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Qatar Airways Quiet On 787 Orders  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14284 times:

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...27_N25305867&type=comktNews&rpc=44

Qatar Airways still won't say anything about the 787 orders, despite the speculation now aims at Qatar since US Airways ordered A350XWB last week.

153 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14262 times:

As i have said many times before, I do not see Qatar ordering a 787 ever.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14170 times:
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They played coy on their 777 order, so...

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14045 times:

I remember roughly 2 years ago, we had a chat on A.net about QR's rumoured 777 ordered. Many of the fellow forumers were quick to deny it, claiming Qatar wont ever "cheat" on its Airbus relationship....

I smell the same situation here; I think QR will order some 787's in the Dubai Airshow... or maybe later.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9623 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14026 times:
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"I think you have to wait," Qatar Airways CEO Akbar al-Baker said at a media conference in New York on Wednesday, when asked if the airline had ordered 787 planes.

Some odd quotes from al-Baker lately.


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13995 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
"I think you have to wait," Qatar Airways CEO Akbar al-Baker said at a media conference in New York on Wednesday, when asked if the airline had ordered 787 planes.

Some odd quotes from al-Baker lately.

For me this reads like, wait until 7.8.07 then we will announce it during the roll out.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13834 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
For me this reads like, wait until 7.8.07 then we will announce it during the roll out.

 checkmark  It certainly doesn't sound like a denial.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineFlyABR From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 13733 times:

what is it with the bizarre relationship that quatar has with boeing? the wierd 777 order last year...and now these 787s...why so secretive?

User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 13686 times:

But is QR not the launch customer for the A350? Why would they have a plane with such similar layout?


Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 13588 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 3):
I smell the same situation here; I think QR will order some 787's in the Dubai Airshow... or maybe later.

Right along with another 80 A350XWB's, a half-dozen A380's, and, what, 100 or so A319-A321's.

Unlikely, of course, but you just never know.  Wink

(not making any point, not making any comment, not knocking anyone in the least. I can just imagine the look on some faces, that's all).


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 13514 times:

I've never heard the Boeing 777 being called a minijumbo!  rotfl .
I personally believe that the story as reported by the SeattlePI does have some weight to it and that there should have been no need for Mr Al-Baker to give an evasive answer if QR had not ordered the 787s. But I guess time will tell.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 13436 times:

He may be ordering the 788, which would make some sense. The 80 XWB is still not firm from what I am reading, despite being a launch customer. It may be possible that Qatar has a number of 80 in mind for firm frames PLUS options. In this case the latter options are for 3510's to replace the 777's he will be receiving shortly or for expansion at a significantly later date.

Still agressive, but not so crazy sounding.


User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13369 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 9):
Right along with another 80 A350XWB's, a half-dozen A380's, and, what, 100 or so A319-A321's.

Unlikely, of course, but you just never know.

(not making any point, not making any comment, not knocking anyone in the least. I can just imagine the look on some faces, that's all).

Pls. look at the following possible scenario:

You are IMO assuredly right that QATAR do not need 80 aircrafts of the A350/B787 category, much less as firm orders. As commented in another Topic, such a quantity IMHO is only in discussion because Qatar and QR want to appear as a privileged customer, and Qatar is also interested to invest in EADS at also privileged condition.

But independently of how many total such aircraft the really need to order, to rely solely at the still largely undefined A350 both technically (and even if the specs were affirmed, being the delivery so far away) - and timely is a unacceptable risk for any well managed commercial airline. Especially if an alternative is available, as it is, this would be plainly negligent.

Therefore, if they order in the next months (or already have as UFOs) approx. 30 B787 frames and a suitable No. of options (or purchase rights), in the case the A350 order can be finally affirmed when the specs are released and also assuming they want to operate a mixed fleet, they would reduce the quantity to their real additional needs in excess of the B787.
In the opposite case, they could cover their additional needs out of the B787 options or purchase rights.

Comments ??
regards

aminobwana


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13220 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
He may be ordering the 788, which would make some sense. The 80 XWB is still not firm from what I am reading, despite being a launch customer. It may be possible that Qatar has a number of 80 in mind for firm frames PLUS options. In this case the latter options are for 3510's to replace the 777's he will be receiving shortly or for expansion at a significantly later date.

From what I understood during Paris they signed firm (no MoU, no LOI) 20 358s, 40 359s and 20 351s. If you add 30 788s for the lower capacity end and 5 380s, assuming that all other widebodys are gone by then, QR will operate 115 w/b. + ??n/b which they are also looking at, if I remember correctly. An impressive fleet.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offline7cubed From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13040 times:

Quoting WestWing (Reply 10):
I've never heard the Boeing 777 being called a minijumbo! .

I was thinking the same thing...you beat me to it.
 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 



joe
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13013 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 13):
From what I understood during Paris they signed firm (no MoU, no LOI) 20 358s, 40 359s and 20 351s

How do we know this, when the same customer declares yesterday that he does not have the needed info and alternatives of the especifications and previously had also stated the the Ageement allowed them to walk if the specs released later are not satisfactory (whatever this means!) ??

saludos
aminobwana


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12857 times:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 15):
How do we know this, when the same customer declares yesterday that he does not have the needed info and alternatives of the especifications and previously had also stated the the Ageement allowed them to walk if the specs released later are not satisfactory (whatever this means!) ??

I guess we will see it when Airbus shows it on their order book (June?). If they book it as an order, then the contract must be set up in way, that the indenpendant audit firm which signs of on EADSs books is convinced that it is an order according to IFRS (or whatever they are using). Which does not mean that a customer cannot simply cancel an order in 1,2,3.. years if they decide to do so for whatever reason, paying or not paying penalties. But if it shows up on the order book, my assumption would be that QR wants to buy 80 350s and maybe 30 788s.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12345 times:

The 788's would be a nice replacement size-wise for the A332's. Why so much capacity in the Middle East. I am aware of the central location (no pun intended), but being that that area of the world is so unstable right now, would it be better to play it conservative right now?? It just seems weird that between QR, EK, EY, that's a HELLUVA lot of capacity.


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3852 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12259 times:

"I think you have to wait," Qatar Airways CEO Akbar al-Baker said at a media conference in New York on Wednesday, when asked if the airline had ordered 787 planes.

It was neither confirmed, nor denied...so it must be true.  Wink



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12056 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 16):
I guess we will see it when Airbus shows it on their order book (June?).

Well, I am not sure. I do not know if you are aware that AB had all the time in their order book all the old A350, independently if they were exchanged or not for an A350XWB, as well as the A340-600 which order EK cancelled.
Of course, they aduce formalist reasons.

Generally I would say, it is something new: An conditioned agreement, more than an MOU, less than a Firm order

aminobwana


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6885 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11807 times:

Quoting Davescj (Reply 8):
But is QR not the launch customer for the A350? Why would they have a plane with such similar layout?

Because they could get it sooner (especially if they've already ordered 30). Because the -8 is smaller than any of the A350s and may be better for certain routes. To hedge their bets.

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
An conditioned agreement, more than an MOU, less than a Firm order

Which is actually very common. Loads of 'firm' orders include conditions and walk-away clauses. Remember SQ's firm order for MD11s which they then walked away from? You make it sound like there is an unprecedented degree of hesitancy about QR's firm order for 80 A350s. It's actually the kind of contract that's commonplace in the industry.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11602 times:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
Well, I am not sure. I do not know if you are aware that AB had all the time in their order book all the old A350, independently if they were exchanged or not for an A350XWB,

It seems that you are not aware that QR never placed a firm order for a previous version of the A350 and that Airbus never took a QR A350 order up in their orderbooks before.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 9):
and, what, 100 or so A319-A321's.

Not even close to that. More like a dozen.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineAzhobo From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11552 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 1):
As i have said many times before, I do not see Qatar ordering a 787 ever.

The specs were too detailed for them to consider ordering them.

HOBO  Smile


User currently offlineAzhobo From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
Some odd quotes from al-Baker lately.



Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
For me this reads like, wait until 7.8.07 then we will announce it during the roll out.



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 6):
It certainly doesn't sound like a denial.

Agree, if they are not Qatars why not just say it. And add we will not be buynig 787 cause we love and trust in airbus products.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 8):
But is QR not the launch customer for the A350? Why would they have a plane with such similar layout?

That is the easiest to assume an answer: Its called insurance. In case they need to walk away from the A350 deal, they wont have to go to the back of the Boeing line, and pay a much higher premium for a deal at that time. And if A succeeds and Q is happy, they can convert or sell them on the open market for a pretty penny. They also have money to burn if that is not too obvious.

HOBO


User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11407 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 20):
Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
An conditioned agreement, more than an MOU, less than a Firm order

Which is actually very common. Loads of 'firm' orders include conditions and walk-away clauses. Remember SQ's firm order for MD11s which they then walked away from? You make it sound like there is an unprecedented degree of hesitancy about QR's firm order for 80 A350s. It's actually the kind of contract that's commonplace in the industry.

Yes: but this is clearly a problem of degree.. If the order is for a clealy defined aircraft with clear specs, there are chances that the manufacturer is not able to comply with these and the customer walks. A example in other industries is that the specs include a basic component of a certain type and manufacturer, but in the meantime this manufacturer get bankrupt and the end-customer is not able to use the substitute part. A more common cause is a huge not compliance with the delivery time.
But,the risk that such happens is very low

But in the case of the A350, as QR (and other) say, there is no clear spec and again if we believe Al-Bakr, (""With this information unavailable, Qatar Airways has had to define in detail what its expects from the A350 XWB by way of specification and performance and then make this a contractual obligation," and "This part of the airline's purchase agreement is larger than the document that currently serves as Airbus's interim specification")
these specs and performance guarantees originated from a QR wish list

Here, the risk is exponentially larger. And this seems to me is the unprecedented issue !!

Quoting Manni (Reply 21):
Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
Well, I am not sure. I do not know if you are aware that AB had all the time in their order book all the old A350, independently if they were exchanged or not for an A350XWB,

It seems that you are not aware that QR never placed a firm order for a previous version of the A350 and that Airbus never took a QR A350 order up in their orderbooks before.

Manni: I know this. And you conveniently ignore that when I mentioned "all the old A350" I did not mention QR, but as written referred at the orders they received and booked before this model was discontinued, independent of the Qatar issue. And of course, you do not quote nor refer to the second part of my statement, i.e. "as well as the A340-600 which order EK cancelled. Of course, they aduce formalist reasons." which would be example enough for what I am addressing!

aminobwana


25 Post contains images Hamlet69 : "Ever" is a very long time. . . and what's more, the story behind the story is usually even more bizarre. . . Regards, Hamlet69
26 Post contains images DEVILFISH : If somebody did, it would quickly establish itself as one of the most classic oxymorons to have come from A.net!
27 Manni : I haven't ignored anything. I looked at the topic title and your reply. Perhaps you should have mentioned that you're aware that the QR order never a
28 Gunsontheroof : SQ and SU have ordered both... I was wondering what the hell was up with that as well. Adding "mini" kind of negates any imagery conjured up by "jumb
29 PM : I'm sure you know that Crossair (much lamented) called their BAe146s and RJ86/100s "Jumbolinos". It fitted them. Fat, stubby and, with four engines,
30 Post contains images PM : Wow - typo alert! (What's happened to the [edit] function? )
31 Eureka : Prepare to be wrong. I guarantee you will find that you're wrong now and forever on this prediction.
32 Jacobin777 : ....sorry to burst your bubble, but it has been cancelled... " Emirates has cancelled an order for 10 A340-600s, considered as obsolete. In April the
33 Post contains links and images Manni : If the order is still on Airbus' books then it's technically not cancelled, despite reports saying the contrary. Dont worry, I'm well aware that EK w
34 Aminobwana : The Topic title refers to an eventual additional order of B787. We were discussing if such order makes sense if the 80 frames A350 were a firm order.
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .....cancelled is cancelled..what is there not to understand? ..apropos, it has nothing to do with the Airbus, if Boeing did the same thing, I would
36 Shenzhen : So if Airbus say they have a firm order for 80 airplanes AND Qatar say they have made a firm order for 80 airplanes, then we shouldn't believe that?
37 Aminobwana : I am not aware that QATAR has called the order "firm", but could be the said it somewhere. But we are all aware tthey said that they are concerned re
38 N1786b : According to the talk at the Paris Air Show, QATAR was either paid or heavily pressured NOT to unveil their 787 order during last week's AB order bon
39 Post contains links Scbriml : http://www.qatarairways.com/English_...release_Jun18_07.html?lindes.g_5*2 http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...tems/07_06_18_qatar_A350_A380.html Y
40 Stitch : A firm order can be canceled. That fact, however, doesn't make the order any less firm up until the moment it is canceled. Ask Boeing and PR, which c
41 NYC777 : I'm back from my unjustified ban..... Any who, If QR is the customer of the 30 x 788 UFO, my opinion is they'll announce it between now and next Frida
42 Jacobin777 : ..it depends if PR cancelled the order or just let it sit their also.....the EK order has been announced.....now if PR cancelled the order and Boeing
43 Stitch : I believe EK has said they have "canceled" the order, but I also believe they had said they were looking at other Airbus options with the monies orig
44 Aminobwana : I have answered already this argument by my reply 24. Taking your reasoning to the other absurd extreme: Customer tells manufacturer: I need an aircr
45 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...I see your point Stitch...but it should still be removed from the order books...the A346 has been cancelled..it is not a plane which EK will take.
46 Dank : No, I think it would still be an order in the books because I don't think that EK has (or maybe they did with the recent 380 order) actually truly ca
47 Khobar : Paid by - who? Airbus? Boeing?? Scbrimi - what exactly does this mean "signed a contract for the purchase of"? As we've seen in the past, anything si
48 Dank : Well since RR reports this for QR (http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40489): vs. this for the US commitment (http://www.rolls-royce.c
49 Scbriml : I felt the quote from QR's own press release was more relevant. But, I'm sure some a.netter will point out that it doesn't include the magical word "
50 Post contains images Scbriml : I was always told that talk is cheap! I would have thought that QR would have been under as much pressure from Boeing to announce as any alleged pres
51 EI321 : This is true. Emirates never canceled their A340s, even though they wont be delivered. They are probably holding on to them in case they want to conv
52 Danny : As long as EK does not formally notify Airbus of cancellation, the order has to stay on books. Comment in the press that they won't take them is not
53 Post contains images Stitch : With respect, that is not an answer. It is an opinion. To my knowledge, QR has not publicly announced what specifications they expect from the A350.
54 EI321 : As indicated above, airlines will keep unwanted orders on the books for several reasons, including avoiding cancellation penalties and allowing for t
55 Aminobwana : [ If a order by any technical reason (claims or whatever) are maintained in books, even if customer cancelled it, is arrelevant regarding to the FIRM
56 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....with respect Dank, we don't know of the nuances of the contracts...it could very well be that EK will use the deposited money for A380 orders, co
57 Scbriml : Can you provide a link to an Emirates' press release stating this?
58 Aminobwana : See Reply 32 by Jacobin77. Unless you think that all the reporting organs are plainly lying, between them the IHT and WSJ, this shall provide evidenc
59 Scbriml : No I haven't said anyone is lying, but you claimed: I'm asking you to show me that EK press release. I don't think you can. I don't even think you ca
60 AMSSFO : Which in turn has nothing to do with accounting practices.....
61 Post contains links Khobar : Dubai-based airline Emirates has cancelled an order for long-range Airbus A340-600 aircraft. "We will not be taking delivery of these planes," Emirat
62 Aminobwana : "Dubai: Emirates yesterday confirmed it has cancelled orders and options for 20 Airbus A340-600 ** dubainewsonline ""Emirates confirms it will not be
63 Post contains images Scbriml : Thanks, but that wasn't what Aminobwana claimed (and I asked him to provide) - an official EK press release saying they had cancelled. I have seen ju
64 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..spare me the semantics please.... The bulk of payments are due at delivery of the aircraft....no delivery=no large payments...
65 Scbriml : Do you think if the plane was completed and the airline said "Oh, sorry, we've changed our mind." they wouldn't be liable for a significant charge be
66 Post contains images Wsp : " target=_blank>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-...posts You "forgot" this part of the article: So not only is Airbus lying about the EK cancellat
67 Clickhappy : A major US domestic airline, won't name which one, pays in thirds. First third before the airframe is built, second third when production starts, las
68 Khobar : The issue was whether EK had cancelled the order. They have. Period. The order may be taken up by a third party, specifically NOT EK. That doesn't ch
69 Aminobwana : This must be a very rich and manufacturer confident airline, buying a fairly standard product with short time of delivery, More normal: a) 10% agains
70 Post contains images Scbriml : Agreed, I think this type of financial arrangement is fairly standard. I assume the final payment is made before they are allowed to fly the plane aw
71 Dank : No, we don't know that. Even stating it, they may not technically have cancelled it (i.e. completed paperwork to said effect) until they completed th
72 Scbriml : Not quite. I asked for the claimed official EK press release. All I've ever seen is news articles reporting the alleged cancellation. The fact remain
73 Aminobwana : The Order book is a document which, as I already said, serve the purpose to inform the public openly and in good faith about the order situation. it
74 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..and who's to say the plane was even built or started production? ... ....if the plane didn't even start production, then 2/3 of the payment wasn't
75 Khobar : I don't think we do all agree that they have effectively canceled the order - that is, after all, the point of contention here. I agree with much of
76 Scbriml : Given how late in the day EK decided they didn't want the A340s, at the very least considerable components and supplies would have been ordered by Ai
77 Aminobwana : You are right here. If EK cancelled the order without due cause, they must compensate for damages, if any. This do not change the fact that the order
78 Jacobin777 : ...and do you know at what stage the manufacturing process was at?
79 AMSSFO : Basically, we have the following issue at hand: We have someone who firmly states that an announced order is not an order but a commitment, even thoug
80 Post contains images Astuteman : Correct. And as with the "old" A350 FIRM orders, until such time as agreement is reached on what to do with deposit monies/penalty payments etc, ther
81 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : This 5 airplane order is still shown on the Airbus orders spread sheet along with 3 A300 orders. These 8 airframes are also counted in the total A300
82 Stitch : If an entity that held a valid contract with the manufacturer is no longer in existence and nothing replaced it, then I guess there is no way to form
83 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...we finally disagree on something.. Sure the contract is a "legal vehicle"..but we don't know what the contract states..as there could certainly be
84 Post contains links Scbriml : The first of EK's A346s was due for delivery in June. I don't know what that means in terms of physical construction, but presumably all the material
85 Post contains links Scbriml : Nothing strange about it at all. Airbus said the line would be closed in July when the final A300 is delivered. http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre.
86 Jacobin777 : ...if the plane was being manufactured, Airbus would probably have made EK take the plane (probably in the contracts), hence why I'm skeptical that t
87 Scbriml : You may well be right. I honestly don't know how long it takes to build an A340 from scratch, but I'm reasonably sure that at the time EK announced t
88 Stitch : I am pretty sure Airbus couldn't force EK to take the plane. What would be more likely is that the contract has specific penalties for an airline can
89 Jacobin777 : ...could possibly be...personally I have no clue....but we are only hypothesizing..nothing else....at the end of the day, we know EK isn't going to b
90 OldAeroGuy : My mistake, I thought the A300/A310 line was already closed. It'll be interesting to see how the last 5 A310's are book kept in August, as you sugges
91 Mnik101 : With 80 A350's on order, why would QR order 30 787's, as speculated in the article? It doesn't make sense. My guess, and this is purely conjecture and
92 Scbriml : As has been pointed out already in the thread, SQ decided to order 20 of each and SU has ordered 22 of each. Maybe it does make sense if you're going
93 Post contains links Scbriml : Agreed, I do not dispute this in the slightest. My only dispute has been purely at the "contract level" - since, as at end May, Airbus still carried
94 Stitch : QR may want something smaller to start new services, or they may just be hedging their bets. There A350 order is a mix of replacement and expansion,
95 Aminobwana : As for SQ and SU, .possibly pricing and aircraft size were reasons. But If QR orders the 30 B787, the total of both types would be 110 !! If 80 alrea
96 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..its possible you are correct.....but I'm not part of the "conspiracy theory"...I just try to call it as I see it, hence putting both Boeing and Air
97 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Whether you think it's credible or not, that is exactly what QR's stated plan is! http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=3714 Of course
98 Post contains images Scbriml : That comment was not aimed at you.
99 Aminobwana : Even if you accept that the fleet could be increase to 110 in the next 10 years, against the competition of the World's airlines and more particularl
100 Stitch : Just because some people believe the Middle Eastern airlines are shiny baubles owned by oil-rich sheiks who treat the entire thing as a passing fancy
101 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..thanks... ...Two fears of SQ's Chew which he specifically mentioned are 1)long range planes such as the B787 and A350 which can by pass hubs 2)the
102 Stitch : Which is why I believe SQ is investing so heavily in the A388. EK and DXB are a serious threat to SIN's role as a primary "connector hub" for traffic
103 Post contains links and images Scbriml : From the horse's mouth: http://www.qatarairways.com/corp_fleet.html?linkdes_5 Is that good enough for you? No. The simple explanation would be that n
104 Jacobin777 : ..could very well be....hence my comment the A380 will do well for the carriers which have purchased it, but it doesn't mean there was a business mod
105 Aminobwana : Pls. elaborate this. Obviously the B748i is larger than the B744 and therefore can carry more pax as long as configuration is proportional Well, the
106 Aminobwana : Sorry: No! - First you send me an article stating the will have 110 aircrafts in 10 years, i.e. 2017 - Now you send me another that is will be 2015 (
107 Post contains images Scbriml : So QR's own website isn't good enough for you?    I also "forgot" their A340-600s. I'll let you work out what that means.   What I did miss off t
108 Stitch : SQ's new First and Business Class seats take up more floor space then their current product, so they cannot fit as many of the new product into the 7
109 Aminobwana : Lets forget the cargo. Lets assume that the narrowbody will not be expanded, but it cannor be expected they will substitute A320 by A350 or B787. Usin
110 Aminobwana : As I recall now, as discussed under the topic "Is The A380 Still "on Schedule" For Delivery?" Reply 9, EK, Tim Clark had stated that even should thei
111 Aminobwana : Unfortunately, the edit function for my Reply 110 doesn't worked, as it happen; each time a post is previously compressed. Therefore, pls. read the la
112 Gbfra : As a matter of fact LH has expressed concerns about the expansion of EK more than once. Their CEO even spoke to the German chancelor about it.
113 Aminobwana : If EK cannot succeed by the reasons stated here at the Forum (Hubs and trunk lines becoming less attractive) they could, using their deep pockets, tr
114 Scbriml : I left them off the list because I believe the A350s and 787s will completely replace pax A300s, A330s, A340s and 777s. And yes, some of those planes
115 Aminobwana : Very long term I could agree, but to substitute an aircraft because of a not too huge differenec in operative costs too shortly after the delivery me
116 Post contains links Scbriml : The differences will be significant. Just out of interest, while discussing QR fleet size, I missed this: Qatar To Buy 150 Planes By 2015 (by EI321 M
117 EI321 : The A350 will almost certainly replace the A340's, 777s and A330s.
118 Stitch : I imagine not, because EK ordered eight more A388s the same week QR ordered the A350. If they were afraid of over-capacity, why increase your A388 fl
119 Mnik101 : If it had been an order for say 20-30 A350's yes it would make some sense, its 80! QR is not EK, KL, or BA. Is there enough demand to justify the add
120 Stitch : Remember that A350-1000s won't be available until five years after the last 77W is delivered. The first few will replace the A346s, then they might a
121 EI321 : Exactly. Qatar have not told us how long it will take to recieve all of the A350s. Some airlines are ordering new A330's which will be replaced by A3
122 Aminobwana : Are you discarding the possibility that QR wants not more than 80 (incl. options) B787/A350 aircrafts and that if theyorder now 30 B787, this would b
123 Stitch : No, we're not discarding it. Nor are we focusing on it. It's a possibility, but at this point, it's just one of many and I give it no more weight the
124 Aminobwana : But it will be much cheaper to buy a used A332 that airlines which receive the B787 will discard ! And my question is precisely: what will NW do with
125 Wsp : If your theory were true they would have ordered 787-9s, yet the 30 UFO order is for 787-8s.
126 Atmx2000 : Their direct competitors have the option of providing direct service that doesn't go through DXB.
127 Aminobwana : * we do not know that the UFOS are for Qatar * assuming they are, it is very possible that QR wants the smaller 788, but when placing the 80 order to
128 Stitch : True, but DXB may prove to be a more favorable transit/lay-over point with passengers then SIN or HKG. Why do they have to immediately discard them?
129 Post contains links and images Scbriml : They can't cancel 30 A358s, they only ordered 20 of that model! Why are you so fixated on QR cancelling A350s they ordered just two weeks ago? QR see
130 Danny : Because the order is still on Airbus books. Imo Emirates is waiting until they order something else from Airbus. This would allow them to use deposit
131 Aminobwana : [ First, QR spoke of Fleet 110 in 10 years Then, 110 in 2015 Now, 150 in 2015 You can call this a fixation, but I do not believe these statements. Nev
132 Post contains links Scbriml : I suspect this is their only agenda: http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/05/28/10128225.html What investment in EK?
133 Post contains images Aminobwana : I will not repeat here that there will be a strong upswing of the Gulf airlines as long the the competition will have enough B787/A350 to skip the hu
134 Stitch : At one time, all airlines were small. In the "long term", many of them became mighty big. I see no inherent reason why EK or QR, if they continue to
135 Moo : The mythical man month is just that, mythical.
136 Aminobwana : No doubt. But no airline as far as I remember was able to grow so quickly and basing on by far not ensured market conditions as it is their reliance
137 Stitch : Well, let's come back to this in 2027 and see how the Middle Eastern carriers are faring...
138 Jacobin777 : ..that's a circular argument....I've been stating it shouldbe removed....
139 Post contains images Aminobwana : Just my point !! I will do the best, given I am 76 !! aminobwana
140 Moo : Well, your wish has come true - the orders have been removed from the Airbus O&D spreadsheet during June.
141 Stitch : QR is official. They were part of the 787 Customer Presentation at the 787 Dreamliner Launch.
142 Wants2fly : Wow... right on time Dish Network just ended the show. What a beautiful day for this beautifu bird. I can not wait to fly her. Thanks boeing!
143 BWIA 772 : Yes I saw the Qatar tail!!
144 MIASkies : DITTO! I saw the Qatar tail!!!
145 Eatmybologna : But did Qatar announce an order?
146 Stitch : Not yet. I expect they will shortly since the cat is now out of the bag.
147 RJ_Delta : Yes It was a Qatari tail during the show. If Boeing show an image or logo of the company so if confirmed that Qatar Airways will be a new Dreamliner c
148 Post contains images Kalakaua : Thanx DrChristopherWu.
149 Post contains links LN-MOW : http://www.7days.ae/showstory.php?id=54044 Qatar Airways is poised to unveil a five billion-dollar order for 30 Boeing 787 airplanes, the UK’s Sunda
150 Aminobwana : The article mentioned if from today July 8 (yesterday for Europe and Abu Dabi, given the time zone) The Source could be eventually the same rumors as
151 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..it has nothing to do with "my wish"..its the proper ethical thing to do....
152 Moo : It has nothing to do with ethics, it has everything to do with due process of the cancellation. Emirates saying 'we wont be taking the aircraft' does
153 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...that web page for the most part is for media purposes anyway.....again, its not just Airbus, I would expect the same from Boeing and would call th
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