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Air Tahiti Nui Start JFK-LAX Non-stop, Eff. 5 Sep  
User currently offlineBkkair From Thailand, joined Aug 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

Effective 5 Sep. The November schedule shows back to non-stop PPT-JFK. This is not going to help them build the JFK-PPT route up.

--3-5-- TN 202 P A J D Z I Y M LAXJFK- 800A 410P 343 BB 0


--3-5-- TN 201 P A J D Z I Y M JFKLAX- 600P 915P 343 SS 0

Full routing PPT-LAX-JFK
--2-4-- TN 202 P A J D Z I Y M PPTJFK- 645P 410P#1 343 DD 1

Full routing JFK-LAX-PPT
--3-5-- TN 201 P A J D Z I Y M JFKPPT- 600P 435A#1 343 SS 1

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20550 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Quoting Bkkair (Thread starter):
This is not going to help them build the JFK-PPT route up.

If it's just for Sept/Oct, is that a low season for travel to Tahiti? Perhaps they're doing it that way to save the route.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1841 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7995 times:

This is really a non-sense to me. TN is loosing tons of money on PPT-JFK. They should code-share with AA or DL on JFK-LAX to feed their LAX-PPT

User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7980 times:

No local traffic rights, correct?


Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 3):
No local traffic rights, correct?

As Air Tahiti is a French airline......No.

Quoting Bkkair (Thread starter):
Effective 5 Sep. The November schedule shows back to non-stop PPT-JFK. This is not going to help them build the JFK-PPT route up

Is this the beginning of the end of the JFK-PPT route, a route that never performed anywhere near expectations? The onestop service makes little sense, JFK pax can be handled with a codeshare. It will be curious to see if Air Tahiti opens a new city in the near future.....SFO or YVR are possibilities.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7556 times:

Actually considering NZ has pulled out of PPT-LAX and is now codesharing with TN they probably need the extra capacity on PPT-LAX .. I doubt this helps the JFK route unless NZ codeshare to JFK with TN at some stage otherwise i can see this being dropped at some stage ..


"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineEYFlyer88 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

I honestly think the main things that kept TN on the NYC market was the cargo tonnage they received. Since the TN flight continues to SYD (a major area of export from the U.S.) all the flights were filled to the walls in the cargo area. Passenger wise.. I heard their loads were awful from JFK


There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
User currently offlineBkkair From Thailand, joined Aug 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

This story just in from the The Tahiti Presse
http://www.tahitipresse.pf/index.cfm?snav=see&presse=20522&lang=2

that TN expects to cut their loss from US$42.8M in 2006 to only US$5.78M in 2007.

They also reveal that on the airline's New York route, there were 36.3% fewer passengers in April 2007 on 38.5% fewer seats and 29.8% fewer passengers in May 2007 on 30.8% fewer seats, compared with a year ago.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7204 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):

Is this the beginning of the end of the JFK-PPT route, a route that never performed anywhere near expectations?

The route was a pipedream to a market that has proven to be a money loser for years..

CorsAir, AOM, Air New Zealand, Qantas have all flown to Tahiti from the US in the past. The destination does not have the demand to sustain multiple airlines service. Air France has held on so long as it is the only service from Europe by a known airline, now with a plane change, and is supported the most part by political and tour contracts.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
The onestop service makes little sense, JFK pax can be handled with a codeshare.

JFK should have never been started. If anything service should have been flown to San Francisco.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 5):
Actually considering NZ has pulled out of PPT-LAX and is now codesharing with TN they probably need the extra capacity on PPT-LAX ..

There is not a strong demand for service from LAX-PPT. The existing service by Air France and TN is more than enough.

Quoting EYFlyer88 (Reply 6):
Passenger wise.. I heard their loads were awful from JFK

I flew JFK-PPT last August the entire aircraft must have had an LF of about 40%. Of which 90% were in Economy.

-JD


User currently offlineThirteenRight From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7164 times:

Another airline that could benefit from a codeshare with JetBlue (IMHO). JetBlue could advertise codeshare on JFK-PPT, LAX and CDG (if they still operate that leg, not sure) while TN could have access to JetBlue's pax base.

I suggested it once to B6 but when its not their own idea, they frown upon it.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 9):
Another airline that could benefit from a codeshare with JetBlue (IMHO). JetBlue could advertise codeshare on JFK-PPT, LAX and CDG (if they still operate that leg, not sure) while TN could have access to JetBlue's pax base.

Problem is that B6 would be gaining very little yield from such a relationship. Adding fuel to the fire B6 does not serve LAX.

-JD


User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7001 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Is this the beginning of the end of the JFK-PPT route, a route that never performed anywhere near expectations?

Perhaps. Or, perhaps this may become the question that will replace that other mystery, "When will NWA retire the DC-9s?"

Quoting Bkkair (Reply 7):
TN expects to cut their loss from US$42.8M in 2006 to only US$5.78M in 2007.

They also reveal that on the airline's New York route, there were 36.3% fewer passengers in April 2007 on 38.5% fewer seats and 29.8% fewer passengers in May 2007 on 30.8% fewer seats, compared with a year ago

Not sure I follow...they cut their losses....with fewer pax? Am I following that correctly?



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

This only operates on 05SEP, 12SEP, 19SEP only as extra flight

JFK-LAX is for international online connection or stop over traffic only.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6933 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
There is not a strong demand for service from LAX-PPT. The existing service by Air France and TN is more than enough

What are you talking about? The fact that AF and TN serve the route more than daily with large aircraft shows the demand.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6903 times:

well the fares from JFK are not very competitive especially when u take into account that east coast based pax could travel to the caribbean in less than a quarter of the time for one third the cost.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
There is not a strong demand for service from LAX-PPT. The existing service by Air France and TN is more than enough

What are you talking about? The fact that AF and TN serve the route more than daily with large aircraft shows the demand.

How many of these passengers originate in the United States versus France? In addition, are the majority of both the travelers (French and US) on package deals which include cheap airfare from consolidators, or is PPT considered to be a luxury/expensive vacation?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6875 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):

How many of these passengers originate in the United States versus France?

TN focuses on US originating traffic, Air France on French traffic.

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):
In addition, are the majority of both the travelers (French and US) on package deals which include cheap airfare from consolidators, or is PPT considered to be a luxury/expensive vacation?

PPT has always been considered a luxury vacation. Further, the deals negotiated with consolidators are not going to be negotiated with loss making in mind. Why do you think the Pleasant Hawai'ian contract is so prized and was fought over and seen as a huge coup for United?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
The route was a pipedream to a market that has proven to be a money loser for years..

CorsAir, AOM, Air New Zealand, Qantas have all flown to Tahiti from the US in the past. The destination does not have the demand to sustain multiple airlines service. Air France has held on so long as it is the only service from Europe by a known airline, now with a plane change, and is supported the most part by political and tour contracts



Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
JFK should have never been started. If anything service should have been flown to San Francisco.

I agree that Air Tahiti took a risk with the New York service and it did not work out as expected.......the demand is simply not there (its long, far and expensive for a beach holiday out of th east coast) and Air Tahiti never got a portion of the JFK-SYD market that they hoped to attract. TN really thought that the ""been there, done that"" NYC crowd would go to Tahiti as an alternative to the caribbean and mexico.....guess not.

But, there is demand to Tahiti and its growning.....AF and TN do well with the LAX route and maybe SFO would have been a better idea. QF dropped PPT when it dropped service to most pacific islands, and NZ always did well with the PPT route when they flew it, they are now trying someting different with TN which offers a lot of frequency in the LAX-PPT market (NZ never flew the route more then 3 or 4 times per week). Ancient history, who remebers CO's LAX-PPT-AKL-SYD/MEL DC10 services? Its gonna be interesting to see what TN does next......Tahiti is absolutely beautiful and well worth the trip, its just very far and very expensive for most travellers.

Yeilds on the route are rather good, and the tourist demand is high-end. Also remember that Princess cruises homeports atleast one ship at PPT for the entire year.


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
As Air Tahiti is a French airline......No.

Damn, so much for non-reving on the LAX-JFK route!



Go big or go home
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6767 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
PPT has always been considered a luxury vacation.

Don't neglect the French civil servants flying to/from the homeland on government-paid tickets. I hear the French government is rather generous with flight benefits (and pay), and I'm pretty sure that's a sizable chunk of revenue for Air Tahiti.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 11):
Not sure I follow...they cut their losses....with fewer pax? Am I following that correctly?

The loss that's being cut is for the company as a whole, not just the JFK route. Another way to read it would be to say that the airline would/could have cut its loss even more if it hadn't lost passengers to/from JFK.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6698 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
What are you talking about? The fact that AF and TN serve the route more than daily with large aircraft shows the demand

The demand is thin, the need for a nonstop JFK-PPT service is just not there. At least not there on the frequency that TN sees fit to serve the route. There are so many other places to go that are closer to New York. For one New York has a lot of tourists heading to Brasil in the Northern Winter, as well as the Caribbean. If New Yorkers are going to go somewhere exotic, they are more likely to end up in Phuket than Bora Bora. Additionally the cost of the overwater bungalows in Tahiti is just out of sight. Last year we had an 1Br Overwater villa that was $1350.00 per night plus a per person fee of $55.00 plus taxes of about another 11% x 3 nights. It just was not worth it compared to other exotic destinations such as Maldives, Mauritius, Seychelles, or Vietnam.

It is not brain science to figure that people look for value, as well as other things. One of the things I was most disappointed with in Tahiti were the bugs, the bugs began on Bora Bora. It was even more out of control when we went to Tahaa, and the bugs were even more out of control. This time in swarms.. However it has been heard from friends and family of mine that apparently the bugs on Tahaa have become worse and worse in recent years, yet it is not mentioned in tourist information on Tahiti for some unknown reason..  Sad

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Why do you think the Pleasant Hawai'ian contract is so prized and was fought over and seen as a huge coup for United?

Coup?

The reason that United Airlines got the contract was due to their strength in the Los Angeles and San Francisco to Hawaii sectors. Combined with its connections options from Denver and Chicago. Of which they are the number one airline to Hawaii. They got the route due to number of flights.. If the other airlines wanted to bombard the low yielding Hawaiian market, they by chance could have been awarded the contract as well.. Hawaiian was taken out of the running for the Pleasant Hawaiian contract because of lack of flights East of Phoenix, which limited the contracts value on the end of Pleasant Hawaiian. At that time Delta was considering a more in-depth realm of services to Hawaii, yet that went away with the better utilization of equipment on long-haul international services.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
PPT has always been considered a luxury vacation.

Indeed it has, thus the demand for so much air traffic is unwarranted.. It has been talked about often, I am not sure on here, but around the industry that TN has had money problems for years. It has tried to promote Tahiti as a connecting ground to Australia and New Zealand with its marketing campaigns in NYC, and Los Angeles. However as can be seen it is a much better value to fly Qantas on the more direct routing via Los Angeles than to go the 130 miles out of your way and pay a fortune for a day or two that could be better spent on Hamilton Island or Hayman Island, AU.

-JD


User currently offlineCOERJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

Although JFK-PPT traffic isn't all too great, PPT makes a great stopover when traveling to Auckland and Sydney, with convenient stopovers and more competitive prices than those through LAX/SFO.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5102 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 19):
Don't neglect the French civil servants flying to/from the homeland on government-paid tickets. I hear the French government is rather generous with flight benefits (and pay), and I'm pretty sure that's a sizable chunk of revenue for Air Tahiti.

Most of the government traffic goes on AF.

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 18):

Damn, so much for non-reving on the LAX-JFK route!

Not so fast. Remember, QF allows people to non-rev on their LAX-JFK service, so I am guessing TN will to. The key is that it is non-revenue traffic, so it isn't cabotage

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):

The demand is thin

If it is so thin, why in the world has the route supported multiple widebodied aircraft for years?

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):

The reason that United Airlines got the contract was due to their strength in the Los Angeles and San Francisco to Hawaii sectors.

If that was the case, ATA wouldn't have held the contract for more than a decade.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
QF allows people to non-rev on their LAX-JFK

I didn't know non-revs could hop on that one too!

Looks like I'm going to Kennedy sooner than I thought  Smile



Go big or go home
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 9):
JetBlue could advertise codeshare on JFK-PPT, LAX and CDG

not on JFK-LAX

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 23):
Looks like I'm going to Kennedy sooner than I thought

...you're in the industry now Pudgy??


25 FLYGUY767 : Forgetting that PPT was used by QF as a fuel stop, with traffic rights? It was the same csae for Continental Airlines as well. NZ was on the route fo
26 AA61Hvy : Fedex, Right Said Fred
27 Post contains images Malaysia : Tahiti needs to get an A319 for LAX-JFK and Air France needs to get an A319LR for LAX-PPT
28 Luniew : Im flying out on sept 5th and coming back on 18th from JFK for PPT. So the flight from LAX -PPT and PPT-JFK is a add on or they took a scheduled fligh
29 AF Cabin Crew : Ia Orana Luniew ! Your flight has now become PPT-LAX-JFK. There is no nonstop flight to JFK from the 5th of September and on !
30 Jimyvr : Looks like ATN will still fly 2 weekly PPT-JFK, but return will be 1 nonstop, 1 via LAX.
31 Koruman : TN ae doing a good job of throwing away a potentially lucrative market. know that there are closer, cheaper destinations to the East Coast, but the se
32 Post contains images N1120A : QF had nothing to do with the conversation Reduced? Where else is the aircraft supposed to come from? Um, they were on the route for how many years?
33 FLYGUY767 : It does and is part of the conversation as QF code-shares/d with TN, and QF leaving the market on their own metal is just another example of how diff
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