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1 Or 2 New A380 Customers To Be Announced "soon"  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 24815 times:

Quote:
Airbus, which has faced considerable setbacks in delivery of its A380 ‘superjumbo’, is close to agreeing deals with two airlines interested in purchasing the $300 million aircraft.

The European planemaker says that it is in negotiation with two further airlines, which have not previously placed orders for the plane, and that it will announce the deals by early 2008.



Quote:
“In the coming few months we can announce one or two new customers. We’re advancing in the negotiations. One [of the airlines] is in Europe; the other I can’t say anything about right now.”

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index...80-deals-in-the-pipeline&Itemid=73

Let the guessing start... for Europe I put my money on British Airways, the "we don´t tell you customer" should be from Asia IMO, I guess either Air India, Jet Aiways, China Airlines, Cathay Pacific or Asiana.

In addition it appears that there are deals for a further two A380 "Flying Palace" are already at advanced negotiation stages, apart from the first sale (though not officially confirmed so far). Wouldn´t that be a great opportunity to place the test frames to customers who don´t care so much about systems commonality as they will likely only purchase one frame, now that Etihad has shifted their order?

Quote:
However Abramovich is not likely to be the only private buyer of the super jumbo. Sources at the air show suggest that at least two other private buyers, both from the Middle East are both in final stages of talks with Airbus.

Airbus CEO John Leahy last night would only confirm that the buyer was "not from Europe or the US", according to The Mirror.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index...com_content&view=article&id=495002

[Edited 2007-06-24 12:00:23]

[Edited 2007-06-24 12:05:26]


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
207 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 24786 times:

I'd agree, BA is by far the most likely European customer - I simply cannot think of anyone else in Europe.

Asia is a bit more interesting; I tend to think it might be an Indian airline, either AI or Jet, but failing either of those, my vote would go to Asiana. I see CX as a more likely 747-8 customer, similarly CI, because both have a very strong cargo business, which would seem to favour the 747.


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 24772 times:

I have a feeing its British Airways from Europe. Or maybe even KLM since its closely tied with AirFrance.

AND the other one is: AIR INDIA



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 24712 times:

Thanks for the info, Flying Tiger, here are my guesses:

Europe:

BA is most likely
KL is possible
IB is possible
SU would be my wild guess. (Come one, Russia is growing like crazy with their oil and gas exports.)

Mysterious one:

Since the person telling is from the Middle East, I expect it to be from somewhere there, and not from North America. I'd put my money on SV, they are operating 747s and recently got some A320s (to train their pilots??)

Others in Asia are AI, 9W, CX, BR, CI, CA, MU, and OZ.

Waiting until early 2008? That's a loooong wait.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24662 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):

Let the guessing start... for Europe I put my money on British Airways, the "we don´t tell you customer" should be from Asia IMO, I guess either Air India, Jet Aiways, China Airlines, Cathay Pacific or Asiana.

In addition it appears that there are deals for a further two A380 "Flying Palace" are already at advanced negotiation stages, apart from the first sale (though not officially confirmed so far). Wouldn´t that be a great opportunity to place the test frames to customers who don´t care so much about systems commonality as they will likely only purchase one frame, now that Etihad has shifted their order?

I would not be at all surprised with this report being correct. Mr Tim Clark clearly stated that EK opted to order an additional 8 frames at Le Bourget because delivery slots will start to fill up once the A380 enters service.

Despite the A380 having gathered 17 orders in 2007, they are all from existing customers. With a further two airlines opting for the A380, it would give the program another breath of life and hopefully trigger additional order from existing option holder's (SQ, QF, LH, IT,KE) and new operators to join the program.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24595 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 3):
KL is possible
IB is possible

As far as I can recall, both of these airlines have ruled out the A380.

BA would be particularly interesting, not just in its own right, but in terms of the knock-on effect of the rest of the order. The airline has said that it is due to announce the first part of its major widebody order later this year (September); I wonder if the likely choice of the A380 will make it any easier for the A350 to be the selected type?

Conventional wisdom certainly suggests that the 777/787 combination is most likely, however, particularly since BA ordered another four 777-200ERs earlier this year.

Might BA do what AF did and use the 773ER and A380 to squeeze the 744 out of the fleet?


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7000 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24568 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
since BA ordered another four 777-200ERs earlier this year.

They actually went out of their way to emphasise that this small interim order would have no bearing on 'the Big One'!

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
Might BA do what AF did and use the 773ER and A380 to squeeze the 744 out of the fleet?

That's always been my guess. 777Ws, A380s and no place for the 748i.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24527 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
Might BA do what AF did and use the 773ER and A380 to squeeze the 744 out of the fleet?

BA ruled out 773ER. And they also said their 744 are not going just yet which means that they want to wait to see what comes out with A350-1000.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7000 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24508 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 7):
BA ruled out 773ER.

Really? I must have missed that. When?


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24493 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
Might BA do what AF did and use the 773ER and A380 to squeeze the 744 out of the fleet?



Quoting PM (Reply 6):
That's always been my guess. 777Ws, A380s and no place for the 748i.

If I had to speculate I would say that BA may opt for an A350-100/A388 combo to phase out their 747 fleet.

Why?

Both the A350 and A388 are equipped with RR.

The 77W and 748i are only equipped with GE

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24493 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
As far as I can recall, both of these airlines have ruled out the A380.

And? One can never rule out that they change their mind. (Or the people who ruled it out.)

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
BA would be particularly interesting, not just in its own right, but in terms of the knock-on effect of the rest of the order. The airline has said that it is due to announce the first part of its major widebody order later this year (September); I wonder if the likely choice of the A380 will make it any easier for the A350 to be the selected type?

Pretty much so. If they take the A380, they'll also get themselves all A350 versions and interim A330s, IMHO.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
Conventional wisdom certainly suggests that the 777/787 combination is most likely, however, particularly since BA ordered another four 777-200ERs earlier this year.

They said they would have taken A330s if it wasn't for the existing 777 fleet. However, their 744s and 777s are becoming older and older. Time to replace them with Airbus planes. BA is in no way committed to 777NG, 787, or 747-8I. My conventional wisdom suggests they can't go around getting A380s.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
Might BA do what AF did and use the 773ER and A380 to squeeze the 744 out of the fleet?

My guess would be A3510 and A388 to squeeze the 747 out. However, given how big BA is I wouldn't rule out that they'll also take 747-8s.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 9):
Both the A350 and A388 are equipped with RR.

The 77W and 748i are only equipped with GE

That is something I didn't even think about. Bad for you, GE.

[Edited 2007-06-24 12:48:39]

User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24433 times:

I dont think I was the only one to see this photo on the airbus widget

http://www.airbus.com/en/airbuslive/bourget-2007/img/getOptionMedia.htm?id=698



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24375 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
I dont think I was the only one to see this photo on the airbus widget

Ok... help me out... who am I seeing on that picture?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24350 times:

Cathay Pacific visiting the A380...


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 24350 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
I dont think I was the only one to see this photo on the airbus widget

You cheeky man. Why do I have a feeling that you know more than you are saying  Wink

Quoting Leskova (Reply 12):

Ok... help me out... who am I seeing on that picture?

Cathay Pacific CEO.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 24251 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 14):

You cheeky man. Why do I have a feeling that you know more than you are saying

Wings,

You should know that I have been berated numerous times on a.net for allegedly not knowing anything...why start now  cheeky 

I could stir things a little more by saying CX is also listed on the London Stock exchange, effectively also making it European...

But in all honesty, the official public company line is for no decision for several years.  tapedshut 



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 23948 times:

I found out that the best bases for predicting orders is to look at the airlines, their network requirements, environments, restrictions and ambitions. Then look at what aircraft are available, regardsless if it´s a Airbus, Boeing or Embraer.

Much less relevant prove quotes by analists, airline VIP´s and or Airbus / Boeing people. They mostly know exactly what they are saying, but also why they are saying things. Journalists / reporters even more. They (mostly) don´t make the news but choose what to / not to report more so..

Mostly it becomes pretty clear what they likely will order. That goes for BA, CX, KLM, UA, NW, JAl, DL, AA and many others.



http://www.airbus.com/en/myairbus/multimedialibrary/index_mmlib.jsp
Leahy had a busy week..

He went through some surgery & draw backs but worked like a lion to fix everything & this is his payday.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22696 times:
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Well if BA wants only RR power, then yes, that will put them into Airbus' camp on the top-end. Perhaps a mix of 787-8s, 787-9s, A350-900s, and A350-1000s with the A350-800. One advantage of an all A350 fleet would mean BA could restore four-class service fleet-wide, since the A350-800 would have the extra space to bring back FIRST which was lost on the 767-300 fleet during the last reconfiguration.

It appears that the A388 has the legs to do LAX/YVR-HKG, but if CX handles a lot of belly cargo, the A380 might not be the best choice since the 748I and 773ER both carry more.

I can't see OZ becoming an A388 operator (or a 748 operator, for that matter). They only have two 744 routes (ICN-ORD and ICN-LHR). I think they'll order an additional 77W and use both to replace their 744s.

I think AI will become an A388 customer. They fly a lot of people JFK-LHR-DEL/BOM and I can imagine IT wants a piece of that action, which is why they bought A380s. Now that AI is merging, that will consolidate more traffic onto them and require larger planes to handle it.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22594 times:

The EU customer could just as easily be a charter company. It doesn't have to be a network carrier. I think BA could use the A380, but deciding it is them by a "process of elimination" isn't the best way to go about it.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineParapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1664 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22509 times:

This BA order has huge implications. LH is the only airline to go for all 3 sizes of "large airliners". If BA do what everyone else has done and skip the middle bit then the 800I is a "gonner" IMHO. It will continue as a freighter without a doubt. But the numbers of airlines that need such an aircraft is diminishing. You can't build a passenger plane with just a 20 frame launch order (well you could but..). What it will do (if ba go for the A380 and the 787 or 350) will be to speed up Y3 - you know that 450 seater that they are test flying a scaled example of right now.

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22432 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I can't see OZ becoming an A388 operator (or a 748 operator, for that matter).

Actually, they've said they're looking at both, with a plan on ordering one of the two around the time frame mentioned here...


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22336 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):

They said they would have taken A330s if it wasn't for the existing 777 fleet.

..that's complete rubbish.....BA stated that part of the reason why they chose the B777 was because it was already in their fleet..not..."well, we would have preferred the A330, but since the B777 is already in our fleet, we'll go with that instead".....that isn't what happened.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1907 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22336 times:

BA in Europe, and i hope also KLM, IB i dont think so now, maybe in the future.

in Asia IMO will be more than 1, first one CX.

when the A380 will be in service with SIA there will be more orders, and new customers, many airlines are waiting to have some feed back about the airplanes but in zones like India and China this airplane have many options.


User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22242 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I can't see OZ becoming an A388 operator (or a 748 operator, for that matter). They only have two 744 routes (ICN-ORD and ICN-LHR). I think they'll order an additional 77W and use both to replace their 744s.

I agree. Actually there's a rumor that Asiana will lease two 77W later this year (1 in Nov, 1 in Dec) from GECAS. Those will replace 744s gradually.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 22123 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
They said they would have taken A330s if it wasn't for the existing 777 fleet.

..that's complete rubbish.....BA stated that part of the reason why they chose the B777 was because it was already in their fleet..not..."well, we would have preferred the A330, but since the B777 is already in our fleet, we'll go with that instead".....that isn't what happened.....

Well, it was pretty close:

Mr Boyle said that the initial order announced yesterday had been a "close decision" but had gone Boeing's way because BA already had 43 777s in its fleet, and assimilating a further eight was easier than purchasing a small number of A330s.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20070222/ai_n18627387


25 Jacobin777 : ..that's the quote which I was referencing also (just didn't bring it up)...but again, it doesn't say "we wanted the A330 or would have chosen the A3
26 Stitch : I know they have said that, but considering their current fleet and where they fly it, they'd need to triple to quadruple both the international dest
27 Olle : How many frames will Aurbus want to sell before they start to consider A380-900? It looks like the figures (CASM etc) is better or at least in line wi
28 Post contains images PlaneHunter : And which EU charter company could that be? PH
29 Post contains images Thorben : Can't you read? They said: The decision was won with a very small advantage of the 777, it was a "close decision". Fleet commonality is a big advanta
30 Flying-Tiger : Corsair aka Tuifly.com, already today operating 6 B747-400s in a 587-sea layout if I´m not completely mistaken. The fleet is mainly deployed to the
31 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Saying the A330 is a "better airplane" than the B777 is like saying the B737 is better than the A320... It absolutely depends on the mission profile.
32 Ikramerica : I wonder if "soon" means July 9th 2007? Steal a little Boeing thunder if someone like BA or CX did order the A380?
33 Karan69 : Rule out AI, they are not even looking at anything till 2012 timeframe, also their CMD has clearly stated that they find it difficult to fill 427 sea
34 Stitch : Really? I was under the impression they were stuffing those birds on the JFK-LHR-India routes. Thanks for the correction.
35 Wolbo : To deliberately make such an announcement on or directly after the date of the rollout of the 787 would be a pretty immature and cheap marketing ploy
36 EI321 : It would have a considerable publicity impact
37 Post contains links Karan69 : So was i mate, actually it came to me as quite a shock as well see for yourself, http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=164061
38 EI321 : I dont think there will be an AI order for the A380 for a while. I think Jet & Asiana are more likely.
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .."close decision" doesn't mean "we wanted the A330 but the B777 is in our fleet so we'll go with that instead"...close decision means "both the B777
40 RedChili : Well, Boeing did the same when the A380 had its first flight back in April 2005. Both the Air Canada and the Air India 777 and 787 orders were announ
41 EI321 : Could that european airline be any other than BA?
42 Keesje : That can´t be true. Boeing stands above that kind off marketing.
43 Zeke : Iberia, KLM, Alitalia....
44 EI321 : KLM maybe. I have wondered for a while if Corsair would end up ordering the A380. They operate high density 747s and the A380 would have really low C
45 Dallasnewark : They can't evel fill a 767 on majority of their routes, what makes you think they wouled need a A380. The order makes no sense I have a better guess,
46 Stitch : Open question - with a fleet of exactly two 744s (not 744Cs or 744Fs) doing a single daily R/T ICN-ORD and ICN-LHR, why would OZ buy two A388s?
47 Jacobin777 : ....the CEO of KL has already mentioned that they aren't interested in the A380 because there are only a small select routes where they could use it
48 Ikramerica : Understatement. BA ordering the A380 would be big news around the world. It could be BA. Read the statement again though, and Airbus is not as firm a
49 Post contains images Vincewy : How many seats would Corsair put in a single A380? Also earlier this year didn't SV announce plans to make a massive purchase? It's time some of the
50 FLYGUY767 : Europe British Airways Condor Iberia "I cant say anything about right now" US based airline?? DL - Would signal A380/A350 over 77W/787 UA - Would sign
51 Post contains images Mariner : That would probably please Mr. Aboulafia. He'd be able to jump all over it, saying it isn't a "blue chip" airline. mariner
52 EBJ1248650 : Personally, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Northwest is one of the customers for the A380. They operate in the Pacific regio
53 Post contains images Avianca : AZ, ever heard that they are nearly bankrupt ...? + beside MXP, FCO I do not see any route were they could use the baby... Condor??? for what routes.
54 Asiaflyer : J Leahy even mentioned AI by name last week when he (which surprised me) mentioned which airlines they are negotiating with at moment. AI seems to ha
55 PM : Didn't relations between Air India and Airbus hit rock bottom over the 777/787 deal? Are they now speaking to each other again?
56 Post contains links and images Asiaflyer : http://www.sharewatch.com/story.php?storynumber=440564 Leahy also confirmed today it was "in talks" with Lufthansa for the potential sale of A350, wit
57 Manni : While it's not the main reason, I've understood that the fact that KE has ordered the A380 certainly adds to the desire to purchase A380s. If they ge
58 Ikramerica : The Airbus middle east guy seems like he is talking about talks as if they are done deals, which is a tactic I've found is common in that region of t
59 Post contains links Mariner : Oh, take your pick. First he said that Airbus needed 100 firm orders for the A350: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601109&sid=aXpb7NA9H7Do&ref
60 PM : It's a mystery why anyone pays him in the first place. He's about as knowledgeable (as as unbiased) as the average A.Netter. Gosh - maybe he posts he
61 EI321 : Even Leahy calls it the SuperJumbo Now?
62 WINGS : SuperJumbo Yes WhaleJet No Regards, Wings
63 Post contains images Keesje : DL - Would signal A380/A350 over 77W/787 UA - Would signal A380/A350 over 748/787[/quote] I think DL and UA both have very large 767 fleets that need
64 DistantHorizon : About everyone calls it the Superjumbo. Except, naturaly, a few a-net members... Sorry guys. Whalejet didn't stick! DH
65 Post contains images Danny : Excellent research which confirms what I said before the airshow. Aboulafia is becoming more and more irrelevant with his "independent" comments.
66 Post contains links Keesje : In google news (articles of the last month) superjumbo gets 1400 hits, whalejet zero. http://news.google.com/news?um=1&tab=wn&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=whaleje
67 Manni : Absolut perfect research. The point is made!
68 Post contains images PM : Delta, yes : United, much less so these days. Nor would I. Nor would I rule out interim A330s...
69 CHRISBA777ER : There is more chance of enjoying a nice crushed ice Mojito in Hell than of that happening. Possibly - much more likely than DL, and they could defini
70 Karan69 : Mate i posted the article in reply 37 please go through it, honestly do not expect any A380 orders from the Indians till the Govt Aviation Policy bec
71 Art : " target=_blank>http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index...id=73 The way I read it is that one of the orders is the BA possibility. The other sounds more
72 Aerosol : Not only that - it will put an end to an discussion that is already a classic like: -When will NWA replace their DC-9's? -When will LH get PTVs in Ec
73 PM : Not more A343s?
74 CHRISBA777ER : They already have -313X type A340s, and the order would probably be for a replacement until they can get the A350 in 8 or 9 years. Cant help but thin
75 Stitch : Aye, but KE operates 24 744s to a good deal more places then LHR and ORD (and CDG) and appears to be splitting their replacement with A388s and 77Ws
76 CHRISBA777ER : KE has 77Ws on order? When did this happen?
77 PM : 28th December 2006. (You may have still been hungover from Christmas!)
78 RayChuang : I think it's likely the customer will be Cathay Pacific (CX). CX needs such a large plane for its flights from HKG to NRT, LHR, YVR/YYZ, LAX and SFO.
79 Stitch : Yes, but somebody up-thread noted CX carries belly cargo, which is not the A388's strength on trans-pac missions from (or especially to) HKG.
80 Columba : Corsair just acquired these 747-400s over the last 2 (?) yeasr and there were used aircraft, so it is very doubtful that they will buy new A380s. Con
81 Post contains images PM : How can something be both "doubtful" and "likely"?
82 Karan69 : Are there any specifics to that comapred to a 744/748 on the same route from HKG?? seems quite strange that such a huge aircraft would come short in
83 Columba : Wanted to say that I do not want to rule it out completely in the future but for the time being it is doubtful. As for now I only see BA as the only
84 CHRISBA777ER : I havent looked at them for a year or so, but completely missed that one. Interesting. I read somewhere it carries less than the A330 in terms of vol
85 Stitch : Her equipment bays and undercarriage storage impinge on her hold volume. She has 38 LD3 positions vs. 40 for the 747-8I and 44 for the 77W and when y
86 CHRISBA777ER : How many do the A330 and A340 carry?
87 Scouseflyer : That's a great comparison - the T7 has more space and has to accomodate a smaller number of bags before cargo can be squeezed in - so the amount of c
88 YOWza : I was under the impression that those frames were bound for DXB and were set to fill one of the additional orders made by EK? I know there would be s
89 CHRISBA777ER : EK's fleet are not Trent powered, the two ex-EY ones are. I've said all along its QF getting 4 of theirs early.
90 Stitch : 26 LD3 positions for the A330-200, 32 for the A330-300/A340-300, 30 for the A340-500, and 42 for the A340-600 (though their are reports that the A340
91 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : Not that thaey have to money to order them but the following routes could easily fir the need for a A380: MXP-NYC(Seasonal) MXP-NRT(Seasonal) MXP-GRU
92 Ikramerica : The A380 is like stacking an A342 on top of a 772, but with only one cargo hold. After baggage, yes it holds less than the A330/343
93 YOWza : I knew about the different engine choice I just thought it's still minutely possible that EK might suck it up and get hold of the one that made the D
94 Post contains images EGNR : A380-841 MSN 004 (F-WWDD) has carried a variety of liveries (and flown 'naked' - plain white) for promotional purposes. In all cases, the liveries we
95 XT6Wagon : I think someone was forgetting that two of the test frames have EA engines, and were to switch to RR after test flight was over. No reason the reverse
96 Dank : I think that this is probably about right. Honestly, would anyone be shocked if BA were to order the 380? I'm not saying that they will, but it would
97 EGNR : MSN 009 (F-WWEA) is the only A380-861 in the flight test program, making it the only A380 with the EA engines fitted to it. This aircraft was going t
98 WingedMigrator : I think the 748 Intercontinental program would be shocked. BA has always been seen as one of the most likely customers for this aircraft, and the BA
99 Post contains images RayChuang : I still think Cathay Pacific is in the running to buy the A380. You folks are forgetting that a very large number of Hong Kong expatriates (that inclu
100 Post contains images Keesje : A year ago many here were arguing the big carriers like BA, QF and SQ could use 10-12 A380´s for their busiest routes. After the follow-up orders by
101 Airbuske : What about Zoom for JFK-NYC route?
102 Airbuske : Sorry I meant Zoom for flights between JFK and LGW
103 Post contains images CygnusChicago : I would be shocked I'm pretty much convinced that BA is going to go 787/748i for widebodies. Airbus will feel their love on the narrowbodies. But the
104 Post contains images TeamAmerica : You keep posting this as if it was inevitable. I can say that fuel prices are likely to double in 15 years as well. Who is more likely to be correct?
105 Mariner : I wouldn't be shocked if BA ordered the A380 - but I would be surprised. The shock would be if BA ordered the A350. I have to think they'll going wit
106 Dank : And that was what I was driving at. The only way this part wouldn't be a shock is the possibility of a split (the issue being what to do at the high
107 Stitch : Yes, but will it rise at all airports? Or just some? And will that traffic rise exclusively between major trunk routes (which would help the A388) or
108 Post contains images Mariner : It has happened - once or twice. Once, anyway. I predicted SQ would go with the 787 (not exactly rocket scienece). But: I wasn't ready for the SQ spl
109 Pygmalion : Not too surprising... I heard they got 22 XWB for the price of the original 20 A350, think it was just too good of an offer. Who could blame them.
110 Post contains links and images Keesje : Hi folks, Boeing, Airbus, RR, Bombardier & Embraer think so to. You can find their recent market outlooks on their websites, I linked them. Most fore
111 Post contains links Pihero : As far as Keesje is concerned, he is more right than the same A.netters who "call him out". The funny side of this discussion is that Boeing themselv
112 Art : Interesting to see on the forecast Keesje kindly provided: nearly half the 2006 fleet of 910 large airplanes are expected to remain in service until 2
113 WingedMigrator : There are two important things to bear in mind here: this is Boeing's forecast, and it includes cargo airplanes. Since today's fleet of "747 and larg
114 CygnusChicago : Only 3% of the new airplanes are freighters (870 new build freighters).
115 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....hence why I stated "I've" in italics....as I didn't recall you making any previous predictions... ...and like Thorben's comments about BA "wantin
116 RedChili : This is true, of course. Boeing actually anticipates the following annual growth during the coming 20 years: China: 8.1 percent Asia-Pacific: 6.2 per
117 RedChili : 910 VLAs in 2006 1,370 VLAs in 2026 I fail to see how these numbers prove that "less VLAs will be needed."
118 WingedMigrator : This all comes down to how you measure the VLA slice of the airliner pie. Both "more" and "fewer" VLAs will be needed, more on a numerical basis (rad
119 Jacobin777 : ..simple, I'm looking at the "new aircraft deliveries by size"....that's only 960...where as Airbus has a much higher number....
120 CygnusChicago : Of the freighters, they 33% to be large (777F, 748F, 744F), and 31% to be medium widebodies (A330F, 767F), but this is the total market. I am unsure
121 Post contains images WingedMigrator : By 2025 it is likely the A350F and 787F will have been introduced. It is also possible that an improved A380F will have been launched. I believe that
122 Ikramerica : But that ignores the reality that as those regions explode, they won't just be connecting major cities. As the regions grow, they will be able to sup
123 Manni : In that case they'd be stupid to ever start working on a 748i succesor. 500 units, provided that the A380 only sells 300, between the 748i and a comp
124 RedChili : Correct. Okay, I misunderstood what you meant in your earlier reply. But it's correct that Boeing has a lower number than Airbus. I believe that Airb
125 Danny : That was exactly what BA said. Get over it!
126 Abba : And interrestingly enough, which airlines are making money? It seems that most large Aisian carriers - many of which have no single isles - are makin
127 Stitch : Considering ICN's central position, she'd make a great 787-3 hub. Maybe OZ and KE will become the next Asian 787-3 customers. ICN-PVG - 510mi ICN-PEK
128 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..that is not what they said..so how about you getting over it..
129 Columba : They said that the decision was very close and that in the end the 777 was favored because they already had them in the fleet. If you read between th
130 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..there is nothing to read "between the lines"..it is what it is.....they still might have purchased the B777 even if it wasn't in the fleet.. ...reg
131 Manni : They could probably make goodt use of the 787-3, but they both have a fairly to extremely young A330 fleet so I doubt they'll order the 787-3 any tim
132 Post contains links EGNR : From Times Online June 25, 2007 "Senior British Airways executives will travel to Airbus's headquarters in Toulouse tomorrow (Tuesday) to take a fligh
133 CygnusChicago : Um, can you back that up with any math?
134 Post contains links WingedMigrator : The forecast period ends in 2026. I'm sure you'll agree that it is conceivable that a hypothetical Y3 would sell beyond that date. Whatever you want
135 Astuteman : FWIW I don't personally think Boeing expect anything of the sort. It's pretty clear that 5X and FX didn't turn down the A380F because of issues with
136 Post contains images CygnusChicago : Yup, can't disagree with your hunch. However, I think Boeing will definitely be considering a no-A380F scenario, among others, in their forecast. Per
137 Zvezda : The WhaleJet can clearly fly YVR-HKG. LAX-HKG is marginal on windy days.
138 Post contains images Astuteman : It would definitely be visible......... Regards
139 Zeke : I asked you in another thread that you decided to ignore a while back what is your source for these claims ? You seem to make the similar claims on a
140 XT6Wagon : Zeke, why don't you provide a source showing if it is or is not true. Your usual lack of evidence or support doesn't inspire me to agree with you whe
141 Glacote : That's a good metaphor which probably extends beyond raw capacity. Though Airbus themselves use the "A330 on top of an A340" image. I think they are
142 Glacote : Usually etiquette requires those who formulate claim to provide supporting evidence. Although it helthfully fuels the debate to provide counter-evide
143 Zeke : Oh how tiresome...where is your evidence for my "usual lack of evidence or support" ? Fairly dumb to challenge someone when you do the same...... The
144 XT6Wagon : No doubt, I just think that Zeke (and perhaps myself... lol) should be the last person to call someone out for not supporting a claim. He claims to h
145 Post contains images Astuteman : All the evidence I've ever seen/heard shows pretty clearly that the A380 meets all its range/payload/performance specifications (even if not exceedin
146 Thorben : Which I would never hesitate saying. Mmmh, I'll remind you of that phrase next time you talk of the "superiority" of the 777 over the A340. I guess I
147 BestWestern : Because he a tosser. I dont think that Aeroflot are building their new SVO terminal to be A380 compatible. SU are playing the frequency game.
148 Stitch : Only if cabotage is thrown out the window, in which case you could see some foreign A388 operators flying their planes between JFK and LAX/SFO as par
149 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..no you won't... ..yes it is....
150 Thorben : Are you sure? It would be silly not to make the new terminal A380 ready. Even if SU doesn't get them, they can't rule out that somebody else will wan
151 BestWestern : To be fair, they are planning the capacity game on short haul routes, with no routes less than daily. SU have come a long way, and are now a quality
152 PlaneHunter : Apples and oranges. The B777 has outsold any direct A340 competition due to its superior performance, completely different story. PH
153 Post contains images MEA-707 : I expect Airbus to come back with a new and better A380F as soon as all the problems with the pax version has been ironed out and maybe a A-380-900 i
154 EI321 : I'm not sure we will ever See the A380F. At the moment there is little demand for such an aircraft. Partly due to the fact that the 747-8F is a bette
155 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think Airbus was orced to delay the F becuse priority had to be given to the passenger version. UPS and Fedex understandebly couldn't accepty that.
156 Stitch : Because they don't need to. The world's air cargo routes are geared to the 747F's range, not the A380Fs. That is why air cargo operators continue to
157 Keesje : Most 747 Freighters don't have it, they are converted passenger aircraft. All new ones have it. I think aircraft that can fly e.g. directly from Asia
158 Stitch : True, but I don't think that means it's "overrated". If carriers didn't need it, they wouldn't order new planes with it. Not all carriers need it, no
159 Danny : You can only sell something if it's available. A380F isn't at the moment.
160 Post contains images Keesje : - Boeing 772F max payload 104 metric tons, - Airbus A380 max payload 150 metric tons so it would take 1,5 772F do do the job of 1 A380F
161 Dougloid : That kind of logic presupposes that the airplane is loaded to maximum capacity each and every time and that is not a given. You can turn it around an
162 Jacobin777 : ..what kind of amp was it?
163 Post contains images Stitch : The A380F was offered for sale simultaneously with the A380. Airbus made it clear from the A3XX days that their would be a freighter. I am sure the c
164 Insiderinfo : BA is considering 5 frames...however i'm not sure if the order will be "soon"..i'll know more next week.. Last closed door meeting looked like this in
165 Stitch : 50 748I and 5 A388 strike me as both too high and too low. I'd think something more like 30 748Is and 15 A388s. I am sure BA can find six to seven cit
166 Jacobin777 : ..I would have thought maybe they would also add the B787-9 too.. Interesting....[Edited 2007-07-12 17:50:52]
167 Stitch : As I am unfamiliar with BA's 767 operations, where do they use them on "short-haul" (2000nm or less) missions?
168 Post contains images Keesje : Welcome to a.net. Looks like BA has changed all their plans / fleet strategy.
169 Danny : Story was a bit different. A380F got orders from 4 customers. Before others ordered the program got delayed and finally "suspended". When most of 748
170 Stitch : EK and ILFC both placed their orders for the A388F in mid 2000. Two of ILFC's A388Fs were tasked to EK. FX was January 2001 and 5X in January 2005. T
171 BestWestern : Insiderinfo is obviously smoking something. I really cant see BA going for the 783, Isnt this the version that hasnt been certified in Europe yet? An
172 Post contains images Scorpio : None of the 787 versions have been cerified yet, anywhere But you're right, Boeing has said they will not certify the 787-3 for Europe. 5 A380s? You
173 Insiderinfo : They're going to wait to see what get's offered in term of 777 replacement...they need to replace...hence the small order for 4 frames. Thay have con
174 Insiderinfo : you'll see places like greece, turkey, some german destinations and eastern european and moscow......and the 787-3 has a range of 2500 full load.. sh
175 Insiderinfo : umm..best western..just look at my log-in name...and trust me on this...i know more of what really happens back there than most...
176 Insiderinfo : Its not that they don't want to....concerned that's been raised at no less than 7 of the last 20 planning meetings is....reliability...actual perform
177 Post contains images Stitch : "At this time". If BA buys a bunch, that time will be "now". Remember that 2500nm is full load of pax and their bags, but little to no revenue cargo.
178 Insiderinfo : Boeing hasn't ruled that out...infact they totally expect it to be certified in europe sooner rather than eventually...
179 Dank : ummm... because login names are some vetted method of identifying someone??? And if that is the case, why would they be ordering more 748s than they
180 Insiderinfo : stitch..BA cargo revenue in europe is very small revenue...they came to the conclusion in 1997 that european revenue to pax based...and that's where
181 Stitch : And if that is the case, why would they be ordering more 748s than they have 744s? In fact, they would be better off with a ton of 773/350s. The 747-
182 WINGS : INSIDERINFO, I'm curious as to why you would risk yourself and your job to transmit such sensitive information. I know various people with rather pri
183 Stitch : Okay. Then the 787-3 might very well work for BA in intra-EU operations.
184 Insiderinfo : never mentioned i work for BA..infact never mentioned i work for anyone..
185 Insiderinfo : Read my post..i said 50 748i...to eventually replace the 57...744's thay have...that's 7 less.. which will be replaced by 773 and 3 additional with 5
186 Insiderinfo : Dank..looks like you read this wrong..sorry.. that's my whole point...they are not going to order 787-8 for short haul...when you can configure a sho
187 Ikramerica : for BA, the increase in seats is far more than 100. It'll be more like 150 or so, mostly Y pax.
188 Insiderinfo : actually wouldn't...they are looking for any way to increase club world capacity on large aircraft...premium seats are the diffrentiator at BA vs oth
189 CJAContinental : As much as I would like to see that livery on an A380, they are way to stringent to consider anything remotely outside the box as far as a more diver
190 Legoguy : How else would you know all this? And you username seems to indicate that you work for someone... Also was it not mentioned that BA would order one o
191 Dank : Hey Stitch, I agree with your assessment. What I was getting at was that insiderinfo suggested that BA replace virtually all their 744s with 748s and
192 Post contains images Wolbo : So let me get this straight. The A350 is not yet far enough developed to be seriously evaluated by BA but any new Boeing design is already automatica
193 Stitch : What fiasco? Boeing doesn't like the fact the EU wants to charge more to certify the 787-3 then the FAA and JAA do. Add to the fact that interest so
194 Insiderinfo : come on guy's...BA favor's Boeing for long haul...and they're not that shy of letting the odd comment confirm taht occasionally...no different than U
195 A342 : I don't quite buy that. You have to consider the connecting cargo from Europe to elsewhere in the world.
196 Legoguy : Yes you are correct, my apologies. I have been trying to read the last thread on it (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/
197 Insiderinfo : I'm refering to inter-european cargo...of course there's connecting world cargo..and that's the bulk of it...but nothing compared to their World carg
198 Post contains images Keesje : indersiderinfo... the 748 is a question mark.. will fly in 09.. BAVIP took A380 a few weeks ago..the 772 replacement is not on the table... their you
199 Insiderinfo : if your refering to walsh...your right an airbus man from lingus...but..he's got an up hill battle internally...with virtually everybody sided agains
200 Glacote : BA favors the bottom line. By the way could you please refrain your flood of posts and rather concentrate on substantiating your claims? Thank you.
201 Spink : I don't cause it doesn't make economic sense unless the ground time at the interstitials is so high that it has a significant impact on fleet utiliza
202 Ikramerica : I don't buy that at all. An A380 even with a lot of J class can hold 450 seats. 20F + 280Y (main deck) + 100J + 60Y+ (upper deck) would easily fit in
203 Insiderinfo : a series of orders in the coming year will more than substantiate my claim...just hold tight boys...no better way...
204 Jacobin777 : ..when do you expect the massive BA order to happen?
205 Insiderinfo : I'll know more in a few weeks...final proposal needs to be reviewed by finance...Lloyd griffiths and Keith williams will be hashing it out for weeks.a
206 Post contains images Dougloid : Not one of these Fender Brown Concert, Sherwood 8422 Master, Supro Capri, Pignose G60VR, Masco MAP15, Danelectro Leader and a corner of a National Sp
207 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...very interesting... ..I notice you have some vintage axes in the back also.... .... .....seems you are well into the vintage stuff That Fender Bro
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