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Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries  
User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10327 times:

I wonder if this was part of the deal with their recent Airbus order this week?

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=TTN&artid=125788

The article states their four aircraft are being deferred to delivery in 2013 which is more appopriate for their business model.


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40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10288 times:
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Wow that has to suck for Airbus, seeing as Etihad are set to take four of the A380 test frames.

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?

Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10168 times:

Quoting Blsbls99 (Thread starter):
I wonder if this was part of the deal with their recent Airbus order this week?

Yes, it was announced at Etihads order press conference AFAIK.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10134 times:
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Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month.

Right on. I guess is this is good news for Airbus.

I was trying to imply that this was a bit of a blow for the A380 program, but I guess Etihad deferring is nothing of the sort.

Thanks for the insight.


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1864 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10058 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
Wow that has to suck for Airbus, seeing as Etihad are set to take four of the A380 test frames.

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?


I dont think this news is particularly bad for Airbus. The A380's will continue to be produced, whether Etihad gets them or not. And other airlines and take Etihad's intended frames. So, Airbus will not loose anything in this situation.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9609 times:

So VS and EY will get their A 380s in 2013.

This is a good move by EY as it allows them to establish themselves properly in core long haul markets such as NYC, SYD & LHR for an extra 4 years before they increase capacity from an A 340 / B 77W to an A 380 which is a big jump.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9548 times:

well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

Extremely unlikely.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
This is a good move by EY as it allows them to establish themselves properly in core long haul markets such as NYC, SYD & LHR for an extra 4 years before they increase capacity from an A 340 / B 77W to an A 380 which is a big jump.

Spot on, and a very smart move IMHO - their A346s will be tough to beat on the LHR and CDG runs that they will have the A380 on.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

I believe EY's are Trent powered.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month.

Right on. I guess is this is good news for Airbus

I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9412 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

I believe EY's are Trent powered.

Assuming they are in the air, I cant see EK taking four odd engined A380s.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

Doubt it. The 747-8 is a stunning looking plane, but performance wise I just dont think the 747-8I is all its cracked up to be.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4341 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9347 times:

Etihad was originally supposed to get frame 2, 4 , 7 and 9. Maybe due to the wiring changes and the testing process they have gotten less structurally sound then what Etihad was promised, and they now prefer fresh aircraft later in the run without the problems the early frames had?
Of course Airbus won't scrap these early aircraft but have to do more rebuilding to get the up to par with the later production aircraft.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 10):
Etihad was originally supposed to get frame 2, 4 , 7 and 9. Maybe due to the wiring changes and the testing process they have gotten less structurally sound then what Etihad was promised, and they now prefer fresh aircraft later in the run without the problems the early frames had?
Of course Airbus won't scrap these early aircraft but have to do more rebuilding to get the up to par with the later production aircraft.

Why would re-wiring make a plane less structurally sound? What is involved in the process? Is it like a D-Check sort of thing?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9253 times:

EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 12):
EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....

I thought it was the LGW route that was struggling? Their A346 is being put on the LHR run I think - an upgrade from the A345 on there in terms of capacity. Means nothing of course but every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

Good to hear, I must admit I've not flown EY out of LHR for a while but all the previous flights I was on were more than half empty (same as QR). Am trying EK from LHR next week and flights already showing full Sad



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 14):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

Good to hear, I must admit I've not flown EY out of LHR for a while but all the previous flights I was on were more than half empty (same as QR). Am trying EK from LHR next week and flights already showing full

Have a massive soft spot for all three airlines actually - best flight i've ever taken was Pearl LHR-AUH on A345. Just out of this world. Good to see them all doing well.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13260 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9108 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

Doesn't matter... early airframes can be converted from one to another. Its costly... but far less costly than having the airframes sit for six months trying to find a customer.

Now development aircraft have tons of wire that needs to be ripped out (from various sensors put in for flight testing). If you're ripping apart an airfame anyway... its the cheapest time to convert from one engine to another. Besides, if its originally delivered with an engine, its cheaper than re-qualifying the airframe for the other engine.

I have a feeling that they decided that the "early adopter risk" has just become too extreme.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.

Maybe... the lateness of the A380 has put a huge wrench in fleet update plans. It would be worth something for early delivery airframes...

Is there any news on the final customer? Heck, its possible this will "daisy chain" through the process allowing airbus to bring in certain deliveries. Note: I'm just speculating.

I'll be curious as to whom these really go to...
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9088 times:

I have always supported GF, have done since the late 80's, but my last trip from DXB to LHR was a total nightmare and enough is enough. EY are good but the trip to DXB from AUH can be a pain, mind you saying that not quite as big a pain as DXB airport at the moment (same as DOH) I'll give EK a try next week and see how that is.


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

Doesn't matter... early airframes can be converted from one to another. Its costly... but far less costly than having the airframes sit for six months trying to find a customer.

IIRC they have already been built - two of them are already flying i am sure. Bit late to change the powerplant surely? They would need to completely change the pylons etc. Thats major work - are you sure its no big deal?

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.

Maybe... the lateness of the A380 has put a huge wrench in fleet update plans. It would be worth something for early delivery airframes...

Is there any news on the final customer? Heck, its possible this will "daisy chain" through the process allowing airbus to bring in certain deliveries. Note: I'm just speculating.

I'll be curious as to whom these really go to...
Lightsaber

I am sure its QF, but we shall see. I've not heard anything, but am doing QF's credit report update next week so will grill them about it when I speak to them. Doubt they will tell me, but its worth a go!  Smile



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8679 times:

Call me crazy, but the first thing in my mind after I heard this was: BA can get a plane in time for London Olympics 2012...

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8650 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 12):
EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....

I thought it was the LGW route that was struggling? Their A346 is being put on the LHR run I think - an upgrade from the A345 on there in terms of capacity. Means nothing of course but every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

LGW-AUH ended around end of March..I was planning on flying SJC-DFW-LGW-AUH-KHI, which would have given me 3x773ER and 2x772ER on one trip.. biggrin , but the problem was LGW-AUH was being terminated on the return leg, so I wound up flying with AA/GF/EK instead.....

My in laws recently fly KHI-AUH-LHR (and back) and 1/2 the plane was empty on their A332's.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8566 times:

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

The fiduciary responsibility of due diligence for corporate officers make consideration of the 747-8 in such a case an absolute requirement. That doesn't mean they'll buy it, but they absolutely must evaluate it.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Why would re-wiring make a plane less structurally sound?

Re-wiring an aircraft (properly) would not make it structurally less sound.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
What is involved in the process?

No damage to the structure should occur during re-wiring. All wiring should be accessible.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Is it like a D-Check sort of thing?

Re-wiring is just one part of a D-check. In a D-check, essentially everything is stripped out, including the wiring. Then the structure is inspected for corrosion and all the corrosion is repaired. Then new stuff, e.g. wiring, interiors, etc. are installed. The aircraft should, except for fatigue, be good as new.


User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8383 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
My in laws recently fly KHI-AUH-LHR (and back) and 1/2 the plane was empty on their A332's.....

Several posters at a.net have mentioned that EK fills up the belly with cargo depending on the number of pax, so the 1/2 empty pax deck could mean a full cargo deck. It must be nice for the gulf airlines: lots of money, lots of cargo, lots of pax, lots of rulers with big egos which need to be satisfied. As an airline, what more you you want?  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
Re-wiring is just one part of a D-check. In a D-check, essentially everything is stripped out, including the wiring. Then the structure is inspected for corrosion and all the corrosion is repaired. Then new stuff, e.g. wiring, interiors, etc. are installed. The aircraft should, except for fatigue, be good as new.

Didn't know that much work was involved in a D check. Do you think the 380 will ever get to a D check before being scrapped? The wiring alone must be a nightmare...

iwok


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

Quoting Iwok (Reply 22):
Do you think the 380 will ever get to a D check before being scrapped?

I'm not very optimistic about WhaleJets enjoying long service lives but, yes, I do think many and probably most of them will be in service long enough to see their first D-check. I don't expect many to see a second D-check.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6938 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8190 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 18):

IIRC they have already been built - two of them are already flying i am sure. Bit late to change the powerplant surely? They would need to completely change the pylons etc. Thats major work - are you sure its no big deal?

That was always the plan. All four of the developmental aircraft destined for EY are already flying. Three have RR and one has GP. The GP frame (#9) will be (or was going to be) converted to GP prior to delivery. I assume it could work the other way too.

(It's not common to switch engines but QR have an A332 with GE that was converted from PW.)


25 Post contains images Kappel : IIRC the GP frame has already flown with RR engines and was re-engined with the GP engines. They were supposed to be re-engined again before delivery
26 Post contains images Norcal773 : Tell that to LH CRAZY. Cough...cough...cough. But you ended up in GF's A332 huuh! Must have been your lucky day.
27 PM : I don't think so. Why would they do that?
28 Kappel : To expedite certification for the a380 and the GP engine was available later. That was the original plan, I don't know if they still did it.
29 Cedarjet : I've used the LGW to AUH service to get to Iran, and every time, the plane was empty. The plane in question, btw, is the 777-300. Didn't make a lot o
30 CHRISBA777ER : Really? Blimey - I had no idea that was even possible. Anyone got any more info?
31 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Yah....but I don't know how much money cargo can be made up with only 40... You just wait brother..you're going down...
32 Emirates773ER : You are right, going from AUH to DXB in this hot whether is just not worth it, did rather take EK and get it over with.
33 Post contains images CV580Freak : You are right there about the heat and that cuts out the benefit of AUH vs a mega airport like DXB. At least the 25 mile walk through DXB is air condi
34 Post contains images Emirates773ER : Plus you get to shop around in the "worlds best duty free". But in actuality getting a flight with EK from DXB-LHR can be quite a experience, it took
35 Post contains images CV580Freak : Booked my September DXB/LHR today and already nearly fully booked
36 David_itl : LHR-AUH in May 2007 = 20859 pax, up 5722. However, LGW-AUH in May 2006 saw 6467 pax, so effectively LON-AUH is down 745 pax. For comparison MAN-AUH =
37 Emirates773ER : I still have to make a final decision and buy my september ticket, its gonna be tough.
38 Post contains images Lightsaber : It is major work. But if you're ripping out wiring anyway (as you must in a prototype)... the pylon structural mount points do not change. Since the
39 Post contains images PM : (You have to be either very sure of yourself or very foolish to argue with Lightsaber (!) so let me just pose this as a question.) You're saying that
40 Post contains images Lightsaber : Yes. Odd isn't it... but in order to get the airframe certified quickly, the business decision was made by Airbus to build it RR and convert it to GP
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