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DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website  
User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8287 times:

This is the Delta News Release:
http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10752

This is the "NextGatewayToChina" website:
http://www.nextgatewaytochina.com/

The site looks pretty good, folks.

“Delta will demonstrate to the Department of Transportation that nonstop flights between the world’s largest passenger gateway in Atlanta and one of the world’s fastest growing economies in Shanghai is the best choice for American consumers and businesses,” said Delta Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst. “As Delta continues its ongoing international expansion, we want to be the world’s first airline to link the 65 million people of the Southeastern United States who currently lack convenient access to China directly with emerging markets of the Far East.”

[Edited 2007-06-21 20:59:32]

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8194 times:

Quoting GlobalATL (Thread starter):

Thanks. I just added my name to the petition. ATL is the best new gateway to China and should be awarded the route by the DOT.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8143 times:

Yup, my name has been added to the petition. C'mon guys! Help out the Big "D"

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8143 times:

Added as soon as the site went up.

C'mon big D, get us to China!



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8065 times:

DL certainly deserves to fly to China - they've been waiting for awhile. But the arguments that they use for ATL still aren't that convincing. There are many other areas of the country which have O&D that warrants service by a US-based flag carrier, but do not yet have any service (LAX, SEA, and BOS being notable examples, as well as NYC in the case of PVG). Additionally, DL erraneously states that the Southeast is the only portion of the country without nonstop service to China, but the Pacific Northwest has no service to China as well (and has much larger O&D numbers than ATL). And for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

DL's proposal certainly is better than some of the other ones that I've heard thrown around (such as DFW-PEK and PHL-PEK, and even more service from ORD), but the West Coast is still underserved to China despite having the most O&D. Atlanta provides the feed, but doesn't have the O&D traffic. I guess it's really more a frustration with US carriers in general that they want to add flights to places that have no demand to/from China, overflying places with lots of demand and forced connections.

DL will probably get ATL-PVG simply because they're the one left out as it stands now. But I wish they'd have gone for LAX or NYC instead.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

Wesites like this are becoming the norm.......all four of the carriers who applied for China service did it last year and each gathered tens of thousand of ""signatures"".....did it influence the decision? Who knows?

In any case, DL does seem to have the strongest case for new service from a carrier that currently does not serve China. US is gonna apply........and, as discussed once before, Hawaiian plans to make a big ""to do"" in an attempt to launch a Honolulu-CHina service. Are either HA or US real competition, I dont think so, but you never know.....when governmental agencies are involved, you can never be sure of the result.

Good luck to Delta with their application.


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
And for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

Because it's generally an hours flight or less from many major Southeast markets to ATL, as opposed to two to three hours to ORD, NYC, IAD etc. It cuts down on the travel time. Also, DL is generally the #1 carrier in numerous communities across the South, so they would be tapping into a larger passenger base.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7846 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 1):
ATL is the best new gateway to China and should be awarded the route by the DOT.

I think ATL along with DFW and ORD are the next group of cities US-DOT wants to see added to the U.S.-China mix.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
DL will probably get ATL-PVG simply because they're the one left out as it stands now. But I wish they'd have gone for LAX or NYC instead.

The problem with LAX of NYC-JFK is that all three of the big Chinese carriers offer flights to these U.S. world gateways. Even CO and EWR face this issue as well, which is why I don't see them getting such a route authority until later rather than soon on such a route despite the technical merits they assert. I don't see any route authorities going to a U.S. flag carrier from either of these until probably after 2015 or so, perhaps sooner if the Chinese within their U.S. bilateral agree to an amendment to speed up U.S. flag carrier route authorities. After the three I mentioned above, I think the next most likely cities will be SEA and BOS since they have large Chinese-American and Chinese immigrant populations with subsequent business O&D from the U.S. to the Chinese mainland.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7787 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 6):
Because it's generally an hours flight or less from many major Southeast markets to ATL, as opposed to two to three hours to ORD, NYC, IAD etc. It cuts down on the travel time. Also, DL is generally the #1 carrier in numerous communities across the South, so they would be tapping into a larger passenger base.

That's true, but how many of these communities really have that many people going to China? And in most cases, even though it's an hour more to ORD, it's an hour less from ORD to China. So it's really a wash. Not disagreeing with you, but still just wondering if these situations make the case for precious China slots - I'm not sure they do.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
After the three I mentioned above, I think the next most likely cities will be SEA and BOS since they have large Chinese-American and Chinese immigrant populations with subsequent business O&D from the U.S. to the Chinese mainland.

Well, they would be the most logical - but probably by Chinese carriers before US-based ones. US carriers seem to have an aversion to operating anything outside of their hubs, and things seem to be getting worse in this regard than better. BOS certainly deserves service to Asia anyhwere, let alone China. But no US carrier seems to be willing to try it out. And in the case of SEA, it seems that NW would be the only likely candidate, but they've already indicated that they want to start any China flights from MSP or DTW only (which is all but useless to SEA passengers). With that in mind, a direct flight to China is the Port of Seattle's biggest goal right now, so I'm sure they'll be able to persuade one of the Chinese carriers to come in during the next few years.

BOS and SEA are unique in that they're big cities with lots of international O&D, but are underserved by US flag carriers because they aren't in good hub domestic hub locations (despite being excellent international hub locations).


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7764 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
BOS and SEA are unique in that they're big cities with lots of international O&D, but are underserved by US flag carriers because they aren't in good hub domestic hub locations (despite being excellent international hub locations).

The proximity of BOS to NYC and SEA to YVR is what has held them back internationally respectively.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7680 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

Bingo. ATL is a terrible geographic location for USA-Asia hubbing. The only worse locations I can think of would be PHX. Or MIA...

ORD, DTW or PHL kick the pants off ATL in terms of "connecting the SE to Asia" because they don't limit themselves to that. They also serve the Northeast or Texas... you know, places where the Asians and the businessmen are located.

Also, SEA would be a great location to funnel all of California plus the Seattle locals directly to PVG or PEK. NRT still works fine, as well.

All of this is to suggest that the ATL service would actually help very few people. Lexington Kentucky to China is 500 miles farther through ATL than DTW. That doesn't sound very convenient! Delta acts like the reverse is true, but that is a lie. The SE has nothing to gain from an ATL China flight... instead, they should lobby for NW at DTW.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7621 times:

I'm there... showing this to as many people as I know have internet connections.

Definitely want DL to win next time, and "correct" the quasi-injustice that was ORD winning a 2nd frequency.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

Actually ATL is situated pretty nice. It would serve all of South America, the Carribean, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana all the way up to Noth Carolina...which is plenty to fill a 77L.

User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Just added my name...hopefully this and more china service will see DL metal in the next few years.

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

The only people who think ATL is a good geographic hub for China service are people who like DL.

I can't think of any other reason to support it.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7275 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
That's true, but how many of these communities really have that many people going to China?

I am betting this flight if awarded to DL will be mainly Chinese nationals using it. China is a fast growing country. I am sure there are businesses in the southeast US that deal with China daily and this will facilitate travel amongst those companies. The world has gotten a lot smaller over these last few years and just because a business is located in the US southeast does not mean they cannot have dealings with China.

Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal. Chinese people are making much better wages and you can bet just like the Japanese fly all the way to Orlando, so will the Chinese.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7221 times:

Quoting B777ER (Reply 15):
Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal. Chinese people are making much better wages and you can bet just like the Japanese fly all the way to Orlando, so will the Chinese.

PVG-ORD-MCO 8062 miles
PVG-DTW-MCO 8094 miles
PVG-ATL-MCO 8063 miles


Looks to me that flying through ORD to get from PVG to MCO is actually shorter than ATL! Certainly the idea that flying to MCO via ATL will "cut down on travel time" is best saved for the land of fantasy. I'll stick with the land of reality, which says that ATL is a terribly positioned hub for China connections.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7217 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
Actually ATL is situated pretty nice. It would serve all of South America, the Carribean, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana all the way up to Noth Carolina...which is plenty to fill a 77L.

Latin American connections won't be taken into consideration by the DOT, nor should they. Flights to China are very limited, and the DOT is most concerned about opening up the USA-China market.

Quoting B777ER (Reply 15):
Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal.

China has a Disneyland as well  Smile


User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):


PVG-ORD-MCO 8062 miles
PVG-ATL-MCO 8063 miles

Looks to me that flying through ORD to get from PVG to MCO is actually shorter than ATL! Certainly the idea that flying to MCO via ATL will "cut down on travel time" is best saved for the land of fantasy. I'll stick with the land of reality, which says that ATL is a terribly positioned hub for China connections.

Yeah, that one mile difference will save you a lot of time.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7118 times:

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 18):
Yeah, that one mile difference will save you a lot of time.

The point of me posting you that is to show that ATL offers no benefits over ORD and DTW, and ORD and DTW offer better China connections to many more areas of the country than ATL does.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7096 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 14):
I can't think of any other reason to support it.

You can satisfy your ignorance in this regard by actually reading the information on the website which shows compelling, logical reasons why DL would be the best NEW entrant for service to China, not to mention all of those supporters listed who may or may not like DL. Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7074 times:

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 20):
You can satisfy your ignorance in this regard by actually reading the information on the website which shows compelling, logical reasons why DL would be the best NEW entrant for service to China, not to mention all of those supporters listed who may or may not like DL. Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.

I've read the website, and its just pro-Delta drivel. I like DL, but anyone claiming that ATL is a good geographic hub for China service is drinking a little too much Kool-Aid.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7058 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 21):
but anyone claiming that ATL is a good geographic hub for China service is drinking a little too much Kool-Aid.

I see no reason why ATL-China wouldn't be as succesful as our ATL-NRT flight which is a cash cow and full almost all of the time. Also, early indications show our new ATL-ICN flights are doing outstanding.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7050 times:

Ok, then lets look logically at DL's arguments (taken from their website, my responses in italics):



Why Delta?

Delta is the largest U.S. carrier without nonstop service to China and would bring new competition as a new entrant to the Chinese market.
True, and as mentioned above, I think DL deserves a flight to China. ATL just isn't the best choice though

Delta serves more worldwide destinations than any other carrier.
How is this relevant for new flights to China? And why should it make a crappy proposal and better?

Delta'snew service will significantly improve access to China for customers in more than 150 destinations across the Eastern United States thanks to the extensive connections available at the world%u2019s largest airline hub in Atlanta.
Not true as pointed out above. Passengers in Florida and in the South will have the same, or longer, flight times if they go through ATL.

Delta is actively working with government, civic and business leaders in the U.S. and China to prepare for a new route by:
-Opening a third sales office in Shanghai recently;
-Helping the CAAC-Civil Aviation Authority of China write China's flight safety rules and regulations;
-Providing the Chinese technical aviation assistance in the areas of air traffic services and flight routing;
-Providing training to airline personnel in China, including pilots and air traffic controllers and providing support for flight dispatch and flight planning;
-Participating in the ACP-Aviation Cooperation Program, a collaborative U.S. government-commercial organization providing technical support and assistance to the China's airlines and aviation authorities;
-Working with numerous Chinese organizations to lay the groundwork for a successful service launch;
-Attending relevant conferences and workshops on China-U.S. air service;
-Assisting in the establishment of a consular office for China in Atlanta.
-Delta would provide daily nonstop service between Atlanta and Shanghai using its flagship Boeing 777 aircraft in a two-class configuration featuring BusinessElite, Delta%u2019s award-winning business class service.
-Delta plans to introduce fully horizontal lie-flat seats on its Boeing 777 fleet beginning in 2008, with a new in-seat entertainment system offering on-demand, digital video and music at every suite and a reclining seat that adjusts to multiple comfort positions, including a completely flat surface that offers customers a 6-foot 3-inch bed
Good that DL is improving its service. But the DOT doesn't care. And it's good that DL is wining and dining the Chinese government - but as a China gateway, ATL is still a loser.




Why Atlanta?

Delta's flagship hub at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport is the world's largest airline hub.
True, but it's shown that it can't always support every market based on that fact alone

Delta and Delta Connection carriers offer more than 1,000 peak-day departures to 257 nonstop destinations from Atlanta; more nonstop flights and destinations than any airline hub in the world.
True, but how many people are going to connect to an ATL-PVG route from places like LAX, MSP, BOS, or TLV? How many of these flights are actually realistic connections?

Delta's Atlanta hub is one of the fastest growing international gateways in the U.S., with more than 20 new international markets added in the last year.
So what? Doesn't improve the argument for China. Only the Latin American markets would connect, but those aren't the priority of the DOT.




Why the Southeastern United States?

The Southeastern United States is the only region in the country without nonstop service to China.
Not true. The Pacific Northwest doesn't have any either. Nor do the Mountain States.

Delta'service would link the more than 65 million people of the Southeast directly to one of the world%u2019s fastest growing economies.
Ok, that's true, but these 65million other people have other options that currently exist today. And there are other cities which could link these same 65M people with more benefit to the local market.


-The Southeast region of the US exported $10,469,647,524 worth of products to China in 2006, accounting for 19% of total US 2006 exports to China. (U.S. Department of Commerce)
-There are 77 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in the Southeast, including 13 in metro Atlanta.
-There are 22 metro areas in the Southeast that were named to Expansion Magazine%u2019s 2007 America%u2019s 50 Hottest Cities list for business expansion or relocation.
-According to Area Development magazine%u2019s 2006 Annual Corporate Survey, of which 80% of respondents are with manufacturing companies, the South is the first choice for the location of their new domestic facilities:
-Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Mississippi are the leading choices for the respondents%u2019 new domestic facilities (20%).
-Another 10% of respondents said they would locate their new domestic facilities in North Carolina, South Carolina or West Virginia.
-42% of respondents said they planned to locate their new foreign facilities in Asia, with the bulk of facilities in China (59%).
All decent points, but they still fail to say how ATL would improve existing service. And they ignore the fact that there isn't any O&D to China from ATL as it currently stands


Back to Top



Why Shanghai?

-With a population of 14,503,000, Shanghai is the largest city of the People's Republic of China and the 9th most populous metropolitan area in the world.
-Widely regarded as the center of China's modern economy, the city also serves as one of the most important cultural, commercial, financial, industrial and communications centers of China.
-Shanghai is often regarded as the center of finance and trade in China.
-Shanghai is the transportation center for China, providing passengers convenient connections to other destinations domestically within China and/or regionally within Asia.
-Pudong International Airport in Shanghai is the second busiest airport in China.
-The tallest structure in China, the distinctive Oriental Pearl Tower, is located in Shanghai.
-Known as "the Oriental Paris," Shanghai is one of the best places to shop in all of China..
Not really much to rebut here, except to point out that DL would still be going for PEK if it hadn't been awarded to UA from IAD. DL wanted PEK before that award, but now has realized that PVG is its only option if it wants to be successful.


Look, DL could be very successful to China. It's just that as far as China is concerned, ATL is a loser destination. As pointed out above, it doesn't save anyone any time except for those living in ATL (and there aren't many of them who want to go to China). Sure, DL could probably make the flight work with connections from Latin America and the Southeast - but should that really take precedence over communities that have the O&D traffic as it is today? And why should people in places like NYC and BOS be forced to connect just so DL can have rights to fly to China? If there were open skies then it would be more power to DL, but it isn't, and an ATL flight ignores most of the country.

LAX, NYC, ORD, DTW, BOS, SEA, PHL, IAD, SFO all are better hubs for this service. I don't see how anyone can argue with a straight face that ATL-PVG is a more important route than EWR/JFK, DTW, or LAX.

See - logical people can still come to a conclusion that this proposal doesn't make any sense. When UA was awarded IAD service, the DOT cited the strong O&D traffic, larger capacity of a 747, and connectivity within China. DL won't have any of those things.


User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7045 times:

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 20):
Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.

What do you mean? rational? A committee of civil servants?  Yeah sure


25 RwSEA : It would likely be successful, but would it provide easier access to China than the competing applications? Nope. Any carrier can start service to th
26 Post contains images B777ER : Factor in the standard 60-90 minute delay at ORD and there is your time savings.
27 DL Widget Head : You bet ya. I can think of scores of cities that an ATL-China service provides easier access than from any city now serving China or proposed. Your s
28 DAL767400ER : Just look at the competing applications (as they appear to be currently), which are limited to this being a round for new entrants: Hawaiian wants to
29 Post contains links Panamair : I think that DL has invested so much into using ATL as the gateway for its first PRC route that it is too late (even before the launch of this website
30 Zsx81 : Wow what the hell is DL thinking flying to NRT and ICN along with KE from ATL? ORD ALREADY HAS SERVICE TO CHINA! DTW HAS SERVICE TO CHINA VIA NRT ON
31 GlobalATL : Give it a rest bud.....ATL is another option for the traveling public whether you agree with ATL or not.
32 Dutchjet : Hawaiian's arguement is two-fold: first, it could increase tourism to Hawaii, creating jobs and the like and the route would open up Hawaii to China,
33 SLCUT2777 : The biggest problem for SEA is that all the big-3 Chinese carriers have service to YVR just up I-5 or a quick QX or AC/Jazz flight. I think SEA is li
34 ConcordeBoy : See, here's the thing-- bias is a bitch, particularly when it's turned right back at you using the inanity that is bureaucracy. Let's have a look, sh
35 2travel2know : Then if SEA wants a Chinese airline, they should woo a Viva Macao or similar.. Now that's very interesting since there are no HKG/MFM/CAN area - SEA
36 Commavia : I really don't know why Delta is ever bothering. While I understand that this is probably a requisite for P.R. purposes, and it is good to have a nice
37 Dutchjet : I gotta ask.........how would flying to China via ANC help Delta's application? How would DL or its pax benefit from a stopover in ANC? (Note that ye
38 Flighty : Delta should unveil a religious faith-based strategy for winning PVG. They should explain ATL-PVG fulfills something in the Bible that must be done t
39 2travel2know : Aren't route authorities granted on the basis of airport/city/state needs? I'm reading how HA wants to fly to China and all the possibilities HNL cou
40 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-off...-departure-airportsOctober2006.asp http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-off...ed-arrival-airportsOctober2006.asp D
41 Dutchjet : Hawaiian Airlines (and the state of Hawaii) hope to get the China flight in an effort to boost tourism to the state of Hawaii.........Hawaii is a hug
42 Post contains links DL021 : Here's the email I just got on this....although I'd signed up earlier today on the petition. It appears that DL is using the old Keep Delta My Delta m
43 B777ER : This should be interesting then. All sepculation for the next 3 years could be over in the next few months then. Sounds like the DOT just wants to be
44 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : I think SLC is currently the only year around destination from ANC via DL. If I recall correctly ATL is seasonal only. I would think that both HNL an
45 DL777LAX : I still stand by what I said months ago that DL really should be trying for LAX-PVG. That would show some serious commitment to LAX, and jump start th
46 Cslusarc : I think that DL has a hard battle to fight to get its first mainland China frequency. I don't think that DL will be ready to start a daily nonstop ATL
47 Flighty : What about SLC-PVG? It could get feed from almost the entire West.
48 Post contains images Vega : Not unless the 340-500 is longer and heavier than a 747-400 True, however, don't forget the route must now be started THIS year under the recently re
49 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : While I can understand your sentiments, US-DOT would look past that application very quickly in that service is already in place to/from LAX, althoug
50 Post contains images DAL767400ER : One could only hope. Given how slow the DOT can be, this certainly could only speed up things. The endaround taxiway was only opened last month or so
51 Flighty : See, that's how I feel about ATL. I mean, let's have AA come back and trumpet the Texarcana-DFW-PEK connection some more! That was funny!! The South
52 Post contains images RwSEA : That might be true, but I'm starting to think the others are better. As said, Hawaiian would open up tourism from China, while PHL would be more conv
53 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Thank You!!! It never ceases to amaze me how many armchiar CEO or COO wanna-be's spew from the mouth on these boards. Classic example: This poster-(d
54 DL777LAX : I suppose, but even still, A huge portion of traffic to China originates in California. California has more demand to China then the rest of the coun
55 ConcordeBoy : ...k, figured it out yet? Correct
56 Notdownnlocked : Well the big news here according to the Monday or Tuesday Aviation Daily is that Delta will have about a 100% chance of getting the new route. Hawaiia
57 Bobnwa : Watch out who you are tangling with. He does not like to be challenged.
58 Flighty : That has no importance to 5 million people in PHL who must fly to NYC or IAD to take those flights. They're not within driving distance. PHL is the l
59 Dutchjet : Pretty broad statement....... PHL lacks service to Asia, period. Sorry, I must ask, why should everyone is the southern half of the US be obligated t
60 Bobnwa : Because on the great circle route, the flight from most southern cities would end up flying right over a northern hub. ie: ATL-PVG would go right ove
61 Dutchjet : I understand the geography part. So you too agree that there should be NO flights from anywhere in the Southern US to China (or Asia)?
62 Flighty : Bobnwa has it right. Yes, certainly. If we only had a few South America slots, they should be placed in the South. To place them in the North would b
63 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : As was United Airlines Capitol to Capitol website.. Yes, and they have already started to arrive ala JL, NW, and KE. HA has service to West Coast cit
64 Bobnwa : I agree that the flights should give the greatest benefit to the most people. If only a few slots are available, then a hub in the north serves that
65 Post contains images Dutchjet : And conveniently, NW has two hubs in the northern US. But, this time around, its new entrants only, thus we are likely to see a China route out of AT
66 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : Well, that is to the benefit of NWA.. A business plans that works! Additional 777 equipment is arriving next year along with the roll out of the new
67 SESGDL : The number of connections that can be made through ATL to China are huge. You'd be surprised about the number of people who fly DCA-ATL-NRT or LGA-AT
68 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : There are 16 carriers, passenger (combo) and cargo. Someone alluded to HA and US stepping out of the race, but they're still listed in the overall ra
69 DL777LAX : Even if PHL had all this O/D to China, and would be as efficient of a place as EWR or IAD, the fact is its only a very short commuter hop to EWR or IA
70 Notdownnlocked : Is this confirmed........will DL be alone in applying for the 2007 authority? And, can DL come up with a plan to free up a 777 to fly the route witho
71 DAL767400ER : No, as alluded to in reply 68. No, their 777 services would definitely be impacted. Seeing as how they want China service to be daily, DXB would have
72 Notdownnlocked : Remem Remember there are not 16 carriers in this race. This years (2007) award with the newly amended treaty is for an airline that does NOT currently
73 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...that ain't Plan-A, it's much more creative That's not entirely true, DL was in discussions with two Asian carriers re: Trent-powered 772ERs. Cycle
74 Dutchjet : As you pointed out, forget about the used 777 market, there is nothing available (just ask CO).......could DL downgrade ATL-TLV to a 763ER temporaril
75 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Surprisingly soon delivery slots for what currently is still a UFO order on Boeing's order page? Let me guess, one is a carrier that can't even fill
76 Post contains links SFORunner : http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/23/business/story03.html Hawaiian Airlines has decided against applying for one of the new air routes being opened up
77 ChiGB1973 : Presumably and strongly inclined in reference to a new carrier and combination carrier. The point was that no airline in the running, no matter the o
78 SLCUT2777 : The NIMBY's in San Diego are forcing more people to actually go north to LAX than vice-versa, but thats another argument for another thread. You'll a
79 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...gettin' warmer, but still not quite there. Sadly, I have my doubts that they'll be able to pull it off. How intuitive of you
80 Scorpy : So I suppose they may be negotating to take frames that were destined for another carrier.
81 Delta4eva : I'm guessing that they will take some delivery slots set up for AF. How many 773s does AF still have on order?
82 Cslusarc : From the DOT order: "2007 - one additional airline may be designated to operate combination services between the United States and China. Seven combi
83 Womack17 : Normally I would be excited for DL to get the service, but currently I am royally p*ssed at them. I lost all my SKymiles because I did not add any add
84 Scorpy : I wouldn't go oneworld if i were you. I was trying them and the FF programs blow. star seems a whole lot better.
85 DAL767400ER : Well, the AI/DL appears to be off, so it has to be another carrier. Given their current pilot shortage PIA would've been a factor, but then again the
86 Bobnwa : Didn't we understand that NWA is not part of this route case, so that it really doesn't matter where its hubs are.
87 Dutchjet : Yes we did understand......and where NW maintains its hubs in the United States is of little consequence for this or any other China proceeding as NW
88 Flighty : The northeast IS underserved to China. It needs a lot more flights. I agree with you. This ATL-PVG flight would largely serve New York, DC, Boston, P
89 Klwright69 : I bet the folks at CO are gladly sighing relief at the fact that DL is not going after JFK-PVG at this time. NYC to China is currently their baby (in
90 Bobnwa : What has Northwest Airlines got to do with the validity of DL ATL-China route application. I thought we were discussing this route case which in no w
91 Dutchjet : If DL does acquire NW, it could have everything to do with it, but thats a whole other story. (Seriously, I hope that the airlines dont merge). But I
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