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Wet Leased And Dry Leased?  
User currently offlineRevo From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 393 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

I have heard that airlines have Wet-leased and Dry-leased aircraft many times but i actually don't know what they mean.

Could somebody please help with this!!

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

There are small variations, but Generally:

Wet Lease
The lease of the aircraft, with fuel, crew & maintance included.

Dry Lease
The lease of the aircraft, not including fuel, crew & maintance.


User currently offlineRevo From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

Oh ok thanks for that info

User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Add Damp leased, everything but cabincrew is supplied by the owner.

User currently offlineRevo From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

OK thanks, i didnt realise there was one in between (damp). I think i understand the difference now. Smile

User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4007 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Another phrase you will see is ACMI.
This stands for Aircraft Crew Maintenance Insurance (but not fuel)

It is commonly used when airlines lease an aircraft to operate a single, or short series, of flights, usually because their aircraft is unserviceable.
When I was in the charter business, there was so much ACMI work in Europe in the summer that we tried to keep one of our Tristars ready to go, and it flew away at an hours notice every couple of days. Good money!


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):

Wet Lease
The lease of the aircraft, with fuel, crew & maintance included.

Wet leases do not include fuel. If fuel is included, it becomes a "charter" instead. Also, a wet lease can only be between two licensed airlines as the aircraft flies under the callsign of the lessee.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 6):
Wet Lease
The lease of the aircraft, with fuel, crew & maintance included.

Wet leases do not include fuel. If fuel is included, it becomes a "charter" instead. Also, a wet lease can only be between two licensed airlines as the aircraft flies under the callsign of the lessee.

Wet refers to the liquid in the tanks. So wet leases do include fuel although an arrangement can be made for the leasee to provide it. A charter is a unscheduled flight.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7530 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

An example of a current wet lease is 738 G-OXLA on wet lease from XL Airways to GB Airways following the return of a GBAirways 320 (G-TTOA now with TAM) to its lessor.

The leased aircraft looks as if it is in a version of full BA colours. But if you look carefully you will see this is not the case. The dark blue underside comes further up the fuselage than it does on BA aircraft. And that same dark blue area turns up at the base of the rear cabin door towards the tail cone (which it does not in BA livery). Because the dark blue area covers more of the fuselage than ut does on an aircraft in BA colours, there is insufficient room for the titles to be painted in their normal position. So instead of being on the lower forward fuselage they are on the upper fuselage. Note also the remnants of a gold cheat line on the lower forward fuselage. So this aircraft is not in a BA colour scheme but in the basic colours of its former operator, Miami Air International with a (crude) BA Union Flag tail and the BA titles and "Speedmarque" also added:

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Photo © Sergio Domingos


This is by no means the first wet leased aircraft to be operated on BA flights in a hybrid colour scheme. In 1988 when the BAe ATPs it had ordered were delivered late BA wet leased two BAe 146 aircraft - the first of this type to be flown with BA titles. And a year later a shortage of capacity in its LHR fleet resulted in the first 727 to fly with 'British Airways' titles:

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Photo © David Unsworth - WorldAirImages
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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages


Incidentally it is not possible and will still not be possible even after the introduction of Open Skies for a British aircraft to be operated on wet lease in the USA like the above American aircraft were operated in the UK. This is because it is forbidden by US law.

More recently BA wet leased from Air Atlanta a 737 that Air Atlanta had leased from LH. Note the light grey LH underside and the 'Operated by Air Atlanta' titles on the lower forward fuselage:

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Photo © Ralf Langer


When BA itself is short of capacity today it usually wet leases an aircraft from Titan Airways. I believe the last time this occurred was when 752 G-ZAPU was wet leased last December. It was ferried from STN to LHR on 16 December and put into service as BA1306 to ABZ the following morning. Its last BA flight was a shuttle flight from GLA to LHR on 19 December. It was then ferried back to STN on 20 December as BA9250P. Asa can be seen in this photo there were no marks on the aircraft to even suggest it was flying for BA:

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Photo © P R D Jones



User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2768 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 7):
Wet refers to the liquid in the tanks. So wet leases do include fuel although an arrangement can be made for the leasee to provide it.

I've negotiated and signed dozens of wetlease deals and have never ever seen one where the fuel was provided. It's all semantics I guess.


User currently offlineMACDADDY From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

Any lease consists of 2 parts ACMI - Aircraft Crew Maintainence and Insurance.

The airline leasing in the aircraft pays an hourly rate for these 4 costs only. All other costs including Fuel, Overflight charges and handling are at the expense of the airline who is leasing in the aircraft.

A WET lease is an ACMI deal including Cockpit and Cabin crew

A DAMP lease is an ACMI deal including only the Cockpit crew

A DRY lease is an AMI deal only - NO crew are provided.

The only thing with the fuel is a reconcilliation that takes place, post flying, where the figure at the start and end of the flying is check to see if there is a surplus (in which case a credit back) or a shortage (in which case an invoiced cost) compared to the start figure.


MAC



www.plane-sight-images.photoshelter.com
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7530 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Quoting MACDADDY (Reply 10):
A WET lease is an ACMI deal including Cockpit and Cabin crew

A DAMP lease is an ACMI deal including only the Cockpit crew

A DRY lease is an AMI deal only - NO crew are provided.

I think the use of the term 'DAMP lease' is a local, British thing. I do not think, for example, that Americans would use the term. But someone will correct me if I am wrong!


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):

I think the use of the term 'DAMP lease' is a local, British thing. I do not think, for example, that Americans would use the term. But someone will correct me if I am wrong!

Nah, we'd use "moist" instead. Big grin



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 5):
It is commonly used when airlines lease an aircraft to operate a single, or short series, of flights, usually because their aircraft is unserviceable.

What you're talking about here is also commonly referred to as "subservice", which can be on an ACMI basis.

ACMI leases can also be long-term. For example, World operates MD11Fs for Air Canada, EVA and Lufthansa Cargo on an ACMI basis, under contracts that last for several years. All of these result in payments to World for the aircraft, the flight crew, aircraft maintenance, and insurance. The flights operate under the call sign of the leasing carrier, who fuels them, schedules them, pays landing and control fees, etc. Similarly, ABX Air provides 767-200Fs to ANA under similar leases.

I have doubts whether a Part 121 Carrier in the US can offer and/or receive a "damp" lease on a passenger jet. It would seem to me that at least the minimum number of f/as as required by the FARs or the Ops Spec of the leasing carrier would have to be aboard, as they are trained in that carrier's procedures. Beyond that, the carrier who is leasing the aircraft from the operating carrier could provide as many "helpers" as they want, I assume, to maintain service consistency. MaxJet, for example, is wet-leasing (ACMI) a 757 from Pace on a regular basis. It is staffed with Pace f/as, but MaxJet also has some of its folks aboard, I understand.

FWIW, the FARs define a "wet lease" as follows: "Wet lease means any leasing arrangement whereby a person agrees to provide an entire aircraft and at least one crewmember. A wet lease does not include a code-sharing arrangement. " (FAR 119.3) There are permissions that are necessary to obtain from the FAA when undertaking a wet lease, as prescribed in FAR 119.53. Part 119 applies to all operators of aircraft under Part 121, 125 and 135 (See FAR 119.1).

[Edited 2007-06-21 01:33:07]

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