Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, RR: 47 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3788 times:
I don't really see how this is news. GECAS is GE owned, so they order planes that have GE-engines. They're not going to be ordering from their own competitor, now are they? This is about as newsworthy as saying Boeing has no intention of buying the A350XWB...
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3770 times:
Isn't this akin to asking turkeys for their opinion on Christmas? Threats from ILFC are exactly what are needed to give GE a red hot cattle prod up the ass. How many A350 engine orders will GE have lost by the end of this week? 200? Luckily Airbus listened to these guys and eventually GE will have to sit up and listen too.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3771 times:
Quoting Legoguy (Reply 1): "I would say 'not yet' for the 787, I would say 'no' for the A350," said Hubschman. "No at this moment -- they don't have a GE engine."
Does GE offer non-GE aircraft when there is no GE-based competitor in that market space?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26686 posts, RR: 83 Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3771 times:
Just one more reason GE will make an engine for the A350 within the next 12-24 months (publicly or privately announced).
I know some people expect GE Aviation to just snap their fingers and build a new powerplant out of whole cloth as RR did, but then RR wasn't nearly as buried as GE is with the current demand for the GE90, GEnx and CFM-6 series. So I imagine RR had some more "free time" on their engineers hands to dedicate to the A350 as well as a desire to do it just to start winning back marketshare lost to GE.
The A350 gained some serious momentum today, and as it continues to do so, that will drive GE to join in. They're not smug enough to believe the 777 will fly forever nor that they alone will be able to power HGW 787 models.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3734 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5): Quoting Legoguy (Reply 1):
"I would say 'not yet' for the 787, I would say 'no' for the A350," said Hubschman. "No at this moment -- they don't have a GE engine."
Does GE offer non-GE aircraft when there is no GE-based competitor in that market space?
That would be difficult, since GE offer an engine option for just about every airliner in the market place, bar one.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26686 posts, RR: 83 Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5): Does GE offer non-GE aircraft when there is no GE-based competitor in that market space?
They offer them even when there is, since they may have an existing customer who desires a non-GE option on a follow-on order. However, for the majority of cases, GECAS leases planes with GE power.
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
GE better gets itself together and starts offering engines for the XWB otherwise they'll be out of that market. How many 777 with GE engines do they plan to sell when the XWB is available?
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6): They're not smug enough to believe the 777 will fly forever nor that they alone will be able to power HGW 787 models.
The point you are missing is GE being in an exclusive deal for at least some flavors of Y3. This news is about 5-7 years down the road, not "today."
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26686 posts, RR: 83 Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3668 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 9): How many 777 with GE engines do they plan to sell when the XWB is available?
Considering how well the A330 continues to sell even with the 787 on the cusp of EIS? I expect they intend to sell deep into the three-figures, if not the low four-figures, over the next decade.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3646 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 10): The point you are missing is GE being in an exclusive deal for at least some flavors of Y3. This news is about 5-7 years down the road, not "today."
Funny how Boeing downgraded their outlook for high capacity aircraft this week, no doubt, if/when Y3 appears, it will go up again....
GE are being silly here, the have the opportunity to be part of a 3000+ engine market on the XWB.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3610 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11): Considering how well the A330 continues to sell even with the 787 on the cusp of EIS?
That is a smaller plane, different market segment, at a different time. Many carriers need A330s now to expand or to replace 767s. Who says it'll be the same with the larger 777NG in 5-6 years?
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11): I expect they intend to sell deep into the three-figures, if not the low four-figures, over the next decade.
What? 1,000 additional 777s with GE engines in the next ten years? I don't think that is realistic.
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3434 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting Thorben (Reply 13): What? 1,000 additional 777s with GE engines in the next ten years? I don't think that is realistic.
The 777 has two engines per frame, so that cuts the number down to 500. Not including spares (minimal, but they count).
Brendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3411 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): GECAS is GE owned, so they order planes that have GE-engines. They're not going to be ordering from their own competitor, now are they?
They have actually ordered four RR-engined aircraft from Boeing during the years
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26686 posts, RR: 83 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3350 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 10): The point you are missing is GE being in an exclusive deal for at least some flavors of Y3. This news is about 5-7 years down the road, not "today."
As you know, I remain unconvinced of Boeing launching Y3 anytime soon.
Quoting Zeke (Reply 12): GE are being silly here, the have the opportunity to be part of a 3000+ engine market on the XWB.
And I fully expect them to commit to being part of that. There is more then just the HGW 777s for them. I believe they're powering a good chunk of all those A330 orders "Airbus Aficiandoes" are crowing about...
Quoting Thorben (Reply 13): That is a smaller plane, different market segment, at a different time. Many carriers need A330s now to expand or to replace 767s. Who says it'll be the same with the larger 777NG in 5-6 years?
The real question to ask, in my opinion, is how many A350-900Rs, A350-900Fs, and A350-1000s does Airbus expect to sell in ten years with Boeing themselves selling scores to hundreds of 77Ls, 77Fs and 77Ws now and over the next ten years thanks to being available now and the best choice in each category at the moment?
Quoting Thorben (Reply 13): What? 1,000 additional 777s with GE engines in the next ten years? I don't think that is realistic.
Apologies. I misread your statement, and was quoting 777 engines, not 777 frames. I would not be surprised one bit to see Boeing sell 200-400 combined 77Ls, 77Fs, and 77Ws between now and 2015. Add in a single spare for each, and you're looking at a minimum of 600-1200 engines. Add in two, and that is 800-1600. Plus any additional 772ER sales Boeing and GE might be able to land.
BA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8259 posts, RR: 56 Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3081 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): I don't really see how this is news. GECAS is GE owned, so they order planes that have GE-engines. They're not going to be ordering from their own competitor, now are they? This is about as newsworthy as saying Boeing has no intention of buying the A350XWB...
- Agreed.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6): The A350 gained some serious momentum today, and as it continues to do so, that will drive GE to join in. They're not smug enough to believe the 777 will fly forever nor that they alone will be able to power HGW 787 models.
- I think GE will come to the A350 party, just a matter of time.
Not surprising. GE's betting on the GE-90-xxx and GEnx horses... for now... They want to maximize the return on the investment. IF I had to wear the shoes of the GE management people, I would do just that. But the GE folks, are not fools, and they can foresee the aircraft market evolution. They will adapt! Stay tuned.
As for the A350XWB, the GE bean counters may seem to be dormant, right now... but they're not that asleep. They will not let RR, or any other engine manufacturer, seize the whole widebody market. The 777 cash cow, was born in the 90's...
A5XX
[Edited 2007-06-19 01:27:36]
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2859 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): I don't really see how this is news. GECAS is GE owned, so they order planes that have GE-engines. They're not going to be ordering from their own competitor, now are they? This is about as newsworthy as saying Boeing has no intention of buying the A350XWB...
It's just a reminder to Airbus that they have more sway than simply in the engine business.
Quoting Thorben (Reply 9): GE better gets itself together and starts offering engines for the XWB otherwise they'll be out of that market. How many 777 with GE engines do they plan to sell when the XWB is available?
Quoting Zeke (Reply 12): GE are being silly here, the have the opportunity to be part of a 3000+ engine market on the XWB.
I don't think there will be a 3000+ engine market on the XWB for aircraft powered by a single generation of engines. The XWB family being composed of larger models will have a lower sales volume. The aircraft volume for the entire family will likely be around 1000 aircraft without a major revision that includes new engines. That volume number will be biased towards the smaller aircraft (presuming that those models are competitive with the corresponding Boeing model). GE apparently is willing to provide an engine for those models based on GEnx but, Airbus is trying to force them to provide a new engine for the entire family and to do so many years in advance of EIS. They may not believe there is enough of a market for two vendors for the largest aircraft models, just like for the current generation. And if there is a competing model from Boeing that they participate on, that will further dilute the ROI for those large engines. They have done well focusing on a single family (777LR) and investing resources completely on that. Perhaps they want to replicate their curent success in the 350pax space with whatever Boeing offers to succeed the 773ER.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
MotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2749 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2710 times:
Well GE had better hurry up with an A350 engine option or they'll be giving a lot of business away to both other leasing companies as well as engine manufacturers.
EA (the P&W and GE Engine Alliance) would be the obvious back door entry to the market without upsetting the 787 apple cart.
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9135 posts, RR: 96 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2556 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 19): The aircraft volume for the entire family will likely be around 1000 aircraft without a major revision that includes new engines.
If EK goes A350, they could well have over 350 of that "1000" by the end of this year..........
Regards
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 66 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2489 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Does GE offer non-GE aircraft when there is no GE-based competitor in that market space?
Most of the non-GE planes in their portfolio they have bought from airlines and then - often - leased back. For example, I believe they own 6 of Malasia's RR 777-200ERs.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2288 times:
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 20): EA (the P&W and GE Engine Alliance) would be the obvious back door entry to the market without upsetting the 787 apple cart.
...may not be as "obvious" as you're thinking--- there's still that minute little hurdle of EU legislation that currently prevents application of GP engines to the likes of the A350.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 3970 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2177 times:
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23): ...may not be as "obvious" as you're thinking--- there's still that minute little hurdle of EU legislation that currently prevents application of GP engines to the likes of the A350.
they got an exemption for the 767-400 so I can't see why they won't get one for an A350 especially since I'm sure there will be political pressure from "home " politiicans to do so!
25 DAYflyer: I think GECAS is making a mistake by not ordering the 787. IFLC is leaving them in the dust in an important market segment.
26 ConcordeBoy: ...I'm aware that they applied for exemption, but what evidence do you have to corroborate that they were granted it?
27 Trex8: well, you may have a point there though I find it hard to believe Boeing would say they were doing it without it actually being a reality, or maybe t
28 Stitch: Here you go, sir. From http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...hannel=awst&id=news/aw061107p3.xml It's only a matter of time...
29 Atmx2000: I presume they is Airbus and not EK, because I don't think EK would dare to order 350 aircraft in one order. I am skeptical that EK is in any hurry t
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3301 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, 
From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2040 posts, 
From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, 
From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, 
From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 243 posts, 
Stay tuned. 
From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2749 posts, 
From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
