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Aloha Post $24.3 Million Loss  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Talk about a significant negative operating margin.

Quote:
Losses widen at Aloha Airlines
The company blames the airfare war and higher fuel prices

Aloha Airlines, pressured by the interisland airfare war and trying to cope with high fuel prices, lost $24.3 million in the first quarter --- its 14th consecutive quarterly loss.

The privately held carrier, which emerged from bankruptcy in February 2006, had a net loss of $20.3 million a year ago.

Revenue continued to slide as it fell to $88.1 million, down 10.3 percent from $98.2 million a year ago, according to preliminary data released today by the federal Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

Aloha, which slashed $75 million to $90 million in annual expenses during its 13-month stay in reorganization, still saw its operating expenses rise 7 percent in the first quarter to $109.9 million from $102.7 million a year ago. Fuel costs rose 4.2 percent to $23 million from $22.1 million.

The carrier's operating loss widened to $21.8 million from $4.4 million.

http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=5949


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3049 times:

Maybe they will come to their senses and talk to Hawaiian Airlines about merging.

-JD

[Edited 2007-06-27 15:27:49]

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

No merger necessary, in my opinion.
I don't see why everyone feels they have to match the fares that GO! is offering.
Eventually, GO! will be seen as the ridiculous idea that it is, and the $10 fares will have to GO! away.
I mean, if HA and AQ weren't fare matching, GO! would sell all the seats in their dinky and high op-cost airplanes, lose money, and all the remaining passengers would have to walk to the next airline counter.

AQ has been having financial difficulty for a lot longer than GO! has been around.

I'm still rooting for HA.


User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
Maybe they will come to their senses and talk to Hawaiian Airlines about merging.

Thats probably not the answer. The answer is to diversify and get some mainland point to point traffic that is not reliant on to/from Hawaii services. They will always have this problem as the Hawaii intra and inter market is such a volatile market that changes often.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 3):
The answer is to diversify and get some mainland point to point traffic that is not reliant on to/from Hawaii services.

AQ already does that with:

OAK-LAS
SMF-SNA
RNO-SNA

AQ applied for SNA-DCA and were not granted the service..

-JD


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

One question, you cant honestly tell me those 737-200's are efficient in any way shape or form, i mean most of them will be almost 30 years old.

If AQ could expand internationally or get rid of the 732's and get a 737ng fleet they may see some profit come back (in the long run)

Looking at the information on the airline, they have the oldest (median age) fleet in the USA, even the 737 ngs are 7 years old. Aloha could do a hell of alot to increase its profits and it doesnt need to involve slashing costs,

Invest in a new fleet
Order some 787's and expand internationally, especially capture the japanese market. Maybe even when the 787 arrives it could do HNL-LHR or something similar. Would also be able to fly to the likes of MIA, JFK, ORD etc etc
Look at their product and invest some money in it and market the airline

The airline to me just seems very limited in what it can do, having 737's almost in the middle of the pacific ocean, theres so many options that could be opened and be profitable for AQ if they expanded.

Thats my opinion anyway, i personally think HA should order some 787s as well.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 4):
AQ already does that with:

OAK-LAS
SMF-SNA
RNO-SNA

Those routes are totally feed to their Hawaii service, and really are not considered point ot point in the marketplace.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
I mean, if HA and AQ weren't fare matching, GO! would sell all the seats in their dinky and high op-cost airplanes, lose money, and all the remaining passengers would have to walk to the next airline counter.

If HA & AQ would not match go! they would see their loads drop while go! enjoys 100% load factors and could very well manage to break even if not turn a profit with their $19,29,39 etc fares. This would also give go! impetus to move ahead with plans to shift to larger such as the CRJ700 adding capacity and frequencies which would see AQ&HA loads decline even further.

Its by matching go! HA & AQ can keep the pressure on go! and hopefully keep enough passengers away and minimize any success go! has in the interisland market.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
Maybe they will come to their senses and talk to Hawaiian Airlines about merging.

Someone else mentioned WN buying AQ, and I think this makes more sense. Keep the Aloha brand, even though Hawai'i is the most southwest of any state in the union...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 5):
If AQ could expand internationally or get rid of the 732's and get a 737ng fleet they may see some profit come back (in the long run)

They have flown to other Pacific Islands before using the 732 and 73G, the routes proved to be cost yielding, and not revenue yielding. What you are saying makes sense, however I see Hawaiian operating routes like NAN, and APW before Aloha. That however would cause HA to bring a 3rd type into the fleet. Which has been rumored for years. Either the 757-200 or 737-700. That and only at that point could I see routes like:

HNL-NAN 2x per week
737-700

HNL-RAR 2x per week
737-700

HNL-APW 2x per week
737-700

HNL-GEG Daily
737-700

HNL-FAT 4x per week
737-700

HNL-ONT Daily
757-200

HNL-YVR Daily
757-200

HNL-AKL 3 or 4x per week
757-200

There are of course other routes that could be of interest with the 767-300 such as:

*HNL-MCI via 767-300

*HNL-STL-LGW via 767-300
(I laughed when I first heard this, but the demand is there in STL for both)

*HNL-MEX via 767-300
(I laughed at it, yet with a growing Middle Class in Mexico, maybe down the road)

*HNL-TPE via 767-300
(This route was last rumored in 2006)

*HNL-HKG via 767-300
(This route was last rumored in 2006)

-JD


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Both AQ and HA are holding cards of any mainland expansion plans close. They aren't giving any signs of what their plans are.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

What they really should consider doing is establishing some of the old Western Routes that went by the wayside back in the 80's when DL took them over, and provide Westbound service in to California from places in Montana, Idaho,
the Dakotas etc, offering thru plane service into LAX-SFO & SAN--- TRULY UNDERSERVED MARKETS TO Southern California-WEST COAST DESTINATIONS - like Billings, Kalispel, Bozeman, MIssoula, Idaho Falls, Rapid City, Sioux Falls, Casper, Jackson Hole, Sioux City, Bismarck etc.


User currently offlineGeotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Anyone know how the cost structures of Aloha and Hawaiian compare to other airlines doing lots of short hops? It will take sustained cost pressure to get competitive with Go!, and eventually drive them out of the market. Go! doesn't have unlimited reserves.

Dave


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1092 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

The folks in Hawaii are going to regret flying go! when AQ or HA is pushed into BK and shuts down permanently, because those high CASM RJs have to be fed so to speak. go! won't keep fares artificially low once they have less competition.


TLH
User currently offlineObserver From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 5):
One question, you cant honestly tell me those 737-200's are efficient in any way shape or form, i mean most of them will be almost 30 years old.

If AQ could expand internationally or get rid of the 732's and get a 737ng fleet they may see some profit come back (in the long run)

I read somewhere that Aloha might pick up some UAL 733/735s as part of that deal. But AQ's former president Zander told me years ago that CFM engines on 733/735/73NGs were stressed too much in the high-cycle, very short-haul nature of Hawaii, and the 73S JT8Ds were rock-solid. That was AQ's challenge in finding a replacement for the 73S.

I've never heard how the RR-BMWs do on the 717, nor now that go is there with CRJs how those engines do.

AQ was evaluating the E-jets before Ch 11.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 9):
*HNL-MCI via 767-300

*HNL-STL-LGW via 767-300
(I laughed when I first heard this, but the demand is there in STL for both)

*HNL-MEX via 767-300
(I laughed at it, yet with a growing Middle Class in Mexico, maybe down the road)

*HNL-TPE via 767-300
(This route was last rumored in 2006)

*HNL-HKG via 767-300
(This route was last rumored in 2006)

All of those make sense, even MEX. AQ has heaps of options as does HA they just need to have the guts and the aircraft to attempt them. HKG would do well, close to Asia, Australia.

Quoting Observer (Reply 14):
I read somewhere that Aloha might pick up some UAL 733/735s as part of that deal. But AQ's former president Zander told me years ago that CFM engines on 733/735/73NGs were stressed too much in the high-cycle, very short-haul nature of Hawaii, and the 73S JT8Ds were rock-solid. That was AQ's challenge in finding a replacement for the 73S.

Which would help explain why they have lasted so long!!  Smile

Quoting Observer (Reply 14):
AQ was evaluating the E-jets before Ch 11.

Thats the other thing i was going to say, why not look at the E170 or E190 for interisland hops, surely they would be able to actually fill those up and they would be a bit more economical, and if required run a 737 service or 2 a day with freight.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting Observer (Reply 14):
But AQ's former president Zander told me years ago that CFM engines on 733/735/73NGs were stressed too much in the high-cycle, very short-haul nature of Hawaii, and the 73S JT8Ds were rock-solid. That was AQ's challenge in finding a replacement for the 73S.

That is correct, and I have personally seen a 73G being used on an interisland line become progressively delayed because of it. The problem was that AQ was looking for a single aircraft that could replace both the pax 732s and 732QCs. Problem is that no such aircraft exists that can do it the way the 732 does it. AQ supposedly did look at the Avro RJX, as that was supposed to have a cargo version.

Quoting Observer (Reply 14):
AQ was evaluating the E-jets before Ch 11.



Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 15):
Thats the other thing i was going to say, why not look at the E170 or E190 for interisland hops,

They were looking at them after bankruptcy as well. The E-190 was here in Hawaii last July parked in the AQ hangar. AQ also parked it at a gate at the Interisland Terminal and took it for 2 interisland roundtrip test drives.

Quoting Observer (Reply 14):
I've never heard how the RR-BMWs do on the 717

The BR715s do great as they were specifically designed for short trips.


User currently offlineGeotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 16):
The problem was that AQ was looking for a single aircraft that could replace both the pax 732s and 732QCs. Problem is that no such aircraft exists that can do it the way the 732 does it.

Perhaps the NWA DC-9s will find the 3rd of their 9 lives in Hawaii!   They've got another 40 years left in 'em and those Pratts are indestructible on short hops.

Old fashioned as an anvil and just about as durable.

Dave

[Edited 2007-06-28 07:28:37]

User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2309 times:

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 11):
TRULY UNDERSERVED MARKETS TO Southern California-WEST COAST DESTINATIONS - like Billings, Kalispel, Bozeman, MIssoula, Idaho Falls, Rapid City, Sioux Falls, Casper, Jackson Hole, Sioux City, Bismarck etc

Those routes can be left to Delta Connection, United Express, and Horizon if need be...

There is not a chance you would see Hawaiian or Aloha in any of the above destinations..

-JD


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

go's intentions are to bring larger aircraft into the inter-island market ranging from the CRJ7 to 737s ... J.O. told me himself of those long-range plans on media day last yr. That may be assuming if they take out one of the locals ...

Question is ... will they keep the low fares if they manage to kill both AQ and HA? that would be a ... monopoly(?)



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 19):
go's intentions are to bring larger aircraft into the inter-island market ranging from the CRJ7 to 737s ... J.O. told me himself of those long-range plans on media day last yr. That may be assuming if they take out one of the locals ...

The idea of a 737 fleet joining GO! only further the need for either HA/AQ to start talking and force a merger of the two, so they in turn could maintain service. Or AQ or HA to merge with a mainland based airline such as AQ/WN HA/CO. I dont think the people of Hawaii would be to happy to see the Hawaiian name disappear. Yet we in the US thought that Pan Am wouldnt disappear and it did (at least in the form that we knew it).

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 19):
Question is ... will they keep the low fares if they manage to kill both AQ and HA?

If they killed of AQ and/or HA I think that you would see another airline enter the market, there is need for two airlines in the market. A monopoly on such a large island network would be to the total detriment of the Hawaiian citizens, and tourists.

-JD


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