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Interesting Ferry Run.  
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N830SA

Well over 12 hours spent out over the Pacific in a Navajo. Looks like a pulse-raising experience, especially as it seems the flight is taking longer than originally planned for. Anyone with any inside scoop as to how much fuel was stuffed into ferry tanks and whatnot?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePr1268 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

The Navajo landed 2 hrs ago (as of 5:00 AM UTC July 1). 12 hours and 7 minutes in the air. This does seem like an interesting flight, considering its route and length.


The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
User currently offlineJetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

I think i would rather not choose a navaho to cross the pacific. Especially with enough fuel in the ferry tanks im surprised
it would have gotten off the ground for a 12 hr flight. I would think the pilot would have had some hesitation. How did they do it back in the old days put them on ships or what..



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4974 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

If you can make it SFO/OAK-HNL then you can hop anywhere else across the Pacific just by island hopping.
I imagine those pilots will have the sound of those engines in their ears for days to come! That is a long flight!



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineNrcnyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

so do they pee in a cup?

seriously, that must be one heck of a flight. What happens if one engine fails? or both? man i cant imagine what it would be like to bob up and down in the pacific untill the coast guard finds you.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6922 times:

There is a Saab 340 Ferrying from the US to Australia today as well.

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
What happens if one engine fails? or both?

You get wet.......

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
i cant imagine what it would be like to bob up and down in the pacific until the coast guard finds you.

Coast Guard...? What Coast Guard...??

[Edited 2007-07-01 15:00:25]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2774 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6873 times:

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
i cant imagine what it would be like to bob up and down in the pacific untill the coast guard finds you.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
Coast Guard...? What Coast Guard...??

Yeah, out there you would drown or you would wind up on a deserted island like Tom Hanks did on "Cast Away".  Wink

I couldn't sit in something that small for that long over nothing but water.

-Matt



No info
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2016 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
What happens if one engine fails? or both?



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
Yeah, out there you would drown or you would wind up on a deserted island like Tom Hanks did on "Cast Away".

...and hope to have a volley ball with you  wink 

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-OOL-SYD | JQ SYD-MEL | VA MEL-CBR-SYD | DL SYD-LAX-ATL-MIA | B6 FLL-DCA-BOS | DL BOS-L
User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6378 times:

good luck after a few hours in really salty ans relatively cool water with the sharks as when your skin starts to tear from the water logging you will become lunch meat.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 3):
If you can make it SFO/OAK-HNL then you can hop anywhere else across the Pacific just by island hopping.

Amen.

Actually if you can go West Coast to Hawaii, you can go just about anywhere in the world.

My preferred jumping off point is MRY - it's the shortest by a mile or two, and the FBOs there are more Hawaii bound aware for GA pilots.

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
so do they pee in a cup?

In a bottle actually - see:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=297

Quoting N710PS (Reply 8):
good luck after a few hours in really salty ans relatively cool water with the sharks as when your skin starts to tear from the water logging you will become lunch meat.

Gee, thanks for that thought - I'll have a few thoughts for you next time I hit ETP  Wink



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N373AE

Here ya go......



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5985 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
What happens if one engine fails? or both?

If you're lucky, you land on an island inhabited by the Swedish bikini team, or perhaps the Hawaiian Tropic girls.....


User currently offline6YJJK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
so do they pee in a cup?

Or pay for some of these...
http://transair.co.uk/product4.asp?SID=2&Product_ID=1005

Or I suppose you could rig up the sort of pee-tube some gliders have - essentially a funnel with a hose leading to the outside, with suction increasing with airspeed. But I would be very nervous about putting my bits anywhere near one of those...


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 10):
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N373AE

Here ya go......

On the scale of balls... I give more credit to the Navajo. Turbines are a bit more reliable than Pistons. Either way, they've both got more than I ever would... you'd never catch me flying in something like that from the mainland to a Pacific island.

This is the new ETOPS 240 qualified Saab 340, right?  Silly


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
Either way, they've both got more than I ever would... you'd never catch me flying in something like that from the mainland to a Pacific island.

It's a long term contract and I have been invited to do a flight..... which I might just do. But trust me, I'm getting a Business Class seat on Qantas for the trip home...!!



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePapaNovember From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Why was their altitude (the Navajo) only 6,000 ft. Wouldn't you want to be much, much higher!?

User currently offlinePr1268 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 4):
so do they pee in a cup?

Charles A. Lindbergh carried an empty coffee can with him on his famous New York-Paris flight.

Quoting C680 (Reply 9):
My preferred jumping off point is MRY - it's the shortest by a mile or two, and the FBOs there are more Hawaii bound aware for GA pilots.

Being totally silly here, pilots can take advantage of MRY's downhill runway 28L, after all the west end of the runway is over 100ft (31m) LOWER than the east end (according to the FAA's PDF http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/00271AD.PDF).  silly 



The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
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Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 15):
Why was their altitude (the Navajo) only 6,000 ft. Wouldn't you want to be much, much higher!?

If it is pressurized, it can. But if it is not then they would have to be at a lower altitude. Any flying around 8,000 to 10,000 feet you need supplemental oxygen to survive at that altitude and you have to make certain that the engine will be able to operate at that altitude. If you check the Saab's flightplan (in the 10th post through the link), they are going to 22,000 feet. The airplane is pressurized and that may be the highest operating ceiling for the turboprop.

[Edited 2007-07-01 20:41:38]


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Quoting CcrlR (Reply 17):
Any flying around 8,000 to 10,000 feet you need supplemental oxygen to survive

I used to file 10,500 or 11,500 when I did my solo cross countries in a C-172. Granted they were never more than a couple hours at that altitude. But the point is, someone who is used to it can survive there no problem. You're not exactly exerting yourself in such a way that you need all that extra oxygen you'd find at 6,000 feet. And of course we all know what the FAR's say about supplemental O2 in a non-pressurized aircraft: Any flight in excess of 12,500 feet for more than 30 minutes requires the pilots to be on supplemental oxygen. So back to the Navajo, it would have probably been more economical for them to file 10,000 or something around there. Not to mention it gives you extra time should something go wrong.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2092 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

There's an interesting book on Amazon titled "so you want to be a ferry pilot."

It's a very good read. Needless to say, 12 hours over the pacific wouldn't be my idea of fun--in anything. Let alone a Piper or Cessna or SF-340.


User currently offlineFlinhion757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

A Citation CJ3 can't evern do it... I would rather fly something else anyway!


319,320,332,732,733,735,737,738,744,752,CR7,CR9,E135,E140,E145,E175,MD82
User currently offlineCaptainJon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

I never heard of the term ferry flight used before...what is it exactly?

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 21):
I never heard of the term ferry flight used before...what is it exactly?

Moving the aircraft without passengers for a means other then revenue........I've done several and they can be a lot of fun. Very casual

[Edited 2007-07-02 00:52:37]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

I read a book about a ferry flight to Hawaii in an Otter. It lasted around 24 hours. There was an airline pilot talking to him on the radio on his way to Honolulu, and on his way back the next day the Otter was still going. There was also only one pilot in the Otter.


As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4974 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

About a year ago, I saw two Qantas Dash 8's come thru HOU on their way to Oz. Now that's going to be a long flight!


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
25 Post contains images Jpax : You would be screwed either way...although the extra height does give a few more minutes of trouble shooting time.
26 Tornado82 : You're braver than me too then! I don't even like flying over lakes in a GA bird, let alone the Pacific.
27 CaptainJon : Thanks! It does sound like they can be fun...More or less, it's the aviation equivalent of a road trip?
28 Post contains images C680 : Hmmmmm....... Yeah, give me the back end of the bus any day over *that*
29 Post contains images Tornado82 : If I had access to that I wouldn't be complaining. Although regardless I'm never a fan of flight when I can't see ground... that's just a a psycholog
30 Post contains images C680 : Rodger that. It didn't work out too well for JFK Jr either....
31 N710PS : At one point as a result of the fact my dad owns a fairly large freight forwarder and aircraft shipping company and I had an offer on the table to fer
32 Post contains images Skibum9 : That's not true. The FARs state anything over 12,500 more than 30 minutes requires oxygen. I regularly haul around at 10,000 on long cross countries
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