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Randy's Blog - The Long Run  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5073 times:
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The newest entry for Randy Tinseth's blog is up, at http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

While discussing the Paris Air Show he makes a couple of excellent quotes - this one caught my eye:

But, a word to reporters and other observers this week: we don't consider it a battle -- because we ain't fighting on air show ground. An air show should be seen as a celebration of flight.

I also find this quote very poignant:

So keep in mind it's just one week out of 52. We'll stay focused on going the distance across those 52 weeks. And we'll find out -- in the long run.

Sometimes I feel these Airbus vs. Boeing posts on A.net are "a battle." Many of us our just aviation fans. We love airplanes. Both Airbus and Boeing are great companies. We should keep these thoughts in mind as we discuss the merits of one over the other.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
So keep in mind it's just one week out of 52. We'll stay focused on going the distance across those 52 weeks. And we'll find out -- in the long run.

To be honest, I'd of been somewhat suprised if B had come out with a load a new orders at Paris - they've already nearly sold a year's worth of production already this year!


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4993 times:
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Airbus has had a fantastic Monday and, so far, has handily outsold Boeing for the show. But Boeing had a 2 to 1 sales advantage coming into the show, so it's a case of Airbus catching up more then pulling ahead - at least for the moment.

I suppose one reason Boeing prefers their customers to "spread out" orders more then Airbus does is because Boeing needs to maintain "constant sales momentum" to keep their stock price stable. When it comes to stock price, US companies are judged quarter by quarter. So it is more important for Boeing to sell 200 planes a quarter every quarter then to sell 100 planes each in Q1, Q3 and Q4 and then sell 500 at an Air Show. Boeing's stock would jump in Q2, but it would fall in Q1, Q3 and Q4 because sales were slow in Q1 and sales "cratered" in Q3 and Q4 compared to Q2.

[Edited 2007-06-18 17:21:12]

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

If you read between the line in Randy´s Blog:

Dont get hysterical over the low sales from Boeing at this show, after all it´s one week out of 52...

Micke//  rotfl   santahat 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
Dont get hysterical over the low sales from Boeing at this show, after all it´s one week out of 52...

Well uh.. isn't he correct there.. I mean if Airbus sells 300 aircraft at the show and 100 for the rest of the year (made up numbers) it really doesn't matter that they sold 300 in a week does it? I mean after all it's less the 6 a week for the other 51 weeks to make up that 300 aircraft..

Airbus needed a good show, and it looks like they got it, which is good for them, but it's hardly cause for overly euphoric celebration. Similarly it's not the end of the world if they outsell Boeing this week. Even if it's 5 to 1.

It *is* only 1 week out of the entire year, and some of the orders Airbus is announcing today have been a LONG time in coming, so to attribute them all to this week would be a bit foolish, n'est pas? (Witness QR, US as two such examples of orders that have been pending for a LONG time).



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineCygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Many of us our just aviation fans. We love airplanes. Both Airbus and Boeing are great companies. We should keep these thoughts in mind as we discuss the merits of one over the other.

So true. I wish we were all so thoughtful when we made our posts!



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
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Micke - Nothing new there really, is there  Smile Airbus has always saved up orders for big shows. Boeing doesn't. Or, more to the point, can't.

The numbers that really matter are at year end. Which I think is something like 1March for Airbus  Big grin

All kidding aside, Airbus is having a great show, hopefully we will see some Boeing orders confirmed in the next couple of days. ILFC and QR would be nice campaigns to win...


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

He's merely saving face in advance. Putting in some ground work. This stuff is barely even worth putting up in the blog IMO.

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

It will be more interesting 2009 and 2010 and the sale of A350XWB and A320E, not for a week but 52 weeks  Wink

Micke//  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
Dont get hysterical over the low sales from Boeing at this show, after all it´s one week out of 52...

Here in America we have the Superbowl and declare the winner "World Champion" even though nobody else is playing. That same sort of hyperbole applies to Airbus at the big airshows. There's a joyful shower of Airbus orders and they are declared the winner...but who else is playing this game? smile 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 7):
He's merely saving face in advance.

Nearly every time there's a Boeing order announced, some Kool-Aid drinker for Airbus runs around yelling, "Oh yeah, well we'll see you at Paris, mate!" Okay, so Paris is here. There's absolutely nothing Boeing has to be ashamed about this week, especially as they're planning the 7/8/07 festivities.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4661 times:
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Whoever noted in another thread that "Airbus Aficionados would cheer" and "Boeing Boosters would fume" over the respective orders place sure was prescient so far... Big grin

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4636 times:
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That same sort of hyperbole applies to Airbus at the big airshows

I don't think Airbus has ever called themselves "World Champions" based on an airshows sales totals, have they?


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
If you read between the line in Randy´s Blog:

Dont get hysterical over the low sales from Boeing at this show, after all it´s one week out of 52...

Correct. And rightfully so. Airbus always sandbags orders for Paris and other shows. It is part of the PR mentality at Airbus, which has not really served them all that well over the last 2 years or so.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 6):
Micke - Nothing new there really, is there Airbus has always saved up orders for big shows. Boeing doesn't. Or, more to the point, can't.

The numbers that really matter are at year end. Which I think is something like 1March for Airbus

Thats absolutely right. Airbus has to demonstrate the viability of the A-350 program this year or it becomes a lame duck. Boeing has to report sales even if it runs contrary to customer wishes, hence the unidentified ones.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4504 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Nearly every time there's a Boeing order announced, some Kool-Aid drinker for Airbus runs around yelling, "Oh yeah, well we'll see you at Paris, mate!"

.......Your half way there. The true context your referring to is the response often given when airbus's 'lacklustre' A350s sales are pointed out by whoever and for whatever reason. This does not generally happen on foot of a Boeing announcement as you imply, rather it happens on foot of an allegation of poor A350 sales. And judging by todays orders, the 'wait untill paris' stance is being vindicated as we speak. It appears that Randy unknowingly concurred in advance with the opinion of the airbus Kool-Aid drinkers you refer to.

PS, what exactly is this kool-aid stuff often mentioned? It is similar to gatorade?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Whoever noted in another thread that "Airbus Aficionados would cheer" and "Boeing Boosters would fume" over the respective orders place sure was prescient so far...

That was just last night, and it was right on the money  Wink


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
PS, what exactly is this kool-aid stuff often mentioned? It is similar to gatorade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolaid

Quote:
In technology circles "drinking the Kool-Aid" is often used to describe the misguided or over-abundant enthusiasm someone has for a particular product or candidate and their capabilities.

Thus, an Airbus supporter will be accused of "drinking the Airbus Koolaid". However, the reverse is also true for the Boeing fanboyz.

All very silly really. yes 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
PS, what exactly is this kool-aid stuff often mentioned? It is similar to gatorade?

When people reference "kool aid" they are referencing the unfortunate events of the Jonestown Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

It is a bad taste (no pun intended!) reference to people drinking the grape Flavor Aid. Most people didn't drink it because they believed, they were forced to do so, at gun point. They had also been given the same drink many times as "practice," so many people thought it was just another exercise.

It has become an euphemism to describe people who blindly believe something, regardless of it is true or not.


User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 12):
I don't think Airbus has ever called themselves "World Champions" based on an airshows sales totals, have they?

I never said that. You're reading it too literally.  boggled 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

@Scbriml:

"Airbus supporters" and "boeing fanboyz"?

Interesting selection of wording there for commenting on the situation you were commenting on. As you said, very silly really.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineTak From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

I'm sorry but I think this is an inane blokg entry. A "don't worry we will have more orders later" entry. Keep it to yourself next time Randy. I love many airbus and boeing products, but hate stupid pr spin like this. I liked the last Randy better Big grin. Ciao everyone

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Suppose one of the 2 main global air shows was, say, ther SEATTLE air show, are you saying Boeing wouldn't sandbag orders to give the 'home team' a PR boost???


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10026 posts, RR: 96
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3907 times:
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Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
So keep in mind it's just one week out of 52. We'll stay focused on going the distance across those 52 weeks. And we'll find out -- in the long run.

Damn.
And I was SO looking forward to NAV20's downbeat conclusion that Boeing can be expected to achieve just 0% of widebody sales over the next 20 years, based on today's figures, and then only if they're lucky.....  Wink

Ah well......  biggrin 

Regards


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3851 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 21):
And I was SO looking forward to NAV20's downbeat conclusion that Boeing can be expected to achieve just 0% of widebody sales over the next 20 years, based on today's figures, and then only if they're lucky.....

 rotfl 

Exactly, at the current rate of orders*, Boeing can't expect to be in business much longer. wink 

*statement based on net sales of 18th June - Boeing 6, Airbus 310.

Current performance is no indicator of future performance. Sales may go down as well as up. Terms and conditions apply.


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Suppose one of the 2 main global air shows was, say, ther SEATTLE air show, are you saying Boeing wouldn't sandbag orders to give the 'home team' a PR boost???

Yes. Under US law it would be nearly impossible for Boeing to stockpile orders. This point has been covered in numerous UFO order threads.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 22):
Current performance is no indicator of future performance. Sales may go down as well as up. Terms and conditions apply.

Gotta love that small print! biggrin 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineWCS From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 255 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

Hi,

I'm totally off the A/B battle, but I found this blog entry somewhat cheap. The biggest contradiction for me stands in that quote:

"and with all of the exhibits, display aircraft, and flight demonstrations"

I would love to find Boeing there as a true enthusiast. With just one 777 on display and no demonstrations (civil aircraft), I have my doubts. Le Bourget, like most of aviation shows is driven by business and for business. To post such entry at day one looks strange for me.

Whatever Airbus will do this week --and I'm glad there are doing well- , Boeing is there with a solid, consistent range of product. They could be proud of that. Spare the cheap and go ahead.

Raphael



FLY SKYTEAM JETS
25 Post contains images Revelation : What I find interesting is how Airbus itself sets some sales targets for the show (e.g. 150 A350s, 300 total orders) then Leahy et al keeps talking ab
26 Post contains images Solnabo : Let´s hope to see 787 on display at Farnborough(?) Air Show next year, but it wont fly like any Boeing aircraft. I think it´s sad, very sad. Micke//
27 AirSpare : Drinking Kool-Aid can also be referred to Ken Kesey's book "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test", good reading. Maybe I'm just to old. I feel like I'm wat
28 Aither : Let's not forget these are the airlines deciding when the announcments should be done. It's good PR for an airline to place an order at the beginning
29 Post contains images SkyTaxi : Thank you Clickhappy. You're 100% correct.
30 Halls120 : Why? Why is it sooooo important to some Anetters that Boeing match Airbus orders this week? Is some sort of aviation prize awarded to the manufacture
31 DAYflyer : Thats the goal when you are trying to do the PR dance to the world. They need to demonstrate (very badly) that they are solving internal problems and
32 Poitin : Randy's point is it isn't what you sell in one week that matters, it what you sell in one year. For some reason Airbus has decided on the Air Show sa
33 EI321 : Airbus do have a different philopohsy, its not exactly a secret.
34 USAF336TFS : Well said Stitch. And it's also as simple as, Paris... Europe... It's Airbus' home turf. This is the week that they get to have their party. With the
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