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Qantas To Order 70 planes including 20x787+NB Plus Fleet Spin Off  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17456 times:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,21984926-23349,00.html

QANTAS is eyeing to set up a fleet management company to supply aircrafts to QANTAS Group, including QANTAS, QANTASLINK, jetStar, jetStar Asia, and Pacific Airlines of Vietnam.

This comes the eve of a decision of an order up to 70 new aircrafts - 20 more 787s and 50 NEW narrow-body planes.

QANTAS is to receive 1st of 20 A380 it has on order in 2008. The first of 45 787 on orders will also arrive from August 2008 at the rate of 1 per month.

[Edited 2007-06-28 23:59:31]

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17434 times:

787 orders before delivery here we come!!  yes 


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30524 posts, RR: 84
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17179 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I know QF operates 737NGS at the moment, are they operating A320 family planes?

I expect this order will go 737, anyway, due to availability.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17064 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
This comes the eve of a decision of an order up to 70 new aircrafts - 20 more 787s and 50 NEW narrow-body planes

FYI

The title of the thread said 70 787!

-JD


User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16961 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
are they operating A320 family planes?

Not QF but their subsidiary JQ yes.

Jetstar fleet

Qantas fleet


User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16922 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 3):
FYI

The title of the thread said 70 787!

The title is obviously mistaken. The article states 20 B787 + 50 NB

Could this be the B7810ER launch order ??

aminobwana


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16901 times:

Title is not mistaken when you have limit to words.

70 787 and NB (Narrowbodies)

It's like saying QANTAS order 70 787+320. Something wrong with it?

[Edited 2007-06-29 01:04:59]

User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4851 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16550 times:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 5):
Could this be the B7810ER launch order ??

More likely a 787-8 HGW as discussed on this site some months ago. Without going back and checking, something like a 787-9 MTOW ( 542000 lb +-) in the size of the 787-8. Rumor was at the time that CFO Gregg had gone to Seattle to make a pitch for the variant.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16507 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
This comes the eve of a decision of an order up to 70 new aircrafts - 20 more 787s and 50 NEW narrow-body planes.

It was rumoured that Jetstar would place a huge order in Paris. That didn't happen. Perhaps these 50 narrowbodies are for Jetstar.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30524 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16453 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
It was rumoured that Jetstar would place a huge order in Paris. That didn't happen. Perhaps these 50 narrowbodies are for Jetstar.

Well July 8th would be a fine time to announce them if they're 737NGs, along with the 20 additional 787s, which I assume will be option conversions?


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16326 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
It was rumoured that Jetstar would place a huge order in Paris. That didn't happen. Perhaps these 50 narrowbodies are for Jetstar

Yeah, I heard the same, and put it in the predictions thread !!!



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16201 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
It was rumoured that Jetstar would place a huge order in Paris. That didn't happen. Perhaps these 50 narrowbodies are for Jetstar.

Maybe they will be for 737-900ER. What are your guesses for the narrowbody model?



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16144 times:

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 11):
What are your guesses for the narrowbody model?

If they are for Jetstar, then it's the A320. If they are for QF it will be 737s.



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User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16126 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):

If they are for Jetstar, then it's the A320.

I would refine that by saying 320 series (i.e. not rule out 319/321).....



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 883 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16116 times:

I will go for 30 A320/321's for Jetstar and 20 739's for QF.

For the extra 787's, they will be split between QF and JQ.

If QF do go for 787-8's they will most likely be their first ones and would be a HGW variant. I believe that all other 787-8's that are already on order will be for JQ and that QF will only be getting 787-9's in the initial order. Have also heard that JQ will be getting 15 aircraft instead of the original 12.

RL


User currently offlineQFYMML From Australia, joined Jun 2007, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16077 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Well July 8th would be a fine time to announce them if they're 737NGs, along with the 20 additional 787s, which I assume will be option conversions?

I will bet my left one that A320's will get given the nod for the narrow body order.
Qantas mainline is slowly farming off routes to JQ who operate the A320. JetStar Asia operates A320's also & I would assume any new aircraft for the Vietnam offshoot would be from the same family.
I can't see any additional 737's being required in these numbers for mainline alone, and don't see the other group members operating a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a few 738's to replace the last of the 734's....a few for Jetconnect??
Another possibility I guess, would be Embraers for Qantaslink?

I'd go for options conversions on the 787's too. No 787-10 launch, and a mix of 787-8's & -9's.

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
It was rumoured that Jetstar would place a huge order in Paris. That didn't happen. Perhaps these 50 narrowbodies are for Jetstar.

I never heard that one at all - I wasn't expecting any QF Group orders at Paris. What was the rumoured order?

Cheers All (long time lurker, first time poster)



A300,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/5/6,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8,74SP/2/3/4,752,762/3/4,77E/3/W,L1011,DC9,DC10,S340,DHC6/8,ATR72
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5158 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16003 times:

Quoting QFYMML (Reply 15):
Perhaps a few 738's to replace the last of the 734's....a few for Jetconnect??

There are about 20 odd 734's on the fleet still, so I would expect them to be repalced as part of this upcoming order.


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15979 times:

Considering Qantas just announced Jetstar was going to start operating on the SYD-BNE route in anticipation of the arrival of Tiger, I also am betting the single aisle order will be for 320's. Maybe a few 737's for QF, but it sounds as if they are going to turn more and more domestic routes over to Jetstar. Could we possibly see a return to the days when QF was strictly an international carrier w/Jetstar as it's domestic division and LCC international operator?

User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15979 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 13):
I would refine that by saying 320 series (i.e. not rule out 319/321).....

A321s would be nice.

Quoting QFYMML (Reply 15):
I wasn't expecting any QF Group orders at Paris. What was the rumoured order?

A320s and possibly some A330s. I guess they've waited to long to get their hands on early delivery positions for A330s now.



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User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8182 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15936 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 17):
Could we possibly see a return to the days when QF was strictly an international carrier w/Jetstar as it's domestic division and LCC international operator?

That will be a problem for the corporate market where QF has contracts with a lot of major companies - and these pax are flying up front. If QF moves domestic to a LCC base then these major customers are going to be calling for significantly more discounts.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15847 times:

It would be interesting if Boeing were to launch a 787-8ER before the 787-10. Perhaps both will be launched at the roll out.

A 787-8ER could be made without developing any new parts just by combining parts from the 787-8 and 787-9. However, for such a 787-8ER to be useful to QF for SYD/MEL-LHR, about 25,000 lbs of additional fuel capacity would be required.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15847 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 17):
Could we possibly see a return to the days when QF was strictly an international carrier w/Jetstar as it's domestic division and LCC international operator?

Nup not all routes, too much money made on some routes. Alot of mining companys also have several year contracts with Qantas and Qantas only. They would take alot of trouble to have to change them to JQ.

I dont think we will ever see QF totally dissolve its domestic routes.

As it says in the Article: Qantas will focus on premium routes and JQ on Lesiure routes.

[Edited 2007-06-29 03:34:02]


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineJbernie From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 15728 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 17):
Could we possibly see a return to the days when QF was strictly an international carrier w/Jetstar as it's domestic division and LCC international operator?

That will be a problem for the corporate market where QF has contracts with a lot of major companies - and these pax are flying up front. If QF moves domestic to a LCC base then these major customers are going to be calling for significantly more discounts.

I would expect that any flight on any route that has a heavy volume of business flyers (aka those nice FFs) will be QF, but some of the flights during the day that are more leasure travellers can be pushed over to JQ. ie SYD-MEL early morning & evening will be QF, and the flights during the day will be split between the two. Certainly it will be interesting to see how they balance the two on these types of routes.

I was checking some domestic flights for my visit in September, the unrestricted fares for QF were pretty much to the point where you could possibly make at least 2 flight reservations (to cover possible dept times) on JQ in each direction and it would still cost less than an unresticted QF flight. No idea on the rules for tickets not used and all. But if you aren't into the FF points with QF there are possibly some interesting options.

As to the breakdown of the order, narrow body break down will depend on which company gets the planes, though QF does appear to have some older 737 that could be replaced. The split on the 787s again depends on who, though as noted already, i was also under the impression that JQ was getitng the -8s and QF the -9s, and of course there is that whole Extended Super Long Range blah blah version that QF dreams of getting. Too many possibilities to speculate.

As to the Fleet Management company, not quite sure on that one. would this be a way to get the QF balance sheet improved by it not being weighed down with actual ownership of aircraft? I don't know if they would be wanting to compete against the other Leasee's in providing aircraft to non QF/JQ related airlines. So I can only think of it being a way to improve the balance sheet.

Has anyone seen any numbers floating around about if QF didn't "own" the aircraft whether the share price or market cap would increase by some significant amount?


User currently offlineQFYMML From Australia, joined Jun 2007, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 15650 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 16):
There are about 20 odd 734's on the fleet still, so I would expect them to be repalced as part of this upcoming order.

I know a QF FA who would love for this to be the case - one 734 in particular  Smile
Do you know if they have been/are being replaced 1:1 by the 738's?
Curious to know if every 734 that leaves the mainline fleet is replaced by a 738, or, if they flew routes now operated by JQ and replacement a/c wasn't required (for mainline).



A300,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/5/6,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8,74SP/2/3/4,752,762/3/4,77E/3/W,L1011,DC9,DC10,S340,DHC6/8,ATR72
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12932 times:

What I find interesting about all this is the joint venture spin off. I am sure National Jet Systems and Eastern Airlines are wondering how this will impact them, being contracted to run services on behalf of Qantaslink.


It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
25 ANstar : From what I understood, it was only aircraft that would be supplied. Not crews.
26 Post contains images EK413 : BHP comes to mind... Just to mention one of them...That alone is a biggy EK413
27 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : mmhhmm very big contract along with Rio Tinto and Woodside Gas, one of my best friends has just got a job in the Contract office at Wooside, so i can
28 Post contains images Aminobwana : Which would be the range with full passenger load of such 788ER or 788HGW ?? Another question: Comparing the operating costs (ballpark!) per seat at
29 Post contains images Maersk737 : Yes it can Cheers Peter
30 SunriseValley : If it is to work for QF it needs an ESAD of 10000nm. It has never been clear what percentage of max. payload QF consider necessary. I can't believe t
31 CygnusChicago : Talk about a loaded question!
32 Columba : Why should the A380 not be "state of the art" ? Because it is not fully composite ? I doubt that either Boeing or Airbus could build an aircraft that
33 Aminobwana : You are taking my remark out of context. You may be right that a plane of the size of the A380 presently cannot be made of 50% composite. But when I
34 Aminobwana : Thanks. In other words, aircrafts which can fly from Sydney to the UK (nominal 9,200nm) or to NY (nominal 8,600nm) non stop with 230-270 passengers,
35 Zvezda : A 787-8ER with the MTOW of the 787-9 and an additional 25,000lbs fuel capacity would have a range of 10500nm. The 787-8 and 787-9 will have higher CA
36 MD-90 : It's a little early to say that, but I think one could make a case for the 787 and A350XWB being state of the art while the A380 is not. Talk about b
37 Stitch : Talk about bad news for the A380. You think that is bad, wait until the A350-900 and (especially) A350-1000 take to the skies...
38 Zvezda : Indeed. The only time a larger aircraft with higher CASM can compete against a smaller aircraft with lower CASM is when the former has substantially
39 Post contains images Lightsaber : The engines are not state of the art. The GP7200 lacks contra rotation. That alone is leaving 3% fuel burn at the gate. The Trent 900 is a good desig
40 CygnusChicago : By that same reasoning, the 787 won't be state of the art in 2010. What a ridiculous argument! I'm sceptical of this. I still don't think the A350 wi
41 Zvezda : I expect the A350 to sell at a rate of around 200 per year for the foreseeable future. If I'm anywhere close to correct, we won't need to wait twenty
42 Aminobwana : So, it could fly with full passenger load (?) from Sydney to London, or Glasgow., as well as to LAX, Chicago, Toronto, I assume that the CASM of the
43 Post contains images Aminobwana : In layman language: the B787 is "more" state of the art, and that's the reason that a smaller aircraft with higher frequency can compete with a large
44 Aminobwana : Zvezda, I am quite disagreeing. Realistically, I am assuming that when the A350 enters in service, IMO not before 2015, a more new Boeing will be (or
45 Zvezda : A 787-8ER could fly from anywhere to anywhere. Yes, the CASM would be considerably higher. The 25,000 lbs of fuel must not only be carried, but burne
46 Atmx2000 : Basically almost all of the current 787 orders can be delivered before the A350 starts shipping. Airlines don't have the ability to plan that much fu
47 Aminobwana : You are right. I expressed myself badly. I am comparing the case of an airline which have the choice TODAY to buy E380s or A787s, needing them in 201
48 Zvezda : a), b), c) and e) make sense to me. d) I don't understand because the all 787 models are equally suited to 8Y and 9Y configurations. f) doesn't make
49 TruemanQLD : Probably, as they already operate a mainly Boeing fleet (A330's excluded) Doubt it very much More like 20 of them. These are the main Australian mark
50 Post contains images CygnusChicago : I don't think anyone is planning to use A388's to fly from LHR to, say, AMS Prisoner's dilemma is what makes the oft cited increase in RASM pretty mu
51 VHVXB : QF have already said no to the E-jets
52 Zvezda : Most carriers aren't planning to fly the WhaleJet at all. That's only true if the competitor is flooding the market while roughly matching on frequen
53 Post contains images CygnusChicago : No, you said the A388 is already not state of the art, because the 787 is already in design. By 2010, the A350 will be in design and be more "modern"
54 Zvezda : The A350 will be in some ways more and in some ways less modern than the 787. The number of airports worldwide at which slots are not available is in
55 Post contains images Jacobin777 : While I agree with you that most A.netters here view "WhaleJet" as disparaging, I fail to see why.. ..I don't think there is anything wrong or bad wi
56 CygnusChicago : And most carriers aren't planning to fly the 777 either. And in other news, the earth rotated today... Frequencies can only come into play if: 1) the
57 Melpax : Add to that most Government departments & large corporates also have contracts with Qantas. I suspect most corporate types would rather fly on DJ rat
58 Zvezda : My point exactly. 1) nearly always true. 2) slightly staggered flights still raise RASM for a variety of reasons including corporate rules against te
59 Gemuser : NOT TRUE! JQ currently operate SYD-MEL-SYD. True they are international tags/positioning flights, but they are bookable. More importantly the SYD-BNE
60 Post contains images Astuteman : When I plug a 245t 788 with 220 pax into my home-grown drag calculation model, I struggle to get it past 9 900 Nm. Such a plane would probably benefi
61 Zvezda : Good of you to admit that the allegations of disparagement are groundless guilt-by-association. If you're right, history will be poorer for it.
62 Astuteman : I did? Or is this you re-writing history?.......... History will judge that, of course (unless it gets re-written....) Regards
63 Zvezda : I quoted you, so as to make clear exactly what you wrote. If I didn't understand you correctly, than what did you mean? That guilt-by-association is
64 ClassicLover : That's completely mad. They currently have 5 x 738 pending delivery. You won't see the A320 in QF colours, period. Qantas have stated that they looke
65 Aminobwana : Now that we have seen the advantages which a low development cost B788ER would have from the point of view of an airline geographicallyplaced as Aust
66 Gbfra : When EADS/Airbus revisited the A380's business plan last year they came to a different conclusion.
67 Zvezda : And did Airbus predict that they would sell only 160 in seven years?
68 Gbfra : Long-term predictions are a never-never land. So are yours and so are theirs. All I can say is they had a very thorough look at the program last year
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...and don't you think made the exact same statements back in 1999/2000? ...and what about the first 5 iterations of the A350? Didn't they talk to ex
70 Zeke : Source or is this just your wild speculation ? Source or is this just your wild speculation ? Source or is this just your wild speculation ? Source o
71 Atmx2000 : But 8Y and 9Y configurations appeal to different airlines. The assuming equal pitch, the more comfortable, lower capacity 8Y configuration would appe
72 Astuteman : The A350XWB will broadly share all of the "game-changing" economic characteristics of the 787, as far as they are relevant to stimulating demand for
73 Zvezda : I'm not sure it's clear how much of the 787's lower MX costs will be shared by the A350. Certainly not all. However, advances in aerodynamics and pro
74 Astuteman : I was careful to use the word "broadly" as there are obvious differences in the two products. The similarity is in the overall step change in economi
75 Baroque : I was going to ask when La supposed that RR might introduce these goodies, but the Astute comments suggest perhaps never could be the answer. Which l
76 Atmx2000 : The 787 brings C market range to segments of the market that have only had A and low B market ranges. That is main game changing characteristic of th
77 N328KF : Yes, but you know as well as I that any advances due to the powerplant could be matched by the 787 at some point in time, particularly since the 787
78 Zvezda : Right, but the A350 will have a huge CASM advantage over older aircraft like the 777-300ER. The Trent XWB would have to be converted to bleedless, ad
79 Jacobin777 : ..the problem I see is even with the better CASM the A35X holds over the B77W, I don't believe it will sell in very large numbers. I think we might h
80 Post contains images Lightsaber : Me too. I crack my knuckles to warm up... HECK YES! Airframe: Optimization of the carbon fiber to save wait. Gain: 2% to 3% improvement in fuel burn.
81 Post contains images Baroque : Knuckle lotion on its way! That looks like a fair wish list. Out of that, what of things that are "ready to roll" could be done but might not be done
82 Atmx2000 : That may not be enough to push airlines which own such aircraft to replace them as the aircraft are at least partially paid off. Especially if the re
83 Zvezda : The problem with that is that the development cost of both versions would have to be paid for. I'm sure that will be true in some cases. I don't expe
84 Lightsaber : Once upon a time I dismissed nacelles... but after the PW4172 debacle... I learned to respect the time/effort/costs of nacelle development. While a s
85 AeroplaneFreak : Qantas now the biggest airline customer for the 787. With the orders for the 20 787-9s.
86 777ER : Jetconnects remaining B733s will be replaced by B734s.
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