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British Airways Won Rights To Operate EU-US  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month ago) and read 6823 times:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResu...umberValue=28149&searchType=docket

A decision has just made on 29JUN07. See 2007-28149-6 (Order)

British Airways has received permission conditionally to operate service between any points in the European Union and the US under the new open skies deal, effective 30MAR08.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month ago) and read 6764 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
British Airways has received permission conditionally to operate service between any points in the European Union and the US under the new open skies deal, effective 30MAR08.

and ??? all other airlines will get the same rights.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3428 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):

and ??? all other airlines will get the same rights.

Exactly. Nothing new here.


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
and ??? all other airlines will get the same rights.

First European carrier applied and get go ahead for this since the 1970s.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Watched an interview on Bloomberg with Walsh..he stated they will begin transatlantic B767 and B757 flights from various European cities once they get the "green light"


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Watched an interview on Bloomberg with Walsh..he stated they will begin transatlantic B767 and B757 flights from various European cities once they get the "green light"

I listened to that interview on Bloomberg radio, he specifically mentioned Frankfurt, Milan and Paris.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
I listened to that interview on Bloomberg radio, he specifically mentioned Frankfurt, Milan and Paris.

will be intresting to see how many good slots they will get in frankfurt....



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 6):
will be intresting to see how many good slots they will get in frankfurt....

They have enough of own there. They have 11 flights a day to FRA from both LCY and LHR and they can get some slots from FlyBE as well. So i don't think there would be any problem there.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Watched an interview on Bloomberg with Walsh..he stated they will begin transatlantic B767 and B757 flights from various European cities once they get the "green light"

I listened to that interview on Bloomberg radio, he specifically mentioned Frankfurt, Milan and Paris.

..cool, I couldn't recall if he had stated any cities out of Europe....

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 7):
Quoting Avianca (Reply 6):
will be intresting to see how many good slots they will get in frankfurt....

They have enough of own there. They have 11 flights a day to FRA from both LCY and LHR and they can get some slots from FlyBE as well. So i don't think there would be any problem there.

 checkmark 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

just like BA announcing DFW-LHR and IAH-LHR, this is much ado about nothing. bored 

Though with the talks of FRA, MXP, and CDG, does this mean that BA's CEO is talking about 757/767 flights to US destinations from those cities? Sorry for sounding a little ignorant regarding that, but it seems a bit confusing to me. Then again it is 3:30 am as I'm typing this.  tired 


User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5952 times:

They could send one or two of their 767s to BEG  bigthumbsup 


R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3428 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

I wonder how they want to compete against LH and AF with once daily 757/767 flights, especially in the premium classes.

User currently offlineA350XWB From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Any idea which destinations they will serve out of FRA? NYC? ORD?

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 9):
Though with the talks of FRA, MXP, and CDG, does this mean that BA's CEO is talking about 757/767 flights to US destinations from those cities?

BA have previously said that their application is to serve US cities from continental European cities with 752s and 763s configured for premium class passengers only. So effectively the proposed services will offer the second generation BA lie flat Club World seat to many more routes.

Whether or not these services will be 'much ado about nothing' I leave it to you, AF, LH and AZ as well as the US legacy airlines and the likes of MaxJet and Silverjet to decide.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 10):
They could send one or two of their 767s to BEG bigthumbsup

If only BEG was in an EU member state....


User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Eh? "Won"...? That's a bit over-dramatic, isn't it?! This is clearly just a formality, and don't be surprised to see several other key Europen carriers do the same, if they haven't done already. Actually starting any such service will be newsworthy, merely being granted the rights to do so in the new 'open skies' era is hardly deserving of such drum-beating.

I look forward to the actuality, but in the mentime will hold back my excitement for more deserving 'news'...



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
British Airways has received permission conditionally to operate service between any points in the European Union and the US under the new open skies deal, effective 30MAR08.

There have been numerous discussions about this topic already over the past few weeks. This action was a given as it is part of the new EU-US Open Skies Agreement. It has been discussed at length, the information posted was nothing more than a formality.

-JD


User currently offlineBAOPS777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5293 times:

Quoting A350XWB (Reply 12):
Any idea which destinations they will serve out of FRA? NYC? ORD?

BA are looking at using JFK as a hub. The plan is to operate to FRA/CDG/MIL/MAD

They have also said they would like to operate from the UK. This will probably be done not from LHR but from a secondry airport such as LGW/LTN or STN

They will use there dedicated terminal. T7 at JFK. The product they are looking at is either all J or more likely Mostly J with rear cabin being configured with W class.

There plan is to lobby the DOT to open the skies in the US as is happening in Europe. Then BA will start domestic services from JFK with US based crews

Interesting times this can only be good news for business passengers who will have more choice


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting BAOPS777 (Reply 17):
Interesting times this can only be good news for business passengers who will have more choice

Yeah great for them, but sucks for all the American carriers that are just starting to get their heads above the water by adding cash cow international flights. Will be interesting to see what happens.


User currently offlineBAOPS777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 18):
Yeah great for them, but sucks for all the American carriers that are just starting to get their heads above the water by adding cash cow international flights. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Well finnlly it might weed out some of these carriers that need to modernise in Europe airlines can not hide behind chapter 11 protection. Once a airline goes bankrupt its bye bye

BA, VS, EI, LH are all airlines who made difficult cost cuts to conserve there business.

Maybe they should have seen that the business is in international sectors along time before now.


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Quoting BAOPS777 (Reply 19):
Well finnlly it might weed out some of these carriers that need to modernise in Europe airlines can not hide behind chapter 11 protection. Once a airline goes bankrupt its bye bye

Uh...if that was the case then we'd be left with AA and CO in the US....that would be just dandy....

I understand your point though. At least now other airlines can fly into LHR, that will give BA a run for their money....they were hiding behind that for decades, now they will have to put up a fight! lol


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 13):
752s and 763s configured for premium class passengers only. So effectively the proposed services will offer the second generation BA lie flat Club World seat to many more routes.

How many of these seats fit into a 752/763? These are the forwards/backwards facing seats, aren't they?

Anyway.... The 763 seems logical, but weren't the 757 going to be exclusive for MAD, BCN, LIS, HEL and NCE out of T3@LHR to simplify operations? I don't know how many 757 they have and how many they do need for these 5 destinations but i don't think BA expected 757 tatl service from continental Europe when they planned the operation at T3.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

Quoting BAOPS777 (Reply 17):
BA are looking at using JFK as a hub. The plan is to operate to FRA/CDG/MIL/MAD

Unlike with most (all?) European airports my understanding - please correct me if I am wrong - is that in the US gates can be as much a specific issue as slots are at some EU airports. My understanding is that T7 at JFK, although built and owned by the New York Port Authority, is leased by BA. However T7 is also used by other airlines. These include BA's OneWorld Alliance partners CX, IB and QF but also AC, FI, NH, UA and US.

Do these other airlines lease or rent their gates in T7 from the NYPA or from BA? If from BA are the gates on long term or short term lease or simply rented? In other words is gate availability at JFK to BA a restriction that BA will need to find a way to overcome if it wants to start operating JFK-CDG/FRA/MXP juat as DL would have to find a way of addressing slot availability at LHR to operate JFK-LHR, or does BA control the gates in T7 at JFK to the extent that it can easily address any gate issue.

A question directed at BAOPS777: Is it that BA are known to be looking to operate a JFK-MAD service (presumably in cooperation with OneWorld partner IB) or is this your own assessment?

Finally this would establish a US hub of BA operated aircraft requiring servicing. Logically routine servicing could be effected by ferrying or substituting the aircraft on a CDG/FRA/MXP-LHR service. (BA used to ferry the 763s used on the MAN-JFK service to LHR for servicing. However for the last 18 months it has substitutes these aircraft on its LHR-MAN-LHR shuttle service to reposition them.) But what about non-routine servicing? What does BA's partner, AA do when either one of their 752s or 763s requires engineering attention at JFK? Do they have their own engineering facility there? If so could it even carry out routine servicing on BA aircraft?


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 20):
Uh...if that was the case then we'd be left with AA and CO in the US....that would be just dandy....

Continental Airlines has been bankrupt twice, and ceased operations once..

-JD


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 23):
Continental Airlines has been bankrupt twice, and ceased operations once..

Yes I realize that...I was talking about since 9/11...sorry I should have clarifyed.


25 Aisak : Even if they don't get 8th freedom rights (which i think they'll never get) i guess they can start domestic operations with international passengers.
26 JFK787NYC :
27 VV701 : Do you think so? I would have thought that if you could start after 9/11 all over again and there was no Chapter 11 protection that: 1. None of the a
28 Flyboyaz : It's hard to say I guess. Now I'm not that clear on the new plan, but does it also include that foreign carriers are allowed to fly domestic routes i
29 BAOPS777 : Part of the open skies agreement is the opening of US skies to european airlines. Infact it is one of the stipulated points. If the US refuse europea
30 COEI2007 : I think BA's Club World and First offerings can more than compete with LH or AF on JFK's flights. I think the American carriers will be fine. CO/DL e
31 BCAL : BA has had a fight for ages and has stayed ahead of the competition. There are many other airlines currently flying to/from LHR - as their home hub B
32 Post contains images Flyboyaz : Yeah I know, but all those airports are not as restricted as LHR is. BA is lucky to have as much of a market there as they do...but they are the flag
33 Humberside : Wouldnt LGW make most sense considering there is already a BA presense at the airport? Also, do BA plan on any branding for this new operation, to di
34 BAOPS777 : This is from someone on the development team. They have a shortlist of 20 destanations of which they will probably only use 8 to 10. BA has alot of c
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