Emirates777 From Tanzania, joined Feb 2000, 655 posts, RR: 3 Posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3990 times:
As a result of the revised bilateral between India and Dubai, Emirates will increase frequencies and aircraft size on its Indian services.
New Destination: Ahmedabad (AMD)
Effective 28 October, Emirates will commence 6x weekly flights to Ahmedabad (AMD). Flight timings (Daily ex-Tue):
EK538 DEP DXB 2255 ARR AMD 0310
EK539 DEP AMD 0425 ARR DXB 0610
Flights will be operated by A330-200 on Mon, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sun. The Saturday flight will be operated by a B777-200.
Other highlights:
DXB-BOM moves upto a 3x daily from 19x weekly. Also aircraft size is increased to a B777-300ER on most flights, with the B777-200ER operating a few.
DXB-MAA moves upto a double-daily from 8x weekly.
DXB-HYD moves upto 11x weekly from 8x weekly.
DXB-COK moves upto a 10x weekly from 7x weekly.
The additional frequencies will be phased in over the next few months and most increases implemented by the end of October 2007.
Although there are no increases on DEL services, the new agreement will permit capacity increases from the start of the summer 2008 schedule (end of March 2008) and beginning of July 2008. I would expect DEL to move upto 10x weekly from end of March 2008 and then upto a double-daily by beginning of July 2008.
Entitlements on the other India routes (TRV, CCU and BLR) remained unchanged. Remember, Emirates will add a 6th weekly to CCU from beginning of February 2008.
The frequency increases and new flights to AMD have been clearly well timed to connect with Emirates' new North American services - IAH and YYZ as well as existing JFK flights.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
Who will unfortunately suffer is Kuwait Airways as their market share from AMD will fall as they fly 3 times a week only using an A 320. Not only will the pax load factor be very high but cargo will be full too year round as the state of Gujrat is India's 2nd most crop producing exporting state after Punjab. The AMD route for EK will be like Lagos-LOS for them i.e. profitable within the first 6 months of starting operations!!!
Since BOM is getting the B 77Ws, will it have the new F & J class product which YYZ will see?
Jimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3806 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 2): Who will unfortunately suffer is Kuwait Airways as their market share from AMD will fall as they fly 3 times a week only using an A 320.
Kuwait Airways is planning to suspend service to India in protest of Indian authority didn't allow them to increase capacity and frequencies like UAE gets.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3718 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 3): Kuwait Airways is planning to suspend service to India in protest of Indian authority didn't allow them to increase capacity and frequencies like UAE gets.
Does anyone know why the GoI did this ( to UAE but to Kuwait)?
Hi there... I was thinking of going to BOM soon and the flights are operated by a mixutre of both A330-200 and 777-300 (non-ER)... That means that they have the old F and J products. I am not sure if BOM will be getting the -ER type, but I assume the new -ER's are going to more premium destinations such as Europe, Ausralia, and North America instead of shorter high-pax routes such as India. Thats just my assumption.
Emirates777 From Tanzania, joined Feb 2000, 655 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
A correction to the above post -- CCU will get a 7th weekly flight (not 6th as mentioned in my first post) from beginning of February 2008.
Actually AMD will most likely move up to a daily or 8 weekly by April 2008. Yes, this route will be a cash cow for Emirates. They have been trying to get access for a while and the flights offer very good connectivity to the Gujju's living in US and UK, who tend to be frequent travellers back to AMD. Many are also settled or have a DXB base so from a convenience standpoint it should also work well. In fact the wish list in this most recent round also asked for Pune but they didnt get access. Also as far as BOM goes, Emirates wants to add another 2 daily frequencies - giving a total of 5x daily. But that will have to wait for the time being. The BOM route will likely be operated by a mixture of the 3 different B77W configurations.
UAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3430 times:
This issue of increasing flights between UAE & India was discussed between the Prime Ministers of both countries.
The UAE delegation was asking for an open skies agreement between India and UAE, the Indian prime minister was under pressure because the Indian carriers didn't like the open skies idea, while the UAE is a strategic partner to India.
He decided to give more frequencies at the mean time and to review the open skies proposal submitted by UAE.
Karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2784 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3387 times:
Quoting Emirates777 (Reply 6): Also as far as BOM goes, Emirates wants to add another 2 daily frequencies - giving a total of 5x daily. But that will have to wait for the time being. The BOM route will likely be operated by a mixture of the 3 different B77W configurations.
Is there that much demand and to which bank of departures will EK connect these to.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3271 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 3): Kuwait Airways is planning to suspend service to India in protest of Indian authority didn't allow them to increase capacity and frequencies like UAE gets.
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4781 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3250 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 3): Kuwait Airways is planning to suspend service to India in protest of Indian authority didn't allow them to increase capacity and frequencies like UAE gets.
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9): I would never believe this for the life of me !!!
I don't put it past them to make such a move. I actually feel for them as India's attempt to get cummy with the UAE is genuinely unfair to the Kuwaitis in this instance. But by the same token money talks, something the Kuwaitis should be acutely aware of by now.
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 8):
Is there that much demand and to which bank of departures will EK connect these to.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3088 times:
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 7): He decided to give more frequencies at the mean time and to review the open skies proposal submitted by UAE.
I hope open skies comes through eventually. However, Indian private carriers must be allowed to fly this route before open skies is agreed to.
Ek-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 160 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2807 times:
This is good news, however it seems that India's neighbour Pakistan isn't as generous to EK.
Flights to Lahore and Islamabad seem to be capped for EK.
What I dont understand is how can a relatively new carrier like EY have more flights to these cities and correct me if im wrong QR also have more services to this part of Pakistan than EK.
EIther EK aren't pushing this with the government or they can up the frequency but dont want to.
I have posted this question before, but not had much of a definitive response.
I would love to know what their strategic aims/objectives are to serving Pakistan.
I know they have 4+ daily services to KHI but the real demand is LHE and ISB.
I have travelled from MAN to LHE 18 times in the last 10 years or so and each time the flights are full ex DXB to LHE.
I also wonder if EK will introduce a 3rd daily am flight from MAN to DXB as these flights are also full for most of the year.
Emirates777 or anyone elses input would be much appreciated.
BigTom From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2006, 594 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2779 times:
The Kuwait-India dispute is basically because the Kuwaitis want their LCC, Jazeera, to gain more access to Indian routes, most of which are being operated through their second hub in DXB. India's contention is that by operating out and through DXB they are benefiting enormously by siphoning off India-UAE traffic on these routes. The Kuwaitis have decided to get tough and threaten a ban of all India-Kuwait flights if Jazeera is not given more access. They generally are not of the inclination to negotiate with countries like India, who to them are mainly lowly labour suppliers. Let's see the fallout.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2687 times:
Quoting BigTom (Reply 13): They generally are not of the inclination to negotiate with countries like India, who to them are mainly lowly labour suppliers. Let's see the fallout.
I'm sure the Indian government will play hardball here and I'm sure the Kuwaiti's won't mind if the low-cost travel all moves to Air Arabia...
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6873 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2673 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 11): I hope open skies comes through eventually. However, Indian private carriers must be allowed to fly this route before open skies is agreed to.
Not just this route but International routes, period. There are Indian carriers who want to fly to International destinations but can't because of a silly old rule that says a carrier must operate dometically for a good amount of years before being allowed to go international. I'm thinking of Kingfisher as an example. A lot of these passengers between India and DXB are connecting to N.America and Europe on EK. Those are the destinations that Kingfisher wants to fly to from India but the Indian government doesn't allow it, and EK is taking full advantage of it. They are building market share in India to the detriment of an Indian carrier, and all because of the stupid Indian government rules.
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4781 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2454 times:
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12): Emirates777 or anyone elses input would be much appreciated.
While I can't say the Pakistanis are stonewalling EK I do know that they are made to work hard for access. In fact EK pays the runway maintenance costs at Peshawar.
As for EY and QR getting an easier ride, Abu Dhabi has closer relations with Pakistan as does QR (as can be seen by their aircraft donations)
Quoting BigTom (Reply 13): They generally are not of the inclination to negotiate with countries like India, who to them are mainly lowly labour suppliers. Let's see the fallout.
The Kuwaitis are the worst offenders of this type of thinking in the GCC. I say let them continue to be arrogant soon enough Kuwait will be nothing where as India will be a giant.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12): im wrong QR also have more services to this part of Pakistan than EK.
you're mistaken...QR has only 2 weekly LHE + 3 weekly ISB flights compared to EK's 4 weekly LHE + 5 weekly ISB flights.
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12):
EIther EK aren't pushing this with the government or they can up the frequency but dont want to. I have posted this question before, but not had much of a definitive response.
The main reason is the hard lobbying done by PIA to the Pakistan Govt to protect its Northern Pakistan market share from the on slaught from the Gulf carriers which have taken away a vast majority of its market share from its main hub i.e. KHI due to the city having an open skies policy.
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12): but the real demand is LHE and ISB.
actually the real "high yield"
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12): What I dont understand is how can a relatively new carrier like EY have more flights to these cities
vv hard for the Pak Govt to say NO to the King of UAE
Quoting Emirates777 (Reply 6): Also as far as BOM goes, Emirates wants to add another 2 daily frequencies - giving a total of 5x daily. Actually AMD will most likely move up to a daily or 8 weekly by April 2008.
I know why EK are doing this...they want to protect themselves and at the same time be well prepared & established in all the major Indian markets when the likes of 9W and Kingfisher fly to DXB nonstop from various Indian points from 2008 onwards. Imagine, any Indian carrier competing on the BOM-DXB route against EK's current 3 daily and in the future 5 daily nonstop flights!
EmiratesCPH From Denmark, joined Feb 2006, 86 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9): I would never believe this for the life of me !!!
India calls Kuwait's unilateral decision to block all flights unfair
New Delhi/Thiruvananthapuram: Kuwait's unilateral decision to ban all flights from India from July 1 is "unfair and uncalled for" and all issues must be mutually resolved, a spokes-person for the Indian civil aviation ministry said yesterday.
"We have a bilateral civil aviation agreement with Kuwait and further talks are on. So the matter should be resolved by mutual consultations. Such unilateral action, we feel, is unfair and uncalled for," the spokesperson said.
"This action is harmful to the interests of the travellers of both countries," the spokesperson added, as the travel trade industry in Kerala said that pressure tactics by Kuwait government would not yield any result.
Kuwait said two weeks ago that it would stop all flights to India with effect from July 1 since it says New Delhi was not honouring its commitment to allow more landing rights for its carriers.
Three flag carriers, state-run Air India, its low-cost subsidiary Air India Express and Indian, have been designated to fly to Kuwait, while the Gulf country has Kuwait Airways and Jazeera Airlines as its carriers to India. The two countries concluded their bilateral agreement in March last year under which they allowed 5,200 seats per week for the carriers of each side.
The Kuwaiti side requested the limits be raised to 6,800 seats per week.
The Kerala Association of Travel Agents (Kata) maintained that if the Kuwaiti government goes ahead with its decision, the real losers will be its own carriers, Kuwait Airways and Jazeera Airlines.
"They will have to pay huge fines to those passengers who have booked in advance," said Kata president K.V. Muraleedharan in Thiruvananthapuram.
"Since Air India and Indian operate to other airports in the Middle East they can make alternate arrangements for those passengers who are booked to travel to Kuwait. So they would not have any problem," he added.
Snehnath From India, joined Apr 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2200 times:
Quoting BigTom (Reply 13): They generally are not of the inclination to negotiate with countries like India, who to them are mainly lowly labour suppliers
This is the fourth thread I have seen you post this message. If you are trying to make the point that India is a country that only supplies cheap labor to Kuwait, you made it once. No need to repeat it four times.
IMHO, the Kuwaitis do understand India's relevance to the region as a potentially ravenous consumer of their energy supplies. And they also look with fear and respect at companies like Reliance Industries, who are have grown to be as large as some of their own downstream petrochemical companies like Equate, and more nimble than them.
Anyways, a compromise is due. Sometimes threats work, sometimes they don't.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2182 times:
Quoting Snehnath (Reply 19): Anyways, a compromise is due. Sometimes threats work, sometimes they don't.
As I have said, more EK flights means that EK will gain in the short-term, even though EK wants high-yielding onward passengers to Europe and America from India rather than the unskilled labour traffic.
BigTom From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2006, 594 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
Quoting Snehnath (Reply 19): This is the fourth thread I have seen you post this message. If you are trying to make the point that India is a country that only supplies cheap labor to Kuwait, you made it once. No need to repeat it four times.
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, the operative word there was " who to them". And that was only to put the whole issue in perspective. Anyways not everyone would have gone through all four threads and got upset, as you seem to be. Atleast no one else has complained so far.
As far as the Kuwait-India brouhaha goes, Kuwait Times carries a report that both parties are expected to settle things at a meeting on Wednesday.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2116 times:
Quoting BigTom (Reply 21): As far as the Kuwait-India brouhaha goes, Kuwait Times carries a report that both parties are expected to settle things at a meeting on Wednesday.
I guess this will end with Kuwait getting a bit more but not as much as they asked for.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10676 posts, RR: 100 Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1944 times:
First,
These new bilaterals are a nice boost to EK to/from India. However, what I noticed is that the seat caps do not really allow for A380's... yet.
They also are at low enough frequencies that it does not allow EK to do a "rolling hub" to India (connect from anywhere to a few select cities in India). Cest la vie.
Quoting Emirates777 (Thread starter):
New Destination: Ahmedabad (AMD)
Effective 28 October, Emirates will commence 6x weekly flights to Ahmedabad (AMD). Flight timings (Daily ex-Tue):
Is there a seat cap?
That is a little shy. Why 6X week... 8X allows for better connections (or is that why only 6X)?
Quoting Emirates777 (Thread starter): DXB-BOM moves upto a 3x daily from 19x weekly. Also aircraft size is increased to a B777-300ER on most flights, with the B777-200ER operating a few.
I doubt EK can meet DXB-BOM demand. This is a nice but small increase in seats.
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 7): He decided to give more frequencies at the mean time and to review the open skies proposal submitted by UAE.
Smart political move... However, it will be interesting to see if "open skies" is approved. If so... EK and EY will go nuts to/from India.
Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 12): This is good news, however it seems that India's neighbour Pakistan isn't as generous to EK.
Flights to Lahore and Islamabad seem to be capped for EK.
Otherwise the local airline is toast... Pakistan would do better to allow more EK/EK/QR and accept their the loss of domestic airline jobs in trade for the added jobs stimulated by air travel... but that makes too much sense.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 14): I'm sure the Indian government will play hardball here and I'm sure the Kuwaiti's won't mind if the low-cost travel all moves to Air Arabia...
What is Kuwait thinking? If you put India up against a wall... they'll riot! Kuwait is doing something very short sighted...
Quoting Cricket (Reply 20): As I have said, more EK flights means that EK will gain in the short-term, even though EK wants high-yielding onward passengers to Europe and America from India rather than the unskilled labour traffic.
Yes, EK wants connections with F and J more than the lowest cost Y. Ok... that's fine. They have a bit of a premium product. But what will happen long term?
Are other cities considered? And what about seats? Are there any cities added that weren't in EK's rights before?
I'm all for open skies... I wonder if Emirates/India would sign that... (Most aviation discussions with non-aviation fans end up discussing the lack of J seats to India.)
Lightsaber
Life is short, Live it!
25 Kevin777: Congrats to AMD. The improved terminal facilities could be ready by then I guess. Also, the new J and F products are better deployed on the longer ro
26 Lightsaber: That all depends on how long Pune's runway will be. (Note: I'm asking) Also, with BOM maxing out, I think we'll see a few flights there. EK? I don't
27 Sshank: EK will have upto 7299 seats per week to Mumbai starting winter 2007 - thats should allow for A380 operation is they want to trade gauge for frequenc
28 Kevin777: There is a bell ringing somewhere in my head regarding the rwy in Pune, but can't remeber whether it's the lenght or the general condition.. either w
29 Lightsaber: What, only 12X/week 644 seat A380's? There is a point to CASM, but not if connections are too compromised. Or is the idea to encourage "more seat all
30 EmiratesCPH: I wish that the GoP would understand that one sweet day....
31 Aarbee: I'll keep my fingers crossed. 3 hours tops.
32 Jacobin777: Even with EK running 4x/daily DXB-KHI-DXB services, PK has been able to upguage the route from a B737 to an A310..so it seems as if PK is doing ok on
33 Aarbee: I completely agree. And to a certain extent Qatar also (when they start their flights) From what I have read, EK has a much better product than KU. A
34 Jlk: This may be a little off-topic, but does anyone know where EK stands regarding its operation to SFO. Eager to see a better fare carrier from SFO to S.
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Otherwise the local airline is toast... Pakistan would do better to allow more EK/EK/QR and accept their the loss of domestic airline jobs in trade for the added jobs stimulated by air travel... but that makes too much sense. 
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