Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
KLM Language Deficiency: GRU And Others  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6153 times:

Yesterday flew KLM as usual AMS-GRU WBC and not a single FA who could speak Portuguese. This is yet another KLM flight to GRU without any announcement or crew who could speak the native language of the destination country.

I am fully aware that KLM's crew has a very good command of many European languages: perfect English, German, or French. In flights to China and other Asian destinations KLM uses native crew to assist with language deficiencies.

However, GRU remains a black spot in KLM network. I hear complain after complain from my own witness and other colleagues that KLM operations in GRU never have a native speaker - although KLM is making excellent returns on GRU operations, which explains it will be the launching destination of KL B77W.

AF recently recruited 70 native Brazilian FAs to improve its service onboard. It is high time KLM follows suit.

Rgs,

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

I've been on several KL, AF, AZ and BA flights to Denmark and Sweden where the crew did not speak Swedish or Danish.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

Flown on a lot of US airlines between the US and Amsterdam and never encountered an FA who spoke Dutch. I don't however complain about it.
Same with the Aeroflot flights between Moscow, Leningrad, and Amsterdam I've been on, Tarom, RAM, Tunisair, and others.

As long as an FA speaks the language of the airline's host country and English that's good enough for me. Anything else is a nice bonus, but I don't see it as a sign of bad service.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 1):
I've been on several KL, AF, AZ and BA flights to Denmark and Sweden where the crew did not speak Swedish or Danish

1. GRU is a long-haul destinations, which should offer different product and FA assistance if compared to short-haul destinations;

2. Portuguese is the 5th language spoken in the world;

3. Denmark and Sweden nationals are known to have perfect command of English - different from native Brazilians. Btw, in my last flights KL AMS-CPH Danish was spoken onboard.

4. If KLM adopts native FAs for flights to China and Asian destinations, why cant it do the same for GRU?

Rgs,


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6097 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
As long as an FA speaks the language of the airline's host country and English that's good enough for me. Anything else is a nice bonus, but I don't see it as a sign of bad service.

Point taken. However, my argument is that KLM could improve its service to GRU providing native language FA onboard its flights. KLM does the same for its operations in China. AF is doing the same for its flights to Brazil. LH recently introduced the same for all flights to India and China.

GRU is a very profitable destination for KLM, launching of the B77W, and therefore I think KLM could also offer a "dedicated" FA service in similar lines it offers to China.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6083 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
Flown on a lot of US airlines between the US and Amsterdam and never encountered an FA who spoke Dutch.

Huh? Both DL and UA at least have quite a few Dutch speakers; I have always had Dutch speakers when flying AMS-JFK (DL) and AMS-IAD (UA) over the past few years...


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4360 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

There are relatively more high yield business passengers to places like Tokyo and Hong Kong to make this effort worth it.
I don't think it's a huge issue, I imagine relatively many Brazilians who visit North West Europe will manage English, and usually there are not that many indepth discussion topics to speak with flight attendants about in the first place. Guess they'd figured out the portuguese words for chicken or beef by now.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
Huh? Both DL and UA at least have quite a few Dutch speakers; I have always had Dutch speakers when flying AMS-JFK (DL) and AMS-IAD (UA) over the past few years...

The same hear: have in my records plenty of flights AMS-JFK with DL and all of them with Dutch native speakers.

Rgs,


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6055 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Yesterday flew KLM as usual AMS-GRU WBC and not a single FA who could speak Portuguese.

For as great of an airline KLM was, they currently have a lack of foreign language skills. I have been there as well. Meaning I have flown KLM a few years ago (2003) on a GRU-AMS-MXP routing. The crew from GRU-AMS had no Portuguese speaker. At least the announcements were not made in Portuguese. The flight from AMS-MXP had no Italian speaking F/A, in fact all announcements were made in English and Dutch. It is very interesting considering the languages I have seen spoken with fellow European airlines Lufthansa, Air France, and British Airways.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
Flown on a lot of US airlines between the US and Amsterdam and never encountered an FA who spoke Dutch.

Delta, Northwest, United, and Continental all recruit Dutch speaking Flight Attendants. It is a question if they are being used for their language routes. The answer probably is not, since on a flight last year to Brazil the Flight Attendant on my Continental Airlines flight that was making the announcements sounded like she was reading the announcements in Portuguese phonetically, and truly should not have been qualified to speak the language. Additionally I have noticed that US airlines have a severe lack of reading materials, movies, and audio programming in the destination language.

The pay for speaking a Foreign Language with a US based airline truly is a joke.

-JD


User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5913 times:

Lets talk about NW, KLM's North American partner. Until their latest round of bankruptcy, their collective agreement with their flight attendants did not have any rules regarding route language proficiency. Although in the late 90s NW did hire route language capable fight attendants, they had relatively lower seniority than most of the unilingual Anglophone FAs. Since international flight pairing were more desirable they were filled by the unilingual FAs rather than route language bilingual FAs. Now the FA collective agreement gives NW more flexibily to mandate that its international flights are staffed with international route language qualified FAs.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 9):
Until their latest round of bankruptcy, their collective agreement with their flight attendants did not have any rules regarding route language proficiency. Although in the late 90s NW did hire route language capable fight attendants, they had relatively lower seniority than most of the unilingual Anglophone FAs. Since international flight pairing were more desirable they were filled by the unilingual FAs rather than route language bilingual FAs.

You can thank the unions for all of that!

-JD


User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
As long as an FA speaks the language of the airline's host country and English that's good enough for me. Anything else is a nice bonus, but I don't see it as a sign of bad service.

Agree. I don't see a problem here ....

MB


User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5699 times:

Man, how expensive would it be to accomodate all languages? This is like when people immigrate to the US and they all want govt. services in their native toungue, it would be far too expensive to do so.


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 5):
Huh? Both DL and UA at least have quite a few Dutch speakers; I have always had Dutch speakers when flying AMS-JFK (DL) and AMS-IAD (UA) over the past few years...

Doesn't mean they're always on duty...
Both airlines have at least 2 flights a day to and from Amsterdam. So they'd need at least 8 FAs each speaking Dutch (given crew rest times) to have a decent coverage, and those people'd never get to fly another route.
And even then, you'd only encounter them if they were assigned to the section of the cabin that your seat is in.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
This is like when people immigrate to the US and they all want govt. services in their native toungue, it would be far too expensive to do so.

Exactly. I thought of the same analogy.

MB


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
Man, how expensive would it be to accomodate all languages? This is like when people immigrate to the US and they all want govt. services in their native toungue, it would be far too expensive to do so.

You sadly are equating two things that have not one single thing to do with the other. Immigration, and Customer Service. Both are two separate issues. I will leave the immigration for a non-aviation discussion.

When it comes to the Global marketplace, for which the airlines are in. An increased presence in foreign language's is required. Emirates, British Airways, Etihad, Air France, and others are all heralded for their outstanding use of foreign language speaking crews. Todays marketplace is a very different one from 30 years ago. Seniority or not, you are going to be seeing a lot more language speakers on international flights. It is a selling tools, and the US airlines are starting to see the importance in that. They have recruited Foreign Language Speakers for years, yet only recently has it become evident that they are being put to use.

I commend Delta Air Lines for hiring only Foreign Language Speaking Flight Attendants, this shows their commitment to the international marketplace. Not every country speaks English, and not every dollar earned on US airlines are American.

-JD


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

At BA, GRU is a very high yield business route. The route uses the high J configured 747 most days and the Club World cabin (70 seats) is consistently full. In the european winter an additional 3 services are operated per week due to high business demand. We have 3 Sao Paulo based crew on the route, 1 works in Club, 2 in economy.

I think the problem in terms of KLM is it is essential that an airlines international based crew has a good command of the language of the airlines home country, as well as their native tongue. While it is probably quite easy for airlines like BA to source brazillians with good english , or Air france to find brazillians with good french it might be difficult to find a big pool of brazillians or portuguese with a good command of dutch to select from.


User currently offlineLan1981 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 15):
When it comes to the Global marketplace, for which the airlines are in. An increased presence in foreign language's is required. Emirates, British Airways, Etihad, Air France, and others are all heralded for their outstanding use of foreign language speaking crews.

As do I; however, on BA European flights due to there being no requirement for language speakers it is not unusual to end up with Finnish speakers on a London-Madrid service, and Spanish speakers on a London-Helsinki service...
 hissyfit 


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

Quoting BAStew (Reply 16):
While it is probably quite easy for airlines like BA to source brazillians with good english , or Air france to find brazillians with good french it might be difficult to find a big pool of brazillians or portuguese with a good command of dutch to select from.

Interestingly, I was told when KLM recruited in China and Japan the requirements were fluent Chinese or Japanese and English. The converstions between crewmembers aboard the aircraft would be in English. However, the announcements would be made in Chinese/Japanese, Dutch, and English.

I am unable to verify if this is true however..


-JD


User currently offlineDiesel33 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
4. If KLM adopts native FAs for flights to China and Asian destinations, why cant it do the same for GRU?

Rgs,

I have flown KLM's route AMS-MNL and have never encountered a Tagalog (Filipino) speaking FA.


User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 15):
You sadly are equating two things that have not one single thing to do with the other. Immigration, and Customer Service. Both are two separate issues. I will leave the immigration for a non-aviation discussion

While the two issues are indeed two seperate issues, they do have somethine to do with each other. Be it the US govt. or an airline, attempting to accomodate all languages means greatly increased expense both in terms of numbers of staff and related salaries. I've worked for more than one major corporation and given the same position, they paid more for associates who spoke Spanish or French. Not to mention the sheer numbers of employees you're talking about if you want to cover all the languages you're likely to encounter. In the rare case you get someone who speaks several different languages they're going to demand a much higher salary because of it. It's just simply impractical for a government or an airline.



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 18):
Interestingly, I was told when KLM recruited in China and Japan the requirements were fluent Chinese or Japanese and English. The converstions between crewmembers aboard the aircraft would be in English. However, the announcements would be made in Chinese/Japanese, Dutch, and English.

Guess this would make sense.

Quoting Lan1981 (Reply 17):
As do I; however, on BA European flights due to there being no requirement for language speakers it is not unusual to end up with Finnish speakers on a London-Madrid service, and Spanish speakers on a London-Helsinki service...

I guess this is because it would be difficult to recruit accurate amounts of foreign language speakers for european routes. EU law would firstly prohibit us from refusing anyone a job because they are spanish or french and we need finnish, swedish and danish speakers. Secondly, the job would be a lot less attractive for the language speaker concerned. European routes are operated by the short haul crews. Most people do this job for the obvious advantage of travelling to many cities. Because someone is french does not mean they want to spend every working day flying backwards and forwards to paris, lyon and nice. They want to fly all over europe.

Foreign based crew are not just about language ability but also cultural awareness. Our Indian based crews are not really necessary from a language perspective as the large majority of indians speak english. But from a cultural perspective, they are imperative. Same for our japanese based crew. Obviously their language abilities are essential on our NRT flight but their cultural knowledge is also imperative.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 20):
I've worked for more than one major corporation and given the same position, they paid more for associates who spoke Spanish or French.

You would be shocked to know what little compensation foreign language speakers for US airlines make. The compensation often times does not mitigate the workload that follows suit with speaking the language of the destination. For example in the US, most airlines as a general rule only pay $1.50 to $2.25 per hour in addition to the normal pay. So if you are on a 9 housr flight to Italy and you are the speaker all you would make is $13.50 to $20.25 additional than other Flight Attendants on that flight that are not language qualified. The problem is the airlines for the most part do not compensate well enough for a person of foreign language proficiency to remain loyal to that airline.

My base salary at my employer is $64500.00 a year, I am a foreign langauge skilled person and in saying so I am required to travel often for my position. That additional pay is $9200.00 per year. My position includes a variety of skills, of which my foreign language skills are vital. There are of course other incentives and bonuses which bring my salary much higher than that.

Up until a month ago I was considering a return to the airlines. However, to my shock the pay was less than poverty level at $1327.50 per month base salary from the airline. If I broke that into a 40 hour work week, that would only be $8.29 per hour! It is amazing. I worked for an airline up until 2001. The salary I was making for that airline was $26.90 per flight hour, plus an additional $2.00 per flight hour for language pay. At the end of the month I would make about $2930.00. Compared to what the airlines are starting at now. That is a shocking distance. I guess it goes to show what they value their employees at.

-JD


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
There are relatively more high yield business passengers to places like Tokyo and Hong Kong to make this effort worth it.

GRU is a top yielding route for KLM, which explains it will be the launching destination of the B77W.

I dont want to get into the many merits of this debate. However, the point is that KLM must accord GRU its equivalent status as am important market and therefore offer equivalent service, i.e. native language onboard. KLM has been offering specif products for China and India for some time now. For the same reason AF recently recruited 70 native Brazilian FAs.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
don't think it's a huge issue

This is an important issue, which has important marketing dimensions. As a FF AMS-GRU I can realise the problems of many pax when it comes to language issue onboard KLM. I myself as Portuguese speaker have to help pax everytime. Not even announcements are made in Portuguese.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 15):
Emirates, British Airways, Etihad, Air France, and others are all heralded for their outstanding use of foreign language speaking crews.

100% correct. In fact, all European airlines flying to Brazil use Brazilian crew on their flights: BA, LH, LX, AF, IB, AZ. KLM is the only ailrine without Brazilian crew. It is a shame.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 16):
At BA, GRU is a very high yield business route. The route uses the high J configured 747 most days and the Club World cabin (70 seats) is consistently full. In the european winter an additional 3 services are operated per week due to high business demand. We have 3 Sao Paulo based crew on the route, 1 works in Club, 2 in economy.

For KLM, GRU is also a very high yielding route - one of the most profitable in its network. Therefore my statement that the destination has to receive equivalent treatment in the product to places such as China and Japan - for which KLM uses local crew.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 16):
it might be difficult to find a big pool of brazillians or portuguese with a good command of dutch to select from.

You have a point, however, in the case of China and Japan, KLM's local crew only have command of English and the native language and they communicate with the Dutch crew in English.

Rgs,


User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Maybe if after all the languages listed above, if the passengers don't understand them, in particular Portuguese, maybe they should fly on TAP.

In all seriousness, most of my experiences with languages aboard aircraft, is that an FA will play a tape of that language after the native and English version during the safety demonstration. After that, customer service is a toss-up.


25 Incitatus : I've flown US-Brazil without a single flight attendant that spoke Portuguese. Prior to closing the door the Portuguese speaking gate agent came on boa
26 Viscount724 : On most of my KL flights, both longhaul and shorthaul, when there are no flight attendants fluent in the destination language, they normally have reco
27 Rafabozzolla : About AF. My cousin has just been hired as an Portuguese Speaking FA for Air France. She speaks both French and English (as well as Portuguese, of cou
28 Hardiwv : This is my point. Currently all European airlines flying to Brazil have native Brazilian crew, except for KLM. My point from the beginning was that K
29 Planemanofnz : Most people speak English today, especially very basic English if they are rich enough to be using an aeroplane. No offense, but, I think that the ma
30 Hardiwv : This is not the point. I am saying that as part of the product enhancement KLM should offer Brazilian crew in the flight to GRU considering that abou
31 MEACEDAR : When I use to fly KL to BEY in the summers, the flight crew didn't speak Arabic. I see these on many airlines, especially U.S. Airlines.
32 Post contains images Pyrex : And what is the problem with that? It is not like you are paying a woman less to do the same job as a man or something like that (which would be disc
33 TYCOON : My two cents: I completely agree with Hardiwv's point - a very valid one. As we have all demonstrated, Brazil is an important country in the global ec
34 BAStew : It isn't just about a language with local based crew. It is also about their knowledge of their country. For example on a BA flight from LHR-GRU we ha
35 MEA-707 : Most Filipinos are good (enough) in English, same like for instance in India, Singapore etc. were English is widely spoken, at least compared to Chin
36 Post contains images Hardiwv : No need for local crew, I assume! Totally agree with your point - not only BA has realised this in high-yield, important markets, such as GRU, as all
37 FLYGUY767 : Your comment seems of a totally arrogant nature. To make a blanket statement that if people are rich enough they speak English is false. Yet another
38 TYCOON : Quoting Pyrex (Reply 32): What about the largest one, TP? Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36) No need for local crew, I assume! Although sometimes the same wor
39 FLYGUY767 : Well 9 time out of 10, Brazilian Portuguese is what any traveller to Brazil will have to use. -JD
40 AUA747 : I fly several times EWR-AMS on CO and IAD-AMS on UA and all the times they have at least 1 FA that speaks dutch.
41 Post contains images Hardiwv : 100% correct. Yields have no correlation to language ability or knowledge of English. In fact, the majority of the Brazilian elite (or the high yield
42 Adicool : Does anyone how LH is doing in GRU? I flew with them onc to CCS and they had a few spanish speaking FA. In general, I think an airline like KL does no
43 FLYGUY767 : Loads on KLM for AMS-GRU, and GRU-AMS are much heavier on the Brazilian origination than European origination side.. So in turn, yes as has been stat
44 USADreamliner : Ok, you are against immigration...probably another minute men. alright. We get it. Anywho...My experience with BA ( never flew KL) on long haul fligh
45 Post contains images Hardiwv : LH uses Brazilian crew for both its flights FRA-GRU and MUC-GRU. Like all other European airlines, BA uses Brazilian crew for its flights LHR-GRU. Ag
46 Embajador3 : In my opinion, if i wish to hear spanish while travelling, i'll fly Iberia. It is nice to hear my native language if i.e. i fly Malev, however if i f
47 C010T3 : Well, you can actually find 30 meanings for "bicha" in the Houaiss Dictionary. Most of them are used in both countries, many have fallen in disuse in
48 Post contains images Nosedive : My SXF-RIX-SXF flights were exactly like that, as was my CPH-SXF flight. English, German, and French were all ok. After that... On the plus side, I l
49 HnlBoi : Coulndt have said it any better......I agree
50 Post contains images Pyrex : I can only imagine the look on the custom's agent face. Actually to be quite honest I believe TAP should have some Brazilian flight attendants (proba
51 Airtebiong : I've done this a couple of times on NH LHR-NRT flight as well in addition to the 'please switch off electronic devices.....' announcement when there
52 LAXspotter : LOL, so true. There are people who dont need to know english and can still buy a ticket, knowing english doesnt mean economic prosperity. I am quite
53 HECA : And upon arrival in AMS? I know that for flights arriving from the Middle East, KLM has ground crew available at the gates in AMS to help transfer pas
54 Hardiwv : No. There is no ground assistance in Portuguese whatsoever. Rgs,
55 Post contains images SK601 : As a former KL ground agent I know at least 7 agents who do speak Portuguese fluently. A few times I asked them to translate. I frequently worked the
56 AA767400 : Seniority at AA has nothing to do with Flight Crews that speak the destination language. Unions do not affect the language program. Each destination
57 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : AA is a rarity in the market. They have one of the most in-depth if not the greatest number of Language Qualified Flight Attendants in the United Sta
58 DCAjet : There are some inaccuracies here.. 1. BA does not staff its GRU-LHR or EZE-LHR (the same flight, after all) flight with an all foreign national crew:
59 FLYGUY767 : Who said that BA staffs its EZE-LHR, and GRU-LHR flights with all foreign national crew? Who said Lufthansa staffs its Brazil flights with all foreig
60 DCAjet : Here's where I was coming from. Cheers!
61 FLYGUY767 : DCAJet, Perhaps I read those statements differently.. What I got from them was that there are some Brazilian crew on both BA and LH flights to/from B
62 Tsaord : Does KLM fly into Lisbon? I hear Potugal and Brazillian people sometimes can not understand each other because of the differences in how they speak it
63 Hardiwv : Correct. You understood my point. Both (LH and BA) use 1 to 3 Brazilian (GRU) or Argentinian (EZE) crew on their flights. AF the same, about 1 to max
64 AA767400 : I no my friend. Not if you are junior it's not. AND you have to have at least 10yrs seniority to drop the qualification, and that's if you can hold t
65 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : 3 legs in one day on a route like San Juan? Wow... 10 yrs... Wow... I guess people are stuck who are Language Speakers.. Wow! LOL... Have a few mojit
66 AA767400 : Why do you think Flight Crews look worn and torn on the A300? This is a sample trip from our JFK bid sheet: Day 1- JFK-SJU,SJU-MIA,MIA-SDQ. 8 hour la
67 Yulguy : KLM having a low number of Portuguese speakers on its Brazilian flights is one thing. Can you imagine if KLM did not staff enough Dutch speakers on a
68 FLYGUY767 : Wasn't or why doesn't AA start the F/A hiring process again? That is almost inhumane.. I mean it is one thing in Japan where a F/A will work HND-CTS-
69 Asuflyer : Definitaly true. I have flown these flights a number of times and once there was only 1 flight attendant who could actually speak fluent ENGLISH.
70 Tsaord : So if and when AA gets ORD-EZE authority can the most Senior at ORD always get that route or will the go to mostly spanish speakers? For Airlines fly
71 Planemanofnz : You know, KL does not have to be compared to LH and BA all the time. Maybe KL see that, as a cost cutting measure, it would be pointless to hire all
72 Post contains links Viscount724 : AC (but no other Canadian airline) is still subject to a Canadian federal law that has long required AC (mainline) to provide service in both officia
73 Hardiwv : I sympatise with your point of view and Cananda being a bi-lingual country If KL wants to expand in GRU, as already decided by the introduction of the
74 Planemanofnz : I would think that other places would come first. If KL could, it would expand already more than daily frequencies to places like NRT, except slots a
75 Hardiwv : They are all native Brazilians...
76 Planemanofnz : Oh ok.
77 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Sort of. It's probably one of the rarer countries that have more than one official language but probably less than 30% of the population actually spe
78 FLYGUY767 : AIR FRANCE-KLM... If Air France sees the need for Portuguese speakers, you will surely be seeing Portuguese speakers aboard KLM in the next year. Mos
79 B767300ER : While it is true the pay differential is quite minimal for LOD (Language of Destination) F/A, one of the side benefits is that with lesser seniority y
80 Planemanofnz : Exactly proving my point FLYGUY767! Thank you! This shows that there is nothing wrong with the product and that it already makes money ; there is no
81 Hardiwv : Dont you think that AF, BA and LH are all making money in GRU? This does not deter them from introducing Brazilian crew in their flights to GRU, ther
82 FLYGUY767 : This I can fully agree on.. -JD
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
KLM, Volare And Others. posted Tue Feb 26 2002 21:44:37 by Delta777
KE Wants To Fly To GRU And JNB posted Wed Jun 6 2007 13:03:58 by LIPZ
Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others posted Thu May 31 2007 07:11:48 by Manni
BA Takes 100% IB (with TPG And Others) posted Mon May 21 2007 19:27:25 by Dme
TAP: More Flights To GIG, GRU And New Route To BSB posted Fri Apr 6 2007 02:03:30 by LipeGIG
CX To Add Frequencies To LHR/JFK/SFO And Others posted Wed Feb 28 2007 17:36:20 by Jimyvr
LAX And Others Object To Delta Re-Org Plan posted Fri Jan 26 2007 13:05:51 by Laxintl
GOL LIM-GRU And LIM-SCL-EZE Daily posted Tue Jan 16 2007 14:34:16 by Hardiwv
LH Summer 2007 Changes - 3 Daily PVG And Others posted Wed Nov 8 2006 19:51:00 by HB-IWC
AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others posted Sun Oct 29 2006 16:47:13 by HB-IWC