 : One of the first rules of PR is that, if there IS a problem, you announce it yourself if at all possible. That way you get to announce both the probl
61 Aminobwana : I am sorry, NAV20. My English has failed me and therefore what you write, with which I totally agree, does not address what I wanted to say !! Under
62 Rheinbote : Indeed. The 777 is a bad example, anyway, because Boeing admitted that at $12bn, 777 development was twice as expensive than originally forseen.
63 NAV20 : Still have to disagree a little, Aminobwana. In PR there is no action without a reaction. In any statement to the press you have to weigh the likely
64 Post contains images Glideslope : I agree whole heartedly. Looking like one of the greatest achievement in aviation history so far. Let's hope it stays. My hat is especially off to th
65 Post contains images Glideslope : Considering Airbus used 2 different versions of software with the 380, I doubt Boeing is worried since everyone has been on V5 since day 1.
66 Aminobwana : I have only a disagreement regarding the degree.When the press ask well in advance (lets say End 2006), the effect is the same if the answer if is "3
67 Keesje : It could look like you are comparing the first flight date of the 787 with the 2 year late delivery of some (not first) A380.. However I do not blame
68 NAV20 : Keesje, is it possible that we are of the same mind? That a two-year delay in introducing a new model is the exception, not the rule? And that theref
69 Stitch : I think it was more that the comment (which was made by the WSJ reporter, not Douwd20) was noting that issues that crop up early in the assembly prog
70 Post contains links Beaucaire : http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/73556.html not a big thing- nearly on track..
71 Sq212 : The first flight of Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner will be delayed to mid-September, Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief Scott Carson said in Paris on Sund
72 Bringiton : Hmmmm .. 2 weeks isnt much of a delay and shouldnt really effect EIS in a great way unless there is a bigger underlying problem that boeing hasnt made
73 Ikramerica : Airbus was never a non-government company, so it's not really a matter of "progressively" happening. It entered a phase of pseudo privatization, wher
74 BEG2IAH : Guys, Is there gonna be any live broadcast of the roll out? I have to see that! BEG2IAH
75 Ikramerica : Yes. There's a thread with all the information, including the channels on directv and dish network. I don't know the thread name, but if you do a sear
76 Post contains links SirOmega : If you dont have Dish or DirecTV it is also supposed to be webcast as well. And FWIW, 7/8/7 is on a Sunday, three weeks from today. Edit: http://www.a
77 Stitch : I imagine local SEA tv will carry it, as well. I know the 777 first flight was carried on our local ABC affiliate (KOMO).
78 BEG2IAH : Thanks guys. I wasn't precise when I asked. I definitely thought about web based broadcast. This is what I got from another thread: " target=_blank>ww
79 Keesje : Read between the lines folks..
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