JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14101 times:
AIRSHOW-Emirates boss says Airbus closing in on Boeing 787
LE BOURGET, France, June 18 (Reuters) - Emirates Airlines [EMAIR.UL] said it would decide on an order worth as much as $20 billion for mid-sized planes by October and that the design of the Airbus A350 XWB was closing in on Boeing's 787 Dreamliner. Emirates President Tim Clark told reporters on Monday he was ruling out ruling out splitting the order for as many as 100 planes between the two manufacturers.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13923 times:
Some interesting points from that article ....
"Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) has accused Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile , Research) of touting an incomplete design to airlines in its bid to draw attention from the hot-selling 787."
Maybe this is what got Gallois upset ?
Also
"Clark said he believed Boeing's barrel idea was the plane of the future but would not be a deal-breaker for the next order.
"It doesn't make much difference to me. We'll look at the aircraft for the longevity we need, which is 15 years maximum."
Which seems to me makes sense ...
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13830 times:
All this positive talk of late of Mr Clark with respect to the a350 makes me think that they will go for the a350. But then again, with EK you never know... Like who expected an order for even more a380's?
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13562 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): They are the #1 GP7000 customer with 200 on order for their A380's, today PW starts talking about the XWB..
I dont think the GP7000 can cut the mustard on the A350XWB without a serious revamp. As it stands, the GP7200 has a SFP in the region o 4-5% higher than the engines on the 787. With the Trent XWB offering a further 2% SFC improvement over the 787s engines, the GP7000 will need a SFC improvement in the region of 7%.
Joni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13465 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 1): "Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) has accused Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile , Research) of touting an incomplete design to airlines in its bid to draw attention from the hot-selling 787."
Also from the article:
Quote: "We know as much as we need to know about the plane (the A350) to contribute to the decision process,Clark said."
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13418 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 1): "It doesn't make much difference to me. We'll look at the aircraft for the longevity we need, which is 15 years maximum."
So he is planning to use them for 15 years and scrap them? I would hope not. However, given the money he has to play with perhaps resale value is not important. It is, however, to many airlines.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13350 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 8): Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
They are the #1 GP7000 customer with 200 on order for their A380's, today PW starts talking about the XWB..
I dont think the GP7000 can cut the mustard on the A350XWB without a serious revamp. As it stands, the GP7200 has a SFP in the region o 4-5% higher than the engines on the 787. With the Trent XWB offering a further 2% SFC improvement over the 787s engines, the GP7000 will need a SFC improvement in the region of 7%.
These are numbers I have seen elsewhere, and they appear to be accurate, which means the GP7000 certainly needs a major upgrade. The 7% is a major issue with fuel going for about $90 a barrel (at the refinery). A barrel is 42 US gallons in this case or about 158 liters.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13294 times:
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7): EK had previously stated they would order (I think it was) "12 - 15 additional A380s". In the last few weeks they have purchased 12 (4 + 8).
Quoting WINGS (Reply 4): I just did not expect it today
Quoting EI321 (Reply 3): Quite a few people actually!
Oops, I guess I was one of the few who got caught by surprise by this order!!
Thats before we even consider the legislative issues surrounding the Engine Alliance option. I think Pratt should go it alone (if they can), and try to get on the 787 at the same time, although this may not be a very realistic idea. At the rate things are going today, we could see A350 engine sales in Paris this week alone. If GE snooze, they'll loose.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13173 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 13): Thats before we even consider the legislative issues surrounding the Engine Alliance option. I think Pratt should go it alone (if they can), and try to get on the 787 at the same time, although this may not be a very realistic idea. At the rate things are going today, we could see A350 engine sales in Paris this week alone. If GE snooze, they'll loose.
Agreed. The Engine Alliance isn't looking so good nowadays, is it? As for the A350 sales, Leahy promised 200, which I am sure he has in the bag. And it is it the A350-10 only that GE is not playing, so how many A350-10s were sold? I don't have an up-to-the-minute count, but I believe it is none. I am sure there will be an order or two, but how many total A350-10s ? Is that a market for GE?
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13173 times:
A large EK order of A-350's would increase the co-dependance of Airbus on EK, so I dont see it as a positive for either company. However, an A-350 order is likely to be the result.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12901 times:
Quoting Poitin (Reply 10): So he is planning to use them for 15 years and scrap them? I would hope not. However, given the money he has to play with perhaps resale value is not important. It is, however, to many airlines.
My money is EK will launch a leasing arm in the next five to ten years as they take delivery of their remaining 77Ws, 77Ls, A388s, and either 787s or A350s and start releasing their 772As, 772ERs, 773As, A330s, and A340s.
Quoting EI321 (Reply 13): I think Pratt should go it alone (if they can), and try to get on the 787 at the same time, although this may not be a very realistic idea. At the rate things are going today, we could see A350 engine sales in Paris this week alone. If GE snooze, they'll loose.
Boeing shot down whatever new technology Pratt was pushing for the 787 (I can only assume it's the GTF). I still believe GE will support the A350 and will publicly announce that support within 12-24 months (and privately to customers within 6-18). Airbus may very well want Pratt just to make the A350 more palatable then the 787 to large Pratt operators like UA when it comes time to replace 767s and 777s and even 747s.
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 15): A large EK order of A-350's would increase the co-dependance of Airbus on EK, so I dont see it as a positive for either company. However, an A-350 order is likely to be the result.
If EK takes delivery of all the planes they have on order with Airbus, then what does Airbus care? They're a huge 77W customer, adding more all the time, and yet I don't see anyone noting how "co-dependent" Boeing is on EK to keep that program alive in the face of the A350.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12874 times:
Quoting Poitin (Reply 14): And it is it the A350-10 only that GE is not playing, so how many A350-10s were sold? I don't have an up-to-the-minute count, but I believe it is none.
CygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12686 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 16): If EK takes delivery of all the planes they have on order with Airbus, then what does Airbus care?
In fact, they don't even need to take delivery. All they need is the deposit. I'm sure the deposits are close to 10% of the contract value, which is just about what the margin runs at. So, if EK go belly-up, Airbus has the margin in their pockets, and they don't have to build the plane They can then sell the slots to someone else
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9135 posts, RR: 96 Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12455 times:
Quoting Poitin (Reply 14): And it is it the A350-10 only that GE is not playing
As I understand it, GE is not currently playing on ANY A350XWB's.
You might recall the furore when JL essentially said the GEnx was a "generation" too old for the -XWB, and wanted to see "more" from GE......
Translation:
We want a better deal from Boeing, and when we get it, we'll publicly announce that the 787 is still the airplane of the future, while awaiting a counter deal from Airbus.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 16): My money is EK will launch a leasing arm in the next five to ten years as they take delivery of their remaining 77Ws, 77Ls, A388s, and either 787s or A350s and start releasing their 772As, 772ERs, 773As, A330s, and A340s.
That's exactly what I was thinking
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
Oroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11050 times:
Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 20): Translation:
We want a better deal from Boeing, and when we get it, we'll publicly announce that the 787 is still the airplane of the future, while awaiting a counter deal from Airbus.
Khobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10663 times:
Quoting Joni (Reply 9): Quote:
"We know as much as we need to know about the plane (the A350) to contribute to the decision process,Clark said."
EK has already said they don't have the seat mile costs or other technical specs, so this leaves what contribution to the decision process? Hmmm...
And didn't Clark recently state that Airbus had closed the gap? Now he's saying Airbus is closing in? Hmmm...
JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10358 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 23): EI321 From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3889 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted Mon Jun 18 2007 14:43:21 your local time (2 minutes 59 secs ago) and read 95 times:
Quoting Khobar (Reply 22):
Khobar
So the bottom line is? They dont want A350's? They really want 787's? Something sinister is going on behind the scenes?
This is exactly the same thing US Airways did to AIRBUS a month ago.
US Airways drops Airbus deal to take off with Boeing
The loss of the $3.7 billion contract with US Airways follows Virgin's switch from Airbus to BoeingDavid Robertson in Chicago
Airbus will receive another blow this week when US Airways ditches a $3.7 billion (£1.85 billion) order in favour of the aircraft manufacturer’s American rival, Boeing.
The Times understands that US Airways will announce an order for between 20 and 30 Boeing 787 Dreamliners within the next 48 hours. The deal will be worth between $3.2 billion and $4.9 billion at list prices.
25 Stitch: Right now, the A350 better fits EK's needs since it would serve as a replacement for their entire active fleet as well as their future fleet sans the
26 Khobar: How on earth do you go from what I said to what you're apparently reading? Wow... Oops, so much for the accuracy of that report.
27 EI321: But where are the quotes from USair in that article? It was just in accurate reoprting (unless the airline also makes a 787 order this week) The prob
28 JFK787NYC: No this article was leaked to get AIRBUS off their butts and quote a better deal to US Airways and I am sure it worked! They probably got scared lol
29 Khobar: If you know what a question mark looks like and is used for, then what are you needing help with? Was the question mark I used when asking my questio
30 CygnusChicago: Wow, you are so insightful. Who would have thought, but both Boeing and Airbus get all their competitive intelligence from the general media. Heck, i
31 DfwRevolution: I think that's exactly what upset Gallois. Didn't he say as much when he responded that Boeing should stick to talking about their own aircraft? Or,
32 PC12Fan: With all due respect, they couldn't have gotten any farther away. From an enthusiast standpoint, I'm glad to see Airbus is getting their act together
33 Kaitak744: Honestly, I don't think Boeing cares if they win this order or not. The way I see it, is that there are two possible options: 1. Boeing gets Emirates
34 Sq212: Just Imagine if DL, AA and possibly UA add to the growing list of potential 787 buyers, Capacity increase is the only option left for Boeing. IMO EK
35 Azhobo: I think everyone is playing A like a fiddle, especially Clark. A is more desperate than B right NOW. But that could change with a few more 350 orders
36 Joni: When did they say that, and as we discussed in another thread, they may have been taking of some specific route that they weren't yet furnished with
37 EI321: Anybody who takes these kind of comments at face value is just being naive. Reverting to your original comment: No need for foggy suggestions, be up
38 Ikramerica: Bet the field. A no brainer. All these carriers will DEFINITELY take delivery of most of the 787s they order. EK, we still can't be sure. But beyond
39 Khobar: Nothing foggy in what I asked. Plain, simple English.
40 Danny: A credible Polish newspaper "Rzeczpospolita" publishes an interview with Tim Clark (source Polish only): http://www.rzeczpospolita.pl/gazeta/...070625
41 EI321: Im starting to get the feeling that a deal has already been done. I'll just have to take your word for it
42 Columba: Same answer that would be given by LH as well. Both airlines are more than likely to order the A350.
43 EI321: The reason I say it regarding the A350 is just going on the comments thst emerge from Clark on a weekly basis. LH have not really said that they pref
44 Danny: Lack of GE engines didn't stop QR and SQ. I don't think it would be a problem for EK as well especially if Trent XWB is really more efficient than GE
45 Columba: I am still hoping for LH ordering the 787 but the A350 offers them the chance to replace their A330/A343?A343 with the A350-900 and -1000. It seems f
46 Stitch: The 787 has won all the internal LH RFPs against the non-XWB A350, so I wouldn't write her out of the picture just yet. And EK is so big even if they
47 Jacobin777: ...EK has time and time again insisted they won't be a "one-carrier" company....yes they are getting B777's, etc..but in 10-15 years time, even those
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I would have thought that they would rather wait until the Dubai Air Show.
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They can then sell the slots to someone else 
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