I will definately be kind. As a native Chicagoan that brings back great local aviation memories. Thank you for posting that!!! I miss the 727 and the old UA livery.
The exhibit, although no where near that of say The Museum of Flight or National Air and Space Museum, is still quite interesting. The last time I was there, they had a retired 727 757/767 pilot from UA there to answer everyone's questions. I probably asked more questions than anyone that day.
JJMNGR From Brazil, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 1018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11280 times:
On the MS Flight Simulator I took of with a B722 many times...confess that it is not easy but there are some tips that were given to me by a B722 pilot.
On short runways normally they do not pressurize the aircraft while on ground. Normally they did it just after getting positive climb rate and gear up. But it was something they can´t forget to do it otherwise the oxygen masc would fall. Not pressurizing the aircraft while on ground would allow engines to have more power.
But this is something that on MS FS could not be done as in fact you will not see real results.
On the FS, the pilot told me that another practice was to start rolling with normal 20 degrees flap indication for takeoff and on a certain moment before rotate, they applied full flap and than the aircraft lifted off. After getting positive climb rate and the aircraft really flying, the flaps were retracted to normal position of 20 degrees for normal climb. I tried and it worked.
Reltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
The 727-100 can easily get airborne at Meigs. As some of you pointed out it would have to be empty and probally enough fuel to get to ORD. Based on my old -200 charts the -200 with -9 engines needed 2500 to get airborne with 20000lbs of fuel on an 85 degree day with no pax and cargo. But as someone pointed it would not be a balanced field length which to you non pilots, means if you tried to abort the takeoff a very low reject(V1) speed, you will get wet!.. I have gotten airborne under 3000 feet many times in a -200 but we were light and usually a pretty good wind in the winter time. The best I have noted was flying a 767-300ER from JFK to BDL with 60 folks. We would do normal power takeoffs (if we were not getting a check ride) and rotate as we passed the 1500ft marker and be airborne well before 2000 ft on 13R. When we used 31L we would start to rotate as we passed 22R/4L and be well airborne when we got to the displaced threshold. Landing at BDL was just as good. We could roll the plane on soooo smoothly and with idle reverse use under 3000 ft using light braking.
You airplane watchers should watch a empty FedEx or UPS takeoff . Those planes are super light and my squadron(ANG) buddy says they are airborne under 2000 ft in there 727-100 and he says it is even shorter in the 757.
If it aint Boeing, I aint going!
Airliners are quite the performers when light. They have to meet so many standards at max gross weight with one engine inop that at light weights with all engines, they are performers. My F-16 has a 9 to 1 glide ratio with the engine inop yet my 767 has a 20 to 1 if it were to be a glider. Look at the performance of the Air Transit A 330 glider and the Air Canada 767 that glided. Awesome! A southern DC-9 lost both engines in the late 70s neer Rome Ga. around 15000ft. They were trying to make a military base 29 miles away and could have made it but excessive turns and many other factors prevented on a strait line glide. The controllers thought that was the only runway in the area the 9 could land on. It was determined that the DC-9 with out reverse available needed 1500ft to stop at the weight it was at. Point to make here is the plane crashed on a highway and the controllers never informed the crew they were over a 4000ft paved private airport which was 5 miles away at the time they lost the engines. These planes can glide too!
Boeingmd82 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10707 times:
Quoting Reltney (Reply 12): You airplane watchers should watch a empty FedEx or UPS takeoff . Those planes are super light and my squadron(ANG) buddy says they are airborne under 2000 ft in there 727-100 and he says it is even shorter in the 757.
This is so true, I once watched a FedEX MD-11, stuffed with FLOWERS, take off in a few thousand feet in Hilo, and rocket what looked like straight up on it's way to Los Angeles. It's quite impressive!
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10632 times:
The 727 was specifically built to be, for its time, overpowered to take off from airports that couldn't handle the aircraft of the era (707/dc-8) such as LGA. IIRC piolts have stated that the 727 was a hot rod for the era. Pity they are gone now. The -200 in particular looks like it's going supersonic sitting still.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 29469 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9264 times:
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 14): i don't think so because no matter how empty a 727 is it takes alot of runway becuase of it's underpower engines
Are you serious...? 727s have operated on short runways for ages.
The 727, especially the original 727-100, was designed to use runways as short as 5000 ft and had excellent performance. I don't think any other commercial jet could match its runway performance at the time the 727-100 was introduced.
Dash 80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9216 times:
Great video. Thanks for sharing. I've been in it and never knew this how they got that aircraft to the museum. You'd think it would have been easier to disassemble it at ORD and truck it, but this method is way cooler.
Pr1268 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7824 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18): The 727, especially the original 727-100, was designed to use runways as short as 5000 ft and had excellent performance.
I remember flying Eastern ATL-DCA in July 1979 (I was 10 yrs old at the time) - we landed on runway 33 (5204ft / 1586m). The flaps were set to 40, and on short final, I thought to myself that if the windows could be opened, I might be able to reach down and scoop up water from the Potomac River. It seemed like all the pilots could do (brakes, spoilers, and reverse thrust) to bring the aircraft to a stop at the far end of the runway. I don't remember which variant, but I'm pretty sure it was a -200. Shortly after leaving the terminal, I noticed a DL 727-200 and some other airline's DC-9 taking off from 33. Must've been a stiff crosswind that afternoon...
The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
BravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7757 times:
Quoting Dash 80 (Reply 19): Great video. Thanks for sharing. I've been in it and never knew this how they got that aircraft to the museum. You'd think it would have been easier to disassemble it at ORD and truck it, but this method is way cooler.
After it landed at Meigs it was loaded onto a barge and spent the winter at the Port of Indiana. In the spring it was taken back to Chicago off loaded and moved into the museum
BeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 788 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7231 times:
Air Canada flew a DC-9 into Ottawa's Rockliffe Airport a few years ago just after it retired the last Nine. The aircraft was donated to the Canadian Aviation Museum located on the airport. The runway is only 3300 ft long (1000 meters); this would be a feat pretty similar to the 727 landing at Meigs.
CcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7097 times:
Thanks for sharing this video! There is one in the database of the aircraft in the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. I remember when they brought this plane across lake Shore drive at 57th street after being barged down the shoreline. They had to take the wings off and one or two of the pillars on the front of the museum just to bring it in.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
Flymd From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7067 times:
Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 10): I noticed what looked like to small airline operated aircraft in the video. I saw a TWA Express plane and another that resembled Air Wisconsin, though I doubt it.
Did airlines operate out of Miegs in 1992 when this clip is from?
Actually both UAX and TWE did fly out of Miegs field for a time. UAX flew to Springfield, Illinois (and I believe TWE did as well). Actually UAX was still flying out of CGX as late as the year 2000 (I lived in a high rise apartment complex near Miegs at that time and I always remember seeing the UAX B-1900 flying out for SPI)
Still love Meigs, damn Daley for his gangster closing of the airport!!
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
They put on a great show with it. They make it sound like you're in the cockpit and you hear ATC clearing the plane for takeoff. They are even able to retract the flaps and gear for the show. If you get to Chicago I highly recommend going to the museum even if it's just to see the 727.
There use to be a large picture of the 727 landing at Meigs hanging on the wall in the terminal at Meigs. I was fortunate enough to fly in there in 2002 as part of my cross country trip requirement for my instrument rating. The picture no longer hangs in the terminal now known as a bird sanctuary. UGH