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Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6646 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...06-10-santa-fe-regional-jets_N.htm

Could this really be a major milestone for the Santa Fe Municipal Airport? SAF has been a rather neglected airport, with most people choosing to fly into ABQ instead. The only current service that SAF offers is on Great Lakes Airlines to Denver on Beechcraft 1900D aircraft. Pacific Wings subsidiary New Mexico Airlines intends on starting connection service from SAF to ABQ on Cessna Caravan aircraft, however, that route has flopped in the past when Mesa used to operate the route. While the Cessna Caravan may be more appropriately sized than the Beech 1900D for the route, the upcoming extension of the New Mexico Rail Runner Express may kill the route. I am pretty sure that fares for the Rail Runner will be much cheaper than any airfare to ABQ.

The City of Santa Fe envisions potential routes to Dallas and to Los Angeles on RJs. However, I personally believe that they should better advertise the airport before any new routes to major hubs begin. Currently, Great Lakes codeshares with United and Frontier on the SAF-DEN route, but if the service expansion turns out to be a success, United just might upgrade the SAF-DEN route to RJs.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

That airport probably couldn't support anything more than 1 RJ a day to DEN or DFW.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The only current service that SAF offers is on Great Lakes Airlines to Denver on Beechcraft 1900D aircraft.

Considering it's DEN and codeshared with UA... a Dash 8 and/or E120 would be a better first step before the high CASM RJ's. As for DFW/LAX, is 8342' going to be long enough for an RJ at an airport that is 6348' high? Summertime density altitudes have to be insanely high.


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Dash 8

No  no 

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
E120

Yes  yes 



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Considering it's DEN and codeshared with UA... a Dash 8 and/or E120 would be a better first step before the high CASM RJ's

Actually, UA considered that a few years ago, but those plans have seemed to have been abandoned. About a year later, Great Lakes Airlines considered ending the SAF-DEN service, but the city fought hard to keep it.

Didn't there used to be SAF-PHX service in the late 1990s? If the service expansion is a success, I wouldn't be suprised if the route would make a return. An SAF-SLC route on Delta Connection/SkyWest might also work.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

ExpressJet is supposed to be starting SAF-LAX as DLConn. This thread has a post that it was already internally announced with the public announcement coming soon. See reply # 34
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3469933



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
ExpressJet is supposed to be starting SAF-LAX as DLConn. This thread has a post that it was already internally announced with the public announcement coming soon. See reply # 34

Can't wait to fly on that, my family has always wanted to go to Santa Fe.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Didn't there used to be SAF-PHX service in the late 1990s?

America West ran this service.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Already loaded into DL's desktop schedule:

SAF-LAX DL7708 dep SAF 8AM arr LAX 9AM
LAX-SAF DL7707 dep LAX 6PM arr SAF 9PM
1X Daily Starting Oct 5



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

I smell a Lynx in the air!


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I am pretty sure that fares for the Rail Runner will be much cheaper than any airfare to ABQ.

Yes, and just as fast

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
As for DFW/LAX, is 8342' going to be long enough for an RJ at an airport that is 6348' high?

Absolutely. The CR2ER can do a standard day take off at MTOW from 5800'. DFW and LAX are both well within normal range capabilities of the aircraft, so you are not worried about needing a full load of fuel, and the 2500' buffer aids as well

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 3):
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Dash 8

No no

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
E120

Yes

The problem there is that the Brasilia didn't do particularly well with the altitude in Denver. I am sure United would love to have OO operating for them otherwise.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3442 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
The problem there is that the Brasilia didn't do particularly well with the altitude in Denver. I am sure United would love to have OO operating for them otherwise.

Yep. AFAIK all of OO's Brasilias have been withdrawn from DEN.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
The CR2ER can do a standard day take off at MTOW from 5800'

A "standard day" takeoff and a takeoff at 6348' elevation on a 90 degree summer day are such drastically different things it's worse than comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruits and have at least that much in common.

You're talking a density altitude that will try to reach for 10,000 feet on the hottest of days at SAF. For instance right now (3:26p MDT on Friday the 29th) they're at 9200' DA. Your figures for the CRJ are SL and ISA. That means the density altitude is ZERO. Airplane performance changes drastically between a 0' DA and 9200' DA.

The CR2 is well known as a runway hog, and that 5800' number is irrelevant to any airport with elevation. Look around here and you'll see a plethora of comments about CRJ's in the Rocky Mountain region being penalized, and those are at airports alot lower than SAF. Someone with intimate knowledge of the CRJ can tell us more, but I'm willing to bet good money that a CRJ is NOT going to be penalty-free out of SAF in the summer, and even the "hot rod" ERJ-145XR has to be cutting it close. I'll be interested to see what the guys from ExpressJet have to say about theirs too once it is up and running.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

In addition to the LAX schedule, there will be 2 SLC departures, one each for OO & XJet/ CRJ & ERJ

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):

A "standard day" takeoff and a takeoff at 6348' elevation on a 90 degree summer day are such drastically different things it's worse than comparing apples and oranges.

I realize they are two different things and that the CR2 is a runway hog, but LAX-SAF is only 617nm. The aircraft needs nowhere near a full fuel load to make that flight, which significantly mitigates restrictions of economic impact.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

There will also be an ATL flight.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
Already loaded into DL's desktop schedule:

SAF-LAX DL7708 dep SAF 8AM arr LAX 9AM
LAX-SAF DL7707 dep LAX 6PM arr SAF 9PM
1X Daily Starting Oct 5

Bad timings..this market will be LAX POS..should be like LAX 0900 SAF 1200
SAF 1230 LAX 1330

I can see the potential for service to/from DFW, DEN, SLC,PHX, LAX


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Youre kidding...I think DL might be overdoing it...SAF is like so many other cities located close to a large successful WN station. It wil lbe tough to get people to change their habits and fly from SAF versus driving from/to ABQ


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Does a CRJ-200 have the range? I don't know if Delta would be able to fill a CRJ-700 on the route. Delta seasonally flies 757s on ABQ-ATL, but I don't know if passengers would really be willing to fly to Santa Fe from Atlanta.

SLC is quite a possibility, and so is PHX. Maybe CO could make an SAF-IAH route work.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 16):
Bad timings..this market will be LAX POS..should be like LAX 0900 SAF 1200
SAF 1230 LAX 1330

Not if the XR goes to ATL in between



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

I think that AA Eagle doing 2x daily ERJs DFW-SAF would be quite successful, especially with the ski traffic during the winter.

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

I would definitely fly ATL-SAF, always wanted to go there.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not happening at least not until SAF has a chance to prove what traffic it can build.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):

Does a CRJ-200 have the range? I don't know if Delta would be able to fill a CRJ-700 on the route. Delta seasonally flies 757s on ABQ-ATL, but I don't know if passengers would really be willing to fly to Santa Fe from Atlanta.

If DL can be successful to any station from any station, it is ATL because of the sheer hub presence there. Still, I would doubt the CR2's range on that route, as it is more than 400nm longer than out of LAX.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
It wil lbe tough to get people to change their habits and fly from SAF versus driving from/to ABQ

Not only that, but the Railrunner has a station near ABQ, which will make things all the easier



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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