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Lynx Announcement?  
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3714 times:
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Perhaps I missed something, but isn't F9 way overdue for announcing the Lynx routes? I know there was speculation on a couple of cities discussed (based on advertised jobs or clues found in F9's Route Map), but I haven't seen a for-sure list, yet, and there's no press release that I could find.

Anyone have any more information?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24656 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
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Quoting Flashmeister (Thread starter):
Anyone have any more information?

It's all with the DOT, just like Virgin America.

Both airlines have their AOC from the DOT, both are waiting for full FAA approval.

Both have applied to the DOT for a waiver to start selling tickets. The DOT has not yet granted that waiver, in either case.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting Flashmeister (Thread starter):
clues found in F9's Route Map

I have seen the advertisements, but i am looking for these clues in the map. Do you mean the wide open areas they don't fly to, like the SE, etc?


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 2):
Do you mean the wide open areas they don't fly to, like the SE, etc?

Surely they're not going to fly Q400's DEN-Southeast.


User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

You wouldn't think so. I remember when they first applied and there were cities on the list that boggled the mind. The one that comes to mind is Greer, SC. I think that was it. That is way over the 650-700 mile range.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24656 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
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Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 4):
I remember when they first applied and there were cities on the list that boggled the mind.

Hmmm? The only city on the RFP in South Carolina that I remember was GSP, and that was never intended for Lynx.

GSP has applied for a grant to intiate the service GSP/DEN - with E170's.

The RFP was to cover Lynx and the Republic E170 flying. The Lynx Q400's will be based at DEN and fly no further than about 650 miles.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
city on the RFP in South Carolina that I remember was GSP

Thats right. I just remember Greer for some reason. Looking at Greer on mapquest, right smack in the middle of Greenville- Spartanville. Also, maybe this has been posted already, but I am hearing that a little lynx will be the first animal on the tail. Very appropriate.


User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Look for Missoula and Wichita to be the first two cities served by Lynx.


A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 7):
Look for Missoula and Wichita to be the first two cities served by Lynx.

source? or just an educated guess?

Either way, sounds good to me. Although ICT seems like it would be better off with the Ejets, thats just my opinion.



Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3154 times:

Wichita yes, Missoula no. Close though, Billings will likely get some of the first Lynx planes.

User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2392 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days ago) and read 3120 times:
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Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 6):
Thats right. I just remember Greer for some reason. Looking at Greer on mapquest, right smack in the middle of Greenville- Spartanville. Also, maybe this has been posted already, but I am hearing that a little lynx will be the first animal on the tail. Very appropriate.

Greer is where the Greenville-Spartanburg airport is located.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 9):
Wichita yes, Missoula no. Close though, Billings will likely get some of the first Lynx planes.

That's correct. It's all but confirmed up here that Lynx will replace Horizon on the service to Billings, not Republic. I could see them starting Missoula as well, though. It's a pretty fast-growing market.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 8):
Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 7):
Look for Missoula and Wichita to be the first two cities served by Lynx.

source? or just an educated guess?

Either way, sounds good to me. Although ICT seems like it would be better off with the Ejets, thats just my opinion.

My source is from two Lynx employees; both stated Missoula and Wichita in seperate conversations. However, that was a few weeks ago, and it's certainly possible that a change has been made. If I get an update from either one, I'll post it.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Wichita has been publicized as far as some preliminary job advertisements there, but I had not seen any reports for Missoula. I wouldn't be surprised if F9 starts announcing in the very near future, possibly even this week. The waiver they applied for to start selling tickets has been on high priority. Where would one go to see the waiver and if the DOT has ruled on it?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24656 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2867 times:
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Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 13):
Where would one go to see the waiver and if the DOT has ruled on it?

The waiver application (the second one):

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/471904_web.pdf

If you go here:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchFormSimple.cfm

- and type in the docket number - 27074 - it will/should up all the filings in connection with Lynx.

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-27 03:12:01]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 847 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

I will add some more doubt to MSO. There is some runway work going on this summer (august last time I looked at the website) and 3 weekends the main runway will be shutdown, not the best time to start service.
BIL and ICT and the two starters for my bet.

Really should hit up RAP during August, can't sell too many tickets around rally time. (and for quite a price)
Jeremy


User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

What will Frontier's response be to the new Southwest route announcements in regard to Lynx? The future flight schedules show a definite increase in block time between DEN - ABQ and DEN - OKC on all the "Horizon" operated flights even though Horizon will no longer be flying for Frontier after the end of the year. The schedules to ELP, TUL and BIL also show significant block time increases as the year progresses. Could these block time increases be due to the slightly slower Q400 on these routes? (The OKC flights are most obvious because only one of the three flights is operated by "Horizon" in January and its block time is 10 minutes more than the "Republic" operated flights.

I guess the question is, with Southwest announcing DEN-ABQ and DEN-OKC, what will Frontier do? Horizon seems to compete well with WN in the northwest with the Q400. Or, will Frontier want to keep jets on these routes?

Also, I believe AMA was a potential Lynx market. Was this a pre-emptive strike by WN or were they just looking at an under served market with through DAL service?

Very interesting game of cat and mouse here.


User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 16):
Also, I believe ama was a potential Lynx market. Was this a pre-emptive strike by WN or were they just looking at an under served market with through DAL service?

I was hoping it was a potential market at least, now im wondering if one of two things would happen

1) Frontier leaves WN alone and lets them operate WN in peace

2) They start up with some sort of Lynx route, competing with WN...which could end up in a bloodbath (im leaning towards a tad of overcapacity in this case)

What do you guys see happening?

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 16):

Very interesting game of cat and mouse here.

 checkmark  indeed.


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 8):
Either way, sounds good to me. Although ICT seems like it would be better off with the Ejets, thats just my opinion.

DEN-ICT is a short enough segment that the CASM of the Q400 is far superior to that of the E-170.



.......
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 17):
What do you guys see happening?

I don't see Frontier considering AMA now. It is one thing to go up against WN in a large market, it is suicide to do it in a small market.

Frontier has some big challenges coming up. They really need to get the waiver to announce cities so that they can start selling tickets. I don't believe this process is going as smoothly as they had hoped. It also appears that Southwest smells blood. 20+ years ago, another airline with the same name found itself between the behemouth of United and a low cost Continental. Very similar to today only switching Continental to Southwest. I think this Frontier has a chance to survive, but there can't be many mis-steps.


User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

WN may be doing it to beat F9 to it, but if F9 throws a single (or two) Q400(s) up against a 737 I think you'll see F9 winning the market vis a vis the sparseish traffic between the two cities (the southwest announcement increases the city pair capacity by something like 500% does it not) and the superior economics of the Q400 in regional markets as compared to the 737.

User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 20):
WN may be doing it to beat F9 to it, but if F9 throws a single (or two) Q400(s) up against a 737 I think you'll see F9 winning the market vis a vis the sparseish traffic between the two cities (the southwest announcement increases the city pair capacity by something like 500% does it not) and the superior economics of the Q400 in regional markets as compared to the 737.

But why would Frontier want to "win" the AMA market when it makes more sense to "win" a market that Southwest doesn't fly to since this other market likely has higher yields since they don't have Southwest. While the Q400 is a great economic airplane, AMA is a Southwest dominated market. Frontier would be the "newby". This is not the same as Southwest going up against Horizon since in that case, the market was dominated by Horizon and Southwest was the newby. For these reasons, I can't see Frontier considering AMA now.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24656 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2281 times:
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Quoting Stapleton (Reply 19):
. I don't believe this process is going as smoothly as they had hoped.

There is nothing either Frontier/Lybx or Virgin America can do.

I am told that normally, the DOT only grants that particular waiver 40 days before start of service. Both airlines are hopeful the DOT will do it earlier.

The problem, in both case, is not with the DOT, but with the FAA, who have not yet given approval to either airline. With FAA approval, the waiver becomes irrelevant.

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 19):
I don't see Frontier considering AMA now.

Although AMA was on the RFP, I don;t think it went much further than that. There are other cities that are much more attractive, and making themselves prettier.

FSD, for example, was ready to cough up nearly $500,000 in help if Frontier started service there, and even such places as ASE are offering some form of help, be it simply in the form of relaxed fees or marketing.

I had not heard AMA was even in negotiation with them, beyond responding to the RFP.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
There are other cities that are much more attractive, and making themselves prettier.

What cities were negotiating with Frontier?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24656 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2256 times:
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Quoting Stapleton (Reply 23):
What cities were negotiating with Frontier?

The RFP went out to 60 or so cities. I'm not sure they are all still in my head - or that I remember the codes for all for all of them.

Starting with the mountain cities, it includes Aspen and Vail (mostly regarded as certainties) Steamboat Springs (who are hopeful), Sun Valley (who don't think it will happen until next year).

FSD as noted, and even the other airport there (Sioux City, perhaps?) stuck its hand up. RAP wasn't sure - they made an offer, but I don't know if it went further.

ICT, obviously, and DSM, a few others of that kind - meaning area/size. I don't remember if TUL was on the RFP (?), but Lynx staff are already working that station for Frontier flights. BIL is simply replacing one airline - Horizon - with Republic, and then, we believe, Lynx.

There were some surprises on there, such as GSP, but they have applied for a grant to get Frontier/Republic E170 service. I'm not sure why such places as Helensville, AL, were on the list.

Most of the "other" CA cities, were there, PSP, MTY and SBA. Even LGB and BUR. SMX wasn't on the list and asked to be included. I guess any of the CA cities would be for Republic, not for Lynx?

There are several threads about it all, but that covers some of them. I know I've forgotten at least three. It's very early here.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Post contains images ShannoninAMA : We might not be able to fill a Q400 alongside two 737s to DEN. However, im sure we could at least halfway fill it up, and probably more. The one thin
26 Stapleton : Mariner: I mention earlier in this thread my thoughts about Frontier schedules later this year and into next year where the block times suddenly incre
27 Post contains links Ytib : Construction starts the week before Labor Day, and only impacts the weekday travel. The runway will be basically available Friday - Monday. This will
28 Mariner : I think it is a given that TUL will go to Lynx - with Lynx ground staff working the flights already. ICT - they're hiring staff. BIL - for sure. Afte
29 Post contains images Mariner : My apologies to cities like Durango and Grand Junction - also on the list, also have had at least some discussions. mariner
30 Post contains links Stapleton : It appears that a another potential Lynx market is getting improved service. FSD is going mainline (at least for awhile) on United. FSD Is Getting UA
31 CIDflyer : I know CID was dealing with F9, they needed a $500,000 revenue gurantee. Last I heard a decision was not to come before next year. Service would be o
32 Post contains images ShannoninAMA : Wow! Things are really moving along here! Talk about a game of cat and mouse... I wonder who is next on the list? think MSO or ICT? Shannon
33 AirframeAS : How do I apply to Lynx?? F9's website has no way of applying....
34 STLGph : Now the $10,000 question -- who would fly a Q400 as opposed to a mainline jet from Southwest or United?
35 Post contains images ShannoninAMA : Me!! (hey, i like the Q400 ) Shannon
36 Mariner : Horizon doesn't seem to do too badly with their Q400 service. And I'm not sure anyone is flying a mainline jet into, say, Aspen. mariner
37 STLGph : And how many routes are there where they are going against 737's and jets of the sort?
38 Mariner : I've never counted. But - given a choice between a CRJ, or even a CR7, I'd take a Q400 any day. And United seems quite happy to mix them with mainlin
39 CarsAir04 : I for one can't wait for Frontier to announce the ski towns. I am really looking forward to waxing up the skis and tossing them on the plane. (Sure wi
40 Tornado82 : Nor will they ever. It wouldn't be legal because of wing span regs, nor operationally possible. I'd definitely ride a Q400 over a Southwest anything.
41 Post contains links Mariner : I also forgot places like Minot ND - MOT - who are really ticked off with NWA at the moment: http://www.minotdailynews.com/editorials/articles.asp?ar
42 Floridaflyboy : I was told up here in BIL that we will not be getting Republic at all. Do you know something about that? If so, and we are getting republic for a sho
43 Mariner : It all ties up with reply #1. Until the FAA approves Lynx, or until the DOT grants the waiver, Frontier can't announce the new cities or take booking
44 Floridaflyboy : Yeah, I understand all of that, but I just noticed that you mentioned Republic, and there has been no talk of Republic up here. The QX guys say that
45 Stapleton : I think it is interesting that some potential Lynx cities are hearing next year is more likely: It is also interesting to look at what airports United
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