FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
Quoting STLGph (Reply 1): So, if Las Vegas - Toledo wouldn't work because of the distance, then .........
I think it was more distance vs. fare they could get.
Fares to LAS from GSP are currently $100 more than they are out of TOL. That gives Allegiant a better fare out of GSP even after they discount current prices on other airlines.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5531 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2314 times:
AA was able to fly LAX-RDU with MD-80's. I wonder if G4 recently received some 5-tankers.
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2311 times:
Quoting STLGph (Reply 4): they were charging $69 from Toledo and now $89 from Greenville.
What are the fares out of DTW though?
I honestly don't think TOL will ever see anything more then bare minimum service from Allegiant. I would go into it, but this is about GSP-LAS. Good for them They seem to be doing well in the southern cities.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2282 times:
Quoting STLGph (Reply 4): and now $89 from Greenville.
That is just for the next few weeks;
Quote: Allegiant's $89* one-way introductory fare is limited, must be purchased by July 21, 2007
then we will see where it goes up from there. Also a low fare doesn't mean the fare mix includes more than a small percentage of seats at that price.
[Edited 2007-06-27 19:51:39]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
YNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 473 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2216 times:
In Youngstown (YNG) we have had 93%+ loads from January-May this year; but the reason we have not received any additional services with Allegiant is because of low yields. We don't advertise too heavily either, unlike RFD and other succesful G4 cities. Perhaps it was the lower yields which ended the TOL flights and the solid yields at GSP, which gave them this great opportunity.
I don't think distance is as big as everyone on here portrays. I have seen Allegiant charters from Milwaukee fly all the way down into Puerto Rico; which I'm pretty darn sure is further than TOL/YNG-LAS or GSP-LAS.
I wish those down in the GSP region the best of luck and I urge them to use Allegiant! They are a great carrier!
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
Tornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2208 times:
Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14): I don't think distance is as big as everyone on here portrays. I have seen Allegiant charters from Milwaukee fly all the way down into Puerto Rico;
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2194 times:
The original reason given by the airline was it was uneconomical to fly it at that range with fuel at $70 per barrel...I was later told it was due to the fare pressure out of DTW to keep more seats at the cheaper fares. That is why you see Allegiant only flying TOL-SFB 3x weekly and TOL-PIE 2x weekly. So IMHO, TOL will never see anything big by Allegiant because of fare pressures from DTW.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2191 times:
In terms of the impact of headwinds I will have to let others be the experts on aircraft performance.
Quoting STLGph (Reply 10): and the same couldnt have been done with the Toledo seats?
They could but it depends upon the TOL market. Would they support a higher fare?
Also what would nearby competition do.
Looking at an Aug weekend getaway Fri/Sun the cheapest RT fare I see on TOL-LAS is $299. On GSP-LAS its $399.
If Allegiant was to charge say $100ow/$200 RT as its lowest out of TOL as its lowest fare I would think the competition would lower their fares some what, say to $250. Would a $50 differential be enough to get people to go non-stop AND give up mile earning on other airlines?
And TOL is only an hour or so drive from low LAS fares at Detroit, Spirit is what only $99 or 109 ow on DTW-LAS.
GSP could go up on Allegiant to say $109 or $119 ow, $238 RT. Would the competition cut more than $100 from their fares? It seems excessive to think that.
And GSP is a several hour drive to airports with lower fare service, even then AirTran's lowest is about $350 to LAS for a weekend. Lots of room for Allegiant to play with fares.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
STLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8979 posts, RR: 27 Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2106 times:
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 16): The original reason given by the airline was it was uneconomical to fly it at that range with fuel at $70 per barrel...I was later told it was due to the fare pressure out of DTW to keep more seats at the cheaper fares. That is why you see Allegiant only flying TOL-SFB 3x weekly and TOL-PIE 2x weekly. So IMHO, TOL will never see anything big by Allegiant because of fare pressures from DTW.
If that was the case they wouldn't be serving Lincoln, Belleville, Rockford, Bellingham, etc.
All in all, someone needs to make up their mind and give a definite answer as to why Toledo failed because of yields vs. distance and compare 2005 prices to 2007 prices of fuel for Greenville to Las Vegas and comparative distance.
Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2096 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
When? AA hasn't flown RDU-LAX ever as far as I can tell.. the fartherest west they flew was DFW.
They didn't, though they did fly BNA-LAX with S80s before the arrival of the 738s. IIRC, the route had some runway performance issues and made a lot of pit stops in the summer.
Today, AA does fly ORD-SFO on S80s, which is about the same distance as GSP-LAS (though ORD doesn't get as hot as S.C.).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2056 times:
Quoting STLGph (Reply 18): If that was the case they wouldn't be serving Lincoln, Belleville, Rockford, Bellingham, etc.
OK lets check some of them. I looked at a weekend in late Aug (8/17-19), no reason, and it isn't the highest fare weekend for Allegiant. Fares probably run higher when it isn't the heat of summer.
The fare pressure at the other markets is much different than what is going on at DTW. Checking fares for that same weekend out of DTW, DL has a $211 connection and NK is $252 non-stop. Comparable to SEA-LAS and OMA-LAS but much further in distance.
Lincoln (about 1050 miles to LAS), Allegiant is $178RT, the lowest fare on anyone else is $408 RT. Out of OMA the lowest on anyone is $231 for the same weekend.
Belleville (1400 miles) - Allegiant is $318 RT for that weekend. At STL the lowest appears to be $296 for a connection, $318 non-stop.
Bellingham (950 miles) - Allegiant is getting $178, other airlines are charging $351 RT for a connection. At SEA it is $255 and at YVR is $334.
Yes, BLI and LNK are at $89 ow/$178 RT on Allegiant but a lot closer than GSP or TOL to LAS.
I expect GSP-LAS will rise quickly given the fares available in the Southeast right now.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5531 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1998 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19): When? AA hasn't flown RDU-LAX ever as far as I can tell.. the fartherest west they flew was DFW.
Think way back when AA had hubs at both BNA and RDU. It was prior to AA's 738's.
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1977 times:
The problem with TOL is DTW. There is nothing else wrong with TOL other than DTW. DTW has every LFC (except jetBlue) running fares to LAS and the connections are less then the n/s flights. I was tentatively looking at flying TOL-LAS leaving June 23 coming back Jul 3 (a few months ago) and it was only $250 r/t. Allegiant isn't ever going to match that with 150 seats. The nonstop flights DTW-LAS look like this:
Yes, and with your logic you are saying that a city the size of Toledo, population over 300,000, can't support two weekly flights to Las Vegas because the airport an hour north offers the same fares.
Yet, Rapid City can. At a population of 110,000-ish
Duluth can. At a population of 180,000-ish
MIssoula at 150,000 can do four a week.
Redmond at 23,500 can do two a week.
Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
25 FATFlyer: Not because the other airport OFFERS the same fares, but because those fares are already LOW due to the competition. And they are particularly low gi
26 UncGSO: Wonder if the M80's could reach GSO from LAS then?
27 ERJ170: AA never had flights to LAX from RDU. It was planned, not executed. Ever. The only LAX flights were on Delta and I think Midway had it, but can't be
28 STLGph: It's nice you're trying and all, but are you even buying this Toledo/Detroit nonsense you're spewing? There is no way that airfares out of Detroit are
29 G4resagent: From the press release: “Unfortunately, due to escalating fuel costs and aggressive competitive conditions, we will end our Las Vegas service,” Ma
30 Flyinryan99: How do you not believe that DTW impacts TOL like no other markets in the US? Have you lived in Toledo? Do you know the mentality of Toledoans? If you
31 Delta767: According to airport officials who have spoken with Allegiant, GSO service is doing really well. I wonder if LAS and FLL are on the horizon!! G4 seem
32 FATFlyer: OK, again it is the fares they can get at TOL. On other, shorter routes Allegiant can get the same or more as what is charged out of DTW for LAS meani
33 Womack17: JI (Midway) did RDU-LAX-LAS-RDU on one of their initial 73G's. I flew it many times. Left RDU about 1830 and then came back from LAS as a red-eye! Sa
34 Stlgph: You two are lost in your own dribble. So let's thank G4resagent for summing it quickly and quietly in reply 29.
35 FATFlyer: LOL, my own dribble? I think way back in my first post in reply # 2, I said Basically I said that the fares they could get were too low given the cos
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From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, 
They seem to be doing well in the southern cities.
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