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It's Time For Qantas To Upgrade It's Fleet  
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Qantas needs to upgrade it's fleet. With 20 A380s, 45 787s, 4 737s and 4 A330s. But there still is some old 737-400s. Plus they are gradully retiring there 747-300s but there are only 20 A380s on order and 24 747-400s and 6 747-400ERs. They will keep there 744ERS for at least another five years but what for the early 744s built in late 80s early 90s. It's time for Qantas to order some 777s or A340s. Plus for QantasLink they should retire to Q100s and Q200s. And order more Q400s. What do other people think?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Qantas is on the way to upgrade their fleet. QF has many aircrafts on order (A380,B787,B737-800) and also a bunch of options for more new planes(B787). With the A380 in service, QF will phase out their oldest B747-400 on their international network, but many B747-400 (especially the -400ER) are quite new and in a good shape, their is no need for a replacement.
The B747-300 will phase out and on the international routes the B747-400 or the B787/A330-300 will to that work, on the domestic routes the B747-300 will fly some years, that´s sure.(SYD-PER)
The B787 will replace the B767 on some domestic and international routes, and also some A330-300. And many B787 will go to JetStar for their new international network.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Qantas needs to upgrade it's fleet. With 20 A380s, 45 787s, 4 737s and 4 A330s. But there still is some old 737-400s. Plus they are gradully retiring there 747-300s but there are only 20 A380s on order and 24 747-400s and 6 747-400ERs. They will keep there 744ERS for at least another five years but what for the early 744s built in late 80s early 90s. It's time for Qantas to order some 777s or A340s. Plus for QantasLink they should retire to Q100s and Q200s. And order more Q400s. What do other people think?

737 so far as pax are concerned are all the same... (ok some are longer than others), but IFE is the main difference pax notice... so it doesn't matter if they are 737-3/4/500 or 8/9 etc.
Half of QF 744s are only about 10 years old (some are even less). The 744ER are expected to remain for some time (not 5 years as you suggest more like 10 years) and so they should...they have 777 interiors with larger overhead bins etc. Built in the late 80's? QF has 3x 744 built in 1989 (OJA,OJB,OJC). The rest were built in the 90's. (OEB,OEC,OED,OJS,OJT,OJU were all built after 1998 and the 6x744ER were built 2002/03). So thats 12x 744 that are less than 10 years old.

The QF fleet is let down by the 767s... they are a bit of a joke really... which is why QF has ordered large numbers of 787 as well as orders in place for A330.

777, A340... retire Q100,200?
Now the 777 I can see where you are coming from, but the others just show that you have not thought this through or lack much knowledge on the aviation industry.
QF doesn't need the 777 as it will be operating brand new 787 (probably a fair few 787-10), 744, A380. Many airlines that are going to operate the A380 are going to drop the 744 from their fleets and so they have 773ER as a replacement for that. By the time QF retires its 744, Boeing will have come out with Y3.
A340? what are you smoking? the A340 is dead... the 777 killed it and the likelyhood of 787-10 and A350XWB has put the nails in the coffin.
The B1900D is out of production... what would you suggest to replace the Q100,Q200 with? there is a need for small aircraft... If QF went around operating only Q300 and Q400 then it would be flying them half empty!
sorry if thats a bit harsh mate, but think about things a bit more before making silly comments.

You are right, the QF fleet is tired on the inside and some on the outside too.  Smile



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineJTR From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

According to Qantas' Fleet Development Page they have plenty of new narrowbodies. They have 33 737-800's with five more ordered. QF has seven Q400's with two unfilled orders, plus 12 options or purchase rights for QantasLink. QantasLink is adding four 717-200s to their fleet.

Plus, there's the A380 (20+4) and 787 (10 -8,30 -9, +20 options and 30 purchase rights) orders. Sure, QF has some older 734s, but there are a lot of brand-new widebodies headed that way.


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Had the A380 been on time QF already would have had several of them in service to replace the B743's with further to replace the eldest 744's. You must remember that due to unfair depreciation tax laws in Asutralia, All airlines make long use of their aircraft. The oldest 744's are 18 years old now so I don't expect any of them to retire within the next 2 years at least.

By the same token however QF are a bit slow compared to other airlines in replacing their fleet compared to other Asian Carriers.


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
You are right, the QF fleet is tired on the inside and some on the outside too

Personally; I love the Qantas fleet; I'd only seen their 747's until last week, when I came across 767 and 330 at HKG; they look stunning.


User currently offlineQantasairways From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1279 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

yeah it's true qantas are slow to upgrade their fleet compared to the Asian airlines such as Singapore Airlines.
They've been talking about replacing the 763s for a while now but they've been a bit slow to action it!

I personally think its terrible the 763 still operates some Asian international sectors when the competition are flying A330s and 777s on the same routes. The 763 works fine trans-Tasman and domestic, but on a medium length international flight, it's pretty embarassing!



Spirit of Australia
User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
737 so far as pax are concerned are all the same... (ok some are longer than others), but IFE is the main difference pax notice... so it doesn't matter if they are 737-3/4/500 or 8/9 etc.

The IFE in all the 737's is pretty much the same. I very much doubt if the average pax will notice any difference in the cabin monitors. Admittedly the cabin TV screens in the 738 make a nice whirring sound as they come down out of the ceiling. Smile


User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

Quoting Qantasairways (Reply 6):
I personally think its terrible the 763 still operates some Asian international sectors when the competition are flying A330s and 777s on the same routes.

I agree, or the JQ A320 from SIN to DRW and Cairns.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):

The 734's are being faded out, the 763's are being faded out and compared to AC, QF is a small operator, the 743's are being faded out quickly and the 744's will be around for a while yet. I'd like to see them domestically. Q100 & 200's? They are the best aircraft in my opinion. The A330's are reasonably new and they have the 787 and A380 on the way. I think that people are ignorant if they think 15 years is long enough service for an aircraft. They then go to scrapyards and are a complete waste.


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Qantas has just sold VH-EBU (Nalanji Dreaming) and VH-EBT all 743s.

User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3221 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Forget the any more ideas of a fleet upgrade, they're happening, what QF needs to focus on is their service, that clearly needs an investment in upgrade especially with the Australian public recently voting it the worst on board service for an international carrier in/out of Oz.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm a huge QF fan and supporter.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5318 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
Plus they are gradully retiring there 747-300s but there are only 20 A380s on order and 24 747-400s and 6 747-400ERs. They will keep there 744ERS for at least another five years but what for the early 744s built in late 80s early 90s. It's time for Qantas to order some 777s or A340s.

Qantas has more specialised needs than almost any other airline, particularly in the medium-haul and longhaul areas. Some of its domestic and tourist routes are the same sort of length as JFK-LAX, with nothing like the same volume of traffic; and for its longhaul routes 6,000-7,000nms. is the norm. It also has a lot of 'long thin overseas routes' to cope with outside peak periods - for many of which, at present, it has little option but to send a 744, whether full or not.

It's worth remembering that Qantas orders plus options for the 787 already stand at 60; and Dixon made it clear when that order was placed that he saw up to 100 being ordered in due course:-

"Qantas announced Tuesday evening a firm order for 45 Boeing 787 jets, worth more than $8 billion at list prices, and said it expects to eventually take a total 100 jets, which would bring the order to $13 billion.

"The airline called the 787 the "cornerstone" of its ambitious fleet-modernization plan."

"The deal includes 20 options, but "we regard the firm [orders] and the options as basically a done deal," said Qantas Chief Executive Geoff Dixon in a teleconference. "Given that we are committed to this particular aircraft ... we would expect to be taking up over a period of years round about 100."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2002682502_qantas14.html

There's no doubt in my mind that the 787 (because of its suitability for both medium-haul and longhaul routes and its promised fuel economy) is uniquely well-suited to Qantas' special needs, and will in due course become the mainstay of both Qantas itself and Jetstar (as the latter expands into serving tourist routes overseas). In many cases taking the place of, rather than complementing, the jumbos that were the only option for long-range over-ocean work until the advent of ETOPs.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5350 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 9):
The 734's are being faded out, the 763's are being faded out and compared to AC, QF is a small operator, the 743's are being faded out quickly and the 744's will be around for a while yet.

Some 734's are on the way out or to Jet Connect in NZ, some have not had replacements ordered yet and aren't that old, the remaining 743's will be around another 2-3 years atleast and only 2 have left. QF a small operator compared to AC based on what? Not sure on AC's exact fleet size but QF operate well over 200 aircraft.

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 10):
Qantas has just sold VH-EBU (Nalanji Dreaming) and VH-EBT all 743s.

There are still 4 743's in service and they wil remain for a while yet atleast 2-3 years. I'm not sure if EBU was actually sold rather parted out.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 5):
Personally; I love the Qantas fleet; I'd only seen their 747's until last week, when I came across 767 and 330 at HKG; they look stunning.

I'm not talking about the paintwork... some of the aircraft have had manyyy cycles... and are tired.

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 7):
The IFE in all the 737's is pretty much the same. I very much doubt if the average pax will notice any difference in the cabin monitors. Admittedly the cabin TV screens in the 738 make a nice whirring sound as they come down out of the ceiling.

I'm talking about compared to some other airlines that have IFE in the seats.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 11):
Forget the any more ideas of a fleet upgrade, they're happening, what QF needs to focus on is their service, that clearly needs an investment in upgrade especially with the Australian public recently voting it the worst on board service for an international carrier in/out of Oz.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm a huge QF fan and supporter.

According to one survey... other surveys say the opposite and QF has won awards recently for service. Trust me, there are many airlines flying in/out of Australia with far worse service!
But compared to many Asian airlines, QF does have a higher pax:staff ratio which isn't good for service (14 cabincrew on a 744 (412seats) vs others with 15-18 cabin crew and often less seats eg345 seats), QF has smaller seat pitch than many airlines at 31", Firstclass on QF needs new interior (coming on the A380) personally I think QF Skybeds are better than the First seats although obviously there is more room and service in First. The QF IFE isn't the best around and is relatively unreliable too.
So there are some things that QF could do to improve, but on the whole the service is still right up there and QF definantly does the full service when it comes to thru-check, delays/disruptions, lost luggage etc that many airlines don't really bother with. As you said ur a fan and supporter which is good!  Smile



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
QF doesn't need the 777 as it will be operating brand new 787 (probably a fair few 787-10),

Didn't they also enquire as to whether Boeing might build them some 787-8ERs with the -9 engines and fuel tanks in a -8 sized body (with extra wheel bogie?) to allow these planes to go SYD - LHR non-stop?


User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Thread starter):
They will keep there 744ERS for at least another five years but what for the early 744s built in late 80s early 90s

Any plane built in the late 80's early 90's is considered fairly new I think. Imagine if Qantas was flying ancient DC-9's or old MD-80's, then there might be something to complain about  wink 


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

I don´t see the point of this thread. Qantas has one of the best fleets of any airline, and lots of new aircraft on order. There are many other airlines who could need an "upgrade" before Qantas.

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4907 times:

Quoting Qantasairways (Reply 6):
I personally think its terrible the 763 still operates some Asian international sectors when the competition are flying A330s and 777s on the same routes

I agree with you and I want to say that to Robert Milton as well.

Why fly a B767 on AC1/2 (YYZ-NRT) at certain times of the year? That is horrible. The norm for the distance of a route is a B777 or B747.

But on a side note, I don't think the B767 flies on Japanese routes anymore do they? Or are they still flying PER-NRT?
I did CNS-KIX on an Australian B767 with onward service to the Goldcoast but I don't know if that route still exists? Does it?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 18):
But on a side note, I don't think the B767 flies on Japanese routes anymore do they?

looking at the current schedules they currently operate the B763 on the PER-NRT as well as HKG. This will change however with arrival of the A330s as mentioned before.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 18):
Quoting Qantasairways (Reply 6):
I personally think its terrible the 763 still operates some Asian international sectors when the competition are flying A330s and 777s on the same routes

I agree with you and I want to say that to Robert Milton as well.

Why fly a B767 on AC1/2 (YYZ-NRT) at certain times of the year? That is horrible. The norm for the distance of a route is a B777 or B747.

Many passengers, including myself, like the 767 due to its 2-3-2 economy seating. Only a 1 in 7 chance of winding up in a middle seat, better than all other widebodies. And if not mistaken AC hasn't used the 767 on nonstop YYZ-NRT flights for quite some time, or am I wrong?

Many Canada-Japan/Asia routes are highly seasonal and at certain times of the year it just doesn't make sense to operate an aircraft with 350 seats if the demand is for 200 seats or less. I'm sure AC 767s will no longer be used on Pacific routes once more 777s are delivered, and especially their 787s which will provide much greater flexibility in adjusting to seasonal traffic demands.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3694 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4657 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
I don´t see the point of this thread. Qantas has one of the best fleets of any airline, and lots of new aircraft on order. There are many other airlines who could need an "upgrade" before Qantas.

No kidding, I see its mostly Australians and Kiwis here claiming QF needs to update their fleet. Apparently they haven't flown on a US airline lately.

My personal experience with QF: Great airline, even their older birds are clean and well taken care of. IFE? Who gives a rat's ass? I do believe the vast majority of QF's fleet has at the very least cabin mounted screens. The 744, 734, 763 and the 738 I flew on all had at least that.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
The 744ER are expected to remain for some time (not 5 years as you suggest more like 10 years) and so they should

10 years at the absolute minimum. Even a 2002-era 744ER would only be 15 years old at that point, QF *could* conceivably keep it twice that amount of time without a problem. People seem to think the 380 is going to be an aircraft for aircraft replacement for the 744, but not so. The 744 will be complementing the 380 for a long time to come.



PHX based
User currently offlineQantasAirways From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1279 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 18):
But on a side note, I don't think the B767 flies on Japanese routes anymore do they? Or are they still flying PER-NRT?

As VHVXB mentioned they are still doing PER-NRT and HKG, but they also operate the HKG routes out of BNE and occasionally to NRT from MEL/SYD when the A330 is in maintenance. Maybe the BNE-HKG is okay, but I wouldn't really fancy flying the 763 from MEL to NRT!  Smile



Spirit of Australia
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4576 times:

Anytime I have ever flow QF, be it domestically or internationally, I have always found their fleet to be in absolute immaculate and pristine condition. If they were still flying the 747-200's, I would wager they would look better than the vast majority of North American carriers fleets.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 22):
Maybe the BNE-HKG is okay, but I wouldn't really fancy flying the 763 from MEL to NRT!

Well, as QantasAirways mentions, I am not a big fan of flying the B767-300 on long distance routes. Maybe a 50 minute flight from HND-KIX or 1.5 hour flights from ITM-OKA are a good distance for me.

And no, the B777 won't replace the AC flights on the transpacific routes. Perhaps out of YYZ to Asia, but not YVR except probably NRT or HKG.

Talking about Qantas. Yes, they do keep their aircraft in pristine condition. I wish some carriers such as AC would follow Qantas. I flew on one of their B747-300 once. They had IFE and the nice new interiors which actually dims as the flight progresses in order for the pax to fall asleep and wake up with minimum time-lag. I remember the good old days when QF operated NRT-CNS with the B747-300.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
25 TruemanQLD : There 767 fleet. AC has 42 including -200's So they go and sit ina graveyard and become an environmental disaster just becasue we dont get perfect se
26 Gemuser : Trueman this is a very weird statement! QF have 29 B767s, if AC has 42 then it is a larger B767 operator than QF, that does not make QF a "small" ope
27 JRowson : Qantas have some great aircraft in their fleet right now. I flew the 744ER between LHR and SYD and it was very comfortable, quiet, clean and modern. T
28 MilesDependent : So what exactly is Qantas replacing its 767-300s with? 787s? A330s? I know they have just announced a cabin refurbishment for the ex-BA machines so th
29 777STL : I believe the 787s are replacing both the 763s and eventually the A330s as they are transferred to Jetstar and the like.
30 Gemuser : The first 30 B787s for QF, the 11th to 40th deliveries, are direct one for one B767 replacements. No decision has yet been announced about what will
31 TruemanQLD : The A330 are much newer though
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