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Future Of LHR-DTW-IAH  
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

With BA moving 2 flights to LHR effective MArch 30...what is the future of the 767 one stop between IAH and LHR....and will BA keep one of the 3 IAH flights at LGW for the leisure crowds.

the LHR move has got to hurt LH the most as AF and KL have lots of Skyteam members in houston because of CO.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Sorry just realized it is already being discussed in another post.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

The flight will soon be history. At that time BA will have 2 flights to LHR and none to LGW.

There are 2 other threads that discuss this in depth.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Don't you mean DFW instead of DTW???

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

This flight will be dropped......the only reason that BA ran a flight to Houston via Detroit (and previously, via Chicago) was to allow a direct connection between Heathrow and Houston......by offering a direct flight between Houston and Heathrow, BA could offer connections to many Gulf and African destinatons that are popular with the business men and women working in the oil industry....those full fare/premium cabin type passengers from the oil industry, I should say.

With Bermuda 2 coming to an end, and with BA shifting their nonstop Houston-London services to Heathrow, there is no need to offer the onestop flights via another US city and the onestop flights will be terminated.


User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

I'd be willing to bet that BA 202/203 will have different departure and arrival times. I'd look up the older departure/arrival times shortly. I just hope that LHR-DTW-LHR will be able to sustain reasonable yields.

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 3):
Don't you mean DFW instead of DTW???

No, we mean DTW. DTW has had service to LHR for over 4 decades, but IAH is only served with service to LGW (see Bermuda II). In order to connect IAH and LHR BA routes the flight through DTW. Previously this flight went through ORD (IAH-ORD-LHR).

When BA tacked on IAH to this flight it really messed up the DTW-LHR departure times.

As a side, prior to the demise of PA, PA also flew DTW-LHR. This route was not part of the sale of LHR authority to UA and was transferred to DL when they took over the Atlantic division of PA.

DL ran a short lived service between DTW and LGW before it was sold to NW.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3667 times:

With Bermuda II coming to an end, do you think we will see any direct MCO - LHR flights?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 7):
With Bermuda II coming to an end, do you think we will see any direct MCO - LHR flights?

We could.....depending upon slot and scheduling availibility, I think that at some point BA and VS will consolidate their transatlantic operations at Heathrow. Orlando is not a priority and likely will be one of the later services to transfer to LHR, probably not until after Terminal 5 opens at LHR.


User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

I found the previous times for when BA 202/203 terminated at DTW

Previous (Future?)
Departing From : Detroit
18:20
Arriving At : Heathrow (London)
07:00

Current:
22:35 Depart Detroit
Arrive 11:00 Heathrow (London)


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33278 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):

We could.....depending upon slot and scheduling availibility, I think that at some point BA and VS will consolidate their transatlantic operations at Heathrow. Orlando is not a priority and likely will be one of the later services to transfer to LHR, probably not until after Terminal 5 opens at LHR.

Virgin seems very, very happy with their split operation. Premium routes from Heathrow and leisure routes from Gatwick. With slots at Heathrow at a premium, it is highly unlikely Virgin will waste those slots on flights to Orlando and Caribbean resorts.

British Airways is another story, I could see them leaning towards an all-LHR long-haul operation. Nonetheless, it is safe to say, IMO, that Tampa and Orlando will stay Gatwick routes for now.



a.
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3464 times:

I actually like the late night DTW departure as connections in LHR are not so bad, since there is a bank at around 1pm. Otherwise, if all else fails, and you're flight on NW, AF or LH is cancelled due to mx or not weather related, you have enough time to be rebooked onto the BA flight. (happened to me once). I like the late night departure, and since London is the shortest European route from DTW, it's okay that it leaves later in the evening.

I'm sure the flight will remain. I don't see BA dropping DTW, if it has lasted this long, it will remain.



LH 442
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3450 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 5):
I just hope that LHR-DTW-LHR will be able to sustain reasonable yields.

I am sure it will. A 763ER is not particularly hard to make money with.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBAOPS777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

There is a good chance the route will be dropped. BA may have served DTW for 4 decades but times change.

Back then the UK had a thriving automotive manafacturing industry. Now it has almost all gone to Germany, France and Japan

I cant see them operating past winter 07. The slots can be used easily and if the 767 are going to the business class only fleet they will definatly not put a 777 on the route.


User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
This flight will be dropped......the only reason that BA ran a flight to Houston via Detroit (and previously, via Chicago) was to allow a direct connection between Heathrow and Houston.

care to elaborate?

BA did not only make their IAH flight go through here just to offer a connection to LHR, but also because DTW is far less delay prone than ORD so it improved the flight's on-time record.

As for BA axing DTW, I'll believe it when I see it. With NW soon flying DTW-LHR, what makes you think BA will give in to the competition?


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 14):
care to elaborate?

Sure.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 14):
BA did not only make their IAH flight go through here just to offer a connection to LHR

Oh yes they did.........BA needed a way to get IAH pax into Heathrow (IAH-LHR was not possible under Bermuda 2) so it flew a IAH-DTW-Heathrow service in the recent months.......in the past the flight routed via ORD.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 14):
As for BA axing DTW, I'll believe it when I see it. With NW soon flying DTW-LHR, what makes you think BA will give in to the competition

Who said that BA would drop Detroit altogether? The IAH-DTW-LHR service will become history with the introduction of IAH-LHR, and DTW-LHR will become a stand-alone service operated by the 763.

And, you should note that DTW-LHR is among BA's worst peforming transatlantic routes, so dont speak so strongly.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
With Bermuda 2 coming to an end, and with BA shifting their nonstop Houston-London services to Heathrow, there is no need to offer the onestop flights via another US city and the onestop flights will be terminated.

This is what I said, and loose the attitude.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 14):
With NW soon flying DTW-LHR,

Do you know something that the rest of us dont? Did NW get slots at LHR for the Detroit flight and from whom? Just because NW can fly into Heathrow does not mean that they can or will.


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Do you know something that the rest of us dont? Did NW get slots at LHR for the Detroit flight and from whom? Just because NW can fly into Heathrow does not mean that they can or will.

I've heard that this may be happening too. NW doesn't like being so far out of the city at LGW and I think with Skyteam partnership look for slots to be redivided.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

Quoting Neilalp (Reply 17):
look for slots to be redivided.

Do you have any idea what prime time Heathrow slots are valued at? If NW moves to Heathow (which is very possible), they will have to pay their Skyteam partners (or another airline) lots of money to get those slots......AF or KL will simply not ""redivide"" their slots. Also consider that DL and CO are in the market for Heathrow slots and are looking for help from KL and AF, so its not that simple.


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
so its not that simple

That's right, I never said this was simple and or cheap or even how it is going to happen. But I know LHR is something NW is really look at for summer 08.


User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
Oh yes they did.........BA needed a way to get IAH pax into Heathrow (IAH-LHR was not possible under Bermuda 2) so it flew a IAH-DTW-LHR service in the recent months.......in the past the flight routed via ORD.

that is true, yet I quote....

Quote:
From what I understood is that the IAH-ORD-LHR flight loads had been pretty good, and that on occasion they couldn't carry too many ORD pax--so it could be an effort to boost DTW yields versus poor IAH yields.

Then why did they move the IAH flight here from ORD? You're contradicting yourself. If DTW were a better performing destination for BA, then the IAH would have likely stayed in ORD. Though DTW's low yields and ORD poor handling of delays adds made the move more practical.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
And, you should note that DTW-LHR is among BA's worst peforming transatlantic routes, so dont speak so strongly.

I'm well aware that BA has been in a deep hole here for some time. Then why would I not post in threads pertinent to this? It is a topic that I closely follow as BA's decisions here will have an effect on me.

For future reference, you might want to read what you write before posting. It can be a bit misleading at times.  Wink

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
This is what I said, and loose the attitude.

I wasn't holding up an attitude. I was only asking for your reasoning behind BA's move. Again I do accept your answer for satisfying Bermuda II, but honestly there are more factors behind it as I stated which are as equally sensible as Bermuda II, but not as dominating.  Smile


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
Then why did they move the IAH flight here from ORD?

Because the could more easily sell the seats out of ORD and at better prices. That Detroit' s one BA flight to London (on the smallest member of BA's longhaul fleet) was combined with the IAH to Heathrow operation is not a good sign concerning the performance of DTW in BA's network.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
Though DTW's low yields and ORD poor handling of delays adds made the move more practical.

The Houston-Heathrow operation catered to premium pax (going on to AFrica or the Gulf) who mainly sat upfront...Detroit struggles with filling the premium cabin.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
For future reference, you might want to read what you write before posting. It can be a bit misleading at times.

Excuse me. No one else seems to have a problem understanding my posts.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
You're contradicting yourself. If

And how would I be doing that?

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
If DTW were a better performing destination for BA,

Its clearly not.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
Quote:
From what I understood is that the IAH-ORD-LHR flight loads had been pretty good, and that on occasion they couldn't carry too many ORD pax--so it could be an effort to boost DTW yields versus poor IAH yields.

I never said that........please dont attribute things to me that I never said.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 20):
I was only asking for your reasoning behind BA's move.

Which has been stated and you simply dont want to accept......with Bermuda 2 coming to and end, there is no need to for flights such as IAH-DTW-LHR. End of story. Now, the BA DTW-LHR flight must succeed on its own or it will be scrapped.

[Edited 2007-07-01 01:01:03]

[Edited 2007-07-01 01:02:56]

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
And, you should note that DTW-LHR is among BA's worst peforming transatlantic routes, so dont speak so strongly.

I would REALLY be surprised if this route had the title of worst! The numerous times I have flown it, it had decent loads in all classes.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 22):
I would REALLY be surprised if this route had the title of worst! The numerous times I have flown it, it had decent loads in all classes

I said ""AMONG the worst performing", and the IAH connection was an attempt to boost loads in the premium cabins. I believe that Detroit is the only US city that BA serves with a single 763 flight per day.

This is coming out sounding all wrong, I hope that BA can make its Detroit service work.....its a piece of history as BA has been flying into Detroit for years and years. Its interesting that LH has gone double daily on the DTW-FRA service (and reportedly is doing well with the increased capacity) yet BA is struggling in Detroit. Lets hope for the best.


User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):

Because the could more easily sell the seats out of ORD and at better prices. That Detroit' s one BA flight to London (on the smallest member of BA's longhaul fleet) was combined with the IAH to Heathrow operation is not a good sign concerning the performance of DTW in BA's network.

ok so now you're making up more reasons behind the move. Nice try for attempting to redeem yourself, but again

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
The Houston-Heathrow operation catered to premium pax (going on to AFrica or the Gulf) who mainly sat upfront...Detroit struggles with filling the premium cabin.

Please tell me you see some sense in that and what I've been saying. DTW has next to no premium pax, IAH does. Do the math; I know you can.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
Excuse me. No one else seems to have a problem understanding my posts.

Though saying "scrapping DTW" unto itself seems a bit different from what you originally meant, don't you think?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
And how would I be doing that?

Look above

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):

I never said that........please dont attribute things to me that I never said.

I never said you yourself said that. It was in a thread that you responded in, however.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):

Its clearly not.

Of course it's not. Everybody here knows that. Then again I said IF. Big difference there.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
Which has been stated and you simply dont want to accept......with Bermuda 2 coming to and end, there is no need to for flights such as IAH-DTW-LHR. End of story. Now, the BA DTW-LHR flight must succeed on its own or it will be scrapped.

Who said I wasn't accepting it? I was just stating that there's more reasoning behind 202/203's move than just "Oh we can't serve IAH-LHR direct because of Bermuda 2. Let's just tack it on to the end of a flight that is going to / coming from LHR until we can do such a thing." That's it! Nothing more, nothing less!

If DTW overall gets scrapped, oh well. C'est la vie, life goes on. Sure DTW's image would be greatly damaged, but it's all about yields. BA's move here is/was (in my opinion) a last ditch effort to try and save this flight. If you say it's to lower the prices down here, then fine. The only way I'd buy such a thing is by figures from reliable sources and not something pulled out of thin air. Apparently that's what it seems like you're doing. I on the other hand look back through previous threads as proof. It's fair game.

By the way I find it rather amusing that you edited your post twice. I guess my advice could be put to good use.


25 Dtwclipper : You keep saying this, but have yet to provide any source to you assertation. From where to you get your information?
26 Dutchjet : This is the exact reasoning. You are a strange one. I editted to correct a spelling error. And, why at 16 years old, does the DTW-LHR flight so deepl
27 Luv2fly : I believe BWI is also a 767 unless that has either changed or BWI is no longer in the USA?
28 Dutchjet : Good catch, forgot that one!
29 Post contains images LHboyatDTW : As one who occasionally flies to Europe, it could simply affect what options I have for traveling to Europe and for the record, I'm currently 18 . as
30 Dutchjet : BA's actions concerning Detroit service speak for themselves......but for further information, I would contact our expert: He believes that he is so
31 TymnBalewne : BA's DTW/LHR service has struggled for years. I'd hazard a guess that for the nearly 50 years BA's been on the route DTW has only had it's own aircra
32 VV701 : All BA long haul flights from LGW are trans-Atlantic. Although I am sure BA would prefer it if they could consolidate all its long haul flights at LH
33 LHboyatDTW : as if you're any better? Face it, you're not in the industry, yet you claim to have a source at CO though my take is that you just talk to the gate a
34 LHboyatDTW : Besides Dutchjet, after I explained one additional reason to the 202/203 swtich, you immediately switched positions on your statement from Bermuda II
35 Dutchjet : Lovely comment......you dont know who I am, who my sources are, or what I do for a living.....lets make it clear, I am not an 18 year old who thinks
36 LHboyatDTW : Have term papers and sources taught you anything? I at first intended not to start a fight, but rather prove that there are more pieces to the puzzle
37 BCALBOY : Facts are that the reason for introducing a LHR-IAH route was to provide a link for transfer passengers. The catalyst for this was when BA moved the L
38 Dutchjet : Huh? You really are ill. Are you done now? Go get a life. Moderators - please delete all of the posts by LHboyat DTW; the uncalled for personal attac
39 UPPERDECKFAN : As a OW FF I hope BA keeps DTW on their network since already it's very poorly served by OW carriers. Currently it's a pain on the neck to get from Eu
40 Post contains images UPPERDECKFAN : Seems like I'm the only frequent flyer of BA LHR-DTW-LHR in this forum Any input from a BA insider on whether DTW will kept is apreciated
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