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World Standards For Seat Pitch/Width/Recline?  
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

I have been thinking about this for a long while. I have wondered if the World Health Organisation shouldn't be mandating minimum seat standards for airline seating, based on the range of various airliners.

This whole debate is a little misguied as the all so common dimension of seat pitch seems to be the focus of many people's thoughts. The problem with seat pitch is that the distance between you and the seat in front of you depends on how thick the seat back is. A 34" seat pitch is worse than a 30" pitch if the 34" pitch seat is 4.5" thicker.  hissyfit  What has happened in recent times is that seat backs have become thinner (well for airlines that have newer seats maybe)

Secondly, the issue of seat width comes into play which is further complicated by armrest dimensions/intrusions

Thirdly, there is the issue of seat recline. Sure some first class cabins have 180 degree recline, but how far does the seat you are going to be in for 22 hours recline? (And how far does the seat in front of you dent your face when the passenger pushes it back)

Fourthly, and this is a more recent problem I have encountered, is there any where to rest your feet with either a foot rest or clear foot space under the seat in front of you. Some of the underseat IFE boxes basically destroy any foot space that existed.

Try calling your airline and asking the above four questions.


Airbus denies standing room 'seats' but there has been enough talking about Economy Ticket's buying just a Place to Stand that I fear passsengers are going to squeezed further and further.

Sure I dont mind a tight squeeze from London to Paris or LAX to Las Vegas, but Brisbane to LAX is an entirely different thing.

If the World Health Organisation was to publish a recommended airline seat criteria, that was obvioulsy not a legal requirement, airlines would face serious litigation for not complying in actions brought against them for DVT and the like.

For Example, maybe the criteria could be put into categories  scratchchin 

Short Range Flights (Under 3 hours)

Long Range Flights (Over 3 hours)




The UK regulation sets the minimum distance of 26" between seats,. I am not sure what else is mandated in any other regulations - as far as I know nothing! Its amasing we have standards for airline safety, but no standards for preserving a passengers sanity, back posture, general health or comfort when it comes to seating! Just maybe the standing room tickets would be legal  stirthepot 


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1181 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6050 times:

If people were willing to pay more than rock bottom, basement fares then airlines wouldn't need to look for more ways to squeeze more people onto a plane to make money.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

Just what we need, a bunch of international bureaucrats with no idea about the airline industry creating arbitrary standards with no enforcement mechanism.  no 

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5955 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Just what we need, a bunch of international bureaucrats with no idea about the airline industry creating arbitrary standards with no enforcement mechanism.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Just what we need, a bunch of international bureaucrats with no idea about the airline industry creating arbitrary standards with no enforcement mechanism.

They do it now for things like emissions and noise!



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 4):
They do it now for things like emissions and noise!

The World Health Organization does? That is news to me!


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5811 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
The World Health Organization does? That is news to me!

Not the WHO, but other "international bureaucrats" as you said.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5791 times:

Let me ask another question?

Are you happy that airlines continue to quote seat pitch as the all important seat room factor? (as does places like seat guru etc) - baring in mind seat pitch means nothing without knowing the seat thickness

Would you rather not see a more realistic comparison such as, the distance between the back of the seat to the front of the seat cushion in the seat behind?

I reiterate Airline A's 34" seat pitch is worse than Airline B's 30" pitch if the 34" pitch seat is 4.5" thicker



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5788 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 7):
Are you happy that airlines continue to quote seat pitch as the all important seat room factor? (as does places like seat guru etc) - baring in mind seat pitch means nothing without knowing the seat thickness

Would you rather not see a more realistic comparison such as, the distance between the back of the seat to the front of the seat cushion in the seat behind?

One thing though is that in general, there really are only two types of seat thicknesses in economy. The traditional style with more padding (usually around what maybe 6" thick?) and the new slim line design (usually around 3" thick?). And for us aviation geeks who really care about that added seat pitch on airline XYZ and would pay an extra $50 for it, rather than just 'normal people' who buy based on price, we can usually find the types of seats used either on the web or here on a.net. Just a thought, because in a world where price has become king for many travellers, nobody really cares is airline XYZ offers 2" more leg room than airline ABC.


User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
Sure I dont mind a tight squeeze from London to Paris or LAX to Las Vegas, but Brisbane to LAX is an entirely different thing.

Then you as a consumer can have a direct say in the matter, and don't buy a ticket for a seat with poor room. Buy a J class, or go to another airline, and email the others explaining why. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- passengers are getting exactly what they asked for from the airlines. The cheapest possible seat, meals and comfort be damned. This isn't the airlines driving this, it's the customers demanding it, every time they buy a cheap seat. Don't ask others to regulate the industry, do it yourself by not supporting the new business model.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26601 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
I have wondered if the World Health Organisation shouldn't be mandating minimum seat standards for airline seating, based on the range of various airliners.

No. Using market economy, access to the world has become much less expensive for the average person and airlines have made a whole bundle of money when they have stuck to a legitimate business plan. Market economy should also determine what airlines set as their seating standards. While there are certain basic standards that should be met, one can get DVT flying in business and first class almost as easily as they can get it in economy. You just aren't supposed to be stationary for an ultra-prolonged period of time, particularly in the ambient conditions on an aircraft that aren't going to change if you add a couple more inches of pitch.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

I don't believe that the WHO has said that seat-pitch is the problem. Their recent report concerned any mode of transport where the passenger is seated for 4 hours, or more. Having 96" in F doesn't make a difference, if the passenger is seated upright and immobile for 4 hours.

There used to be an international organisation that regulated this stuff, at least for the network airlines. However governments no longer want IATA to do this on their behalf.


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 1):
If people were willing to pay more than rock bottom, basement fares then airlines wouldn't need to look for more ways to squeeze more people onto a plane to make money.

As has been pointed out in other threads, several airlines (ANA and JAL among them) have actually decreased the number of seats on some airplanes in order to increase revenue. It goes against CW around here, but the airlines that have tried it seem to be having success by replacing smaller, cheaper seats with larger, more expensive seats. People do pay for the larger, more expensive seats.

I think it's wrong to assume that the only way for airlines to make money is to cram as many people onto a plane as possible. The best way for an airline to make money is in fact the opposite - to attract passengers willing to pay a premium. The question is how to do that. But some airlines do seem to have figured out a working formula.

Of course, that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about minimum standards for those buying the cheapest seats. And I do think such standards should probably exist, just as they do for most other things that are potential health hazards. When you're talking about DVT, which is statistically more prevalent among economy class passengers than those in other classes (though it does happen in every class), it's not just a comfort issue.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 9):
Then you as a consumer can have a direct say in the matter, and don't buy a ticket for a seat with poor room. Buy a J class, or go to another airline, and email the others explaining why. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- passengers are getting exactly what they asked for from the airlines. The cheapest possible seat, meals and comfort be damned. This isn't the airlines driving this, it's the customers demanding it, every time they buy a cheap seat. Don't ask others to regulate the industry, do it yourself by not supporting the new business model.

OK, can you describe exactly how the average passenger, who is not a airline enthusiast nor has the online tools to do advanced booking, can easilly book an upgraded class flight without having to pay more than twice the cost of what that coach ticket will cost them (none of this "above full coach", that's not what they pay)? The fact is that any upgraded tickets on almost any airlines ends up costing well over two or three times the cost of their coach seat. People don't want the extra super luxuries, and certainly can't afford them. Most people have no idea how to book anything other than coach airfare anyways, a good portion of them probably don't know much more than there is coach and first. Ideally, yes you would just put your business to who does offer a better product. Except that no one is offering that product - too many industry insiders claim people only buy by price without any real foundation for those claims. So until you can easilly and offer a better alternative, these people don't have one.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5526 times:
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Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
A 34" seat pitch is worse than a 30" pitch if the 34" pitch seat is 4.5" thicker.

I thought the pitch was measured from a point in one row to the same point in the next row, so the thickness of the seat back is immaterial.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineEYKD From Russia, joined Dec 2006, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 14):
I thought the pitch was measured from a point in one row to the same point in the next row, so the thickness of the seat back is immaterial.

You're actually right. The thickness doesn't play role in pitch calculation. But thickness of your seat is important for you since it steals room for your body. Follow this link for quick explanation http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 13):
OK, can you describe exactly how the average passenger, who is not a airline enthusiast nor has the online tools to do advanced booking, can easilly book an upgraded class flight without having to pay more than twice the cost of what that coach ticket will cost them (none of this "above full coach", that's not what they pay)?

I can. People who want comfort don't care about cost.

Don't like cramped monkey class? A simple transaction of inputting your credit card number online will buy something better. Quite as simple as that, 2-30x the cost, you're paying for something entirely different, like comparing apples to oranges.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineSkyhigh From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 235 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

I was going to start my own thread but I might just sneak my whinge into this one instead.

What is happening to the width of economy class seats? Like already mentioned, the older aircraft tend to have the very comfortable seats that actually offer some padding and comfort. No AVOD, but no sore back and bum after a 14 hour flight.
I flew CA LHR-SYD in 2000 and the economy seats offered as much comfort as some business class seats on other airlines.
These days the seats are getting thinner and thinner and offer very little padding. I have to say that the worst culprit that I have flown recently has been VS LHR-SYD.
Airlines are actually trying to convince us that the thinner seats are for our greater comfort. Just how much thinner can they go?


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 17):
What is happening to the width of economy class seats?

Cost cutting. Airlines don't care about monkey class comfort and pax only care about price.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

There was a guy that did an ergonomics report on this. The optimum seat is 17-18" in width, has a 34" pitch with a 4" seat back and 4-6" of recline. Naturally, we're lucky to see the seat width. The rest is usually 31-32" and 2-3" recline.

User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):

I can. People who want comfort don't care about cost.

I think you are quite wrong on that. Where does this assumption (and it seems prevalent throughout the industry) come from? People value comfort. They just can't afford to spend triple their ticket price for a first class seat. People only really need a few more inches in leg room, and a couple more inches in width, and maybe a little more seat comfort. They don't necessarily need or want linen meal service, yards of legroom or fancy electric recline. That's overboard. But since practically no airlines offer anything in between, they have no choice. That's NOT a proven issue, in fact the success of airlines like Jet Blue and economy plus classes prove that point.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 19):
There was a guy that did an ergonomics report on this. The optimum seat is 17-18" in width, has a 34" pitch with a 4" seat back and 4-6" of recline. Naturally, we're lucky to see the seat width. The rest is usually 31-32" and 2-3" recline.

Really? Now THAT's a report I would love to see. Sounds a little suspicious to me.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Cloudboy- As an experiment, I visited 3 airlines websites, and immediately found details on seat pitch, width, configuration, meals, etc. If a pax wants to compare econo class between two airlines (and that's what I'm talking about here), it's easy.
No computer? Ask the travel agaent. Or call the airline direct. Personally, if it's one hour, the service and seats don't matter. But 4-5 hours, or transoceanic, it becomes a big deal. But the consumer easily has the ability to look beyond the ticket price, only I don't think most do.


User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 21):
Cloudboy- As an experiment, I visited 3 airlines websites, and immediately found details on seat pitch, width, configuration, meals, etc. If a pax wants to compare econo class between two airlines (and that's what I'm talking about here), it's easy.
No computer? Ask the travel agaent. Or call the airline direct. Personally, if it's one hour, the service and seats don't matter. But 4-5 hours, or transoceanic, it becomes a big deal. But the consumer easily has the ability to look beyond the ticket price, only I don't think most do.

So then tell me, who offers a wider seat? There's only one airline in the US that does in coach, and that is Midwest. But the fact is few people even look at an airline's website - this has been the one thing haunting JetBlue. Most people book through gateways, which don't really show any of that information, nor make it easily accessible for someone who knows absolutely nothing about airlines or cabins to make a choice.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Thread starter):
For Example, maybe the criteria could be put into categories

Short Range Flights (Under 3 hours)

Long Range Flights (Over 3 hours)

Should flight delays be added to that? While the 6 Hour + delays with people sitting in the airplane are rare.... and extra hour or so is a lot more common.

Not sure how to explain it; but one of my recent flights went something like this....

Full aircraft gets loaded a bit early - and departs gate about 5 minutes early.... Everyone is all smiles.

We sit in taxiways for about 45 minutes such that we actually take off about 1/2 hour behind schedule... Many people are frowning as the weather is really great and Portland is not that busy.

Actual flight time to Minneapolis is better than expected and we land smoothly without any delays... Everyone is all smiles....

We then sit on taxi ways for a while, then taxi what must have been almost all around the airport (if not totally around the airport), and get to a gate about 45 minutes after the plane landed. The weather is great... Many people are frowning.

All told the plane arrived at that Minneapolis gate about an hour behind schedule. Good thing I had planned two hours between my connection as I wanted to meet someone in Minneapolis. Given the circumstances we never met as I didn't think there was time for me to exit the secure area and reenter again.

No one ever explained what the holdup was on takeoff nor on getting to a gate after landing.

I've marked this down as one of my "strange" flights.

Back to topic; if there are going to standards on time of flight and personal space... should that be based on time on aircraft and not flight?


User currently offlineKLAM From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5018 times:
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Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 18):
Cost cutting. Airlines don't care about monkey class comfort and pax only care about price.



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 21):
But 4-5 hours, or transoceanic, it becomes a big deal. But the consumer easily has the ability to look beyond the ticket price, only I don't think most do.

Hi there, I am quite new in this forum, but have been watching it for long, I enjoy reading it a lot.
I think I have a very strong opinion on this matter, and while what you say is true, there is indeed another side. From my personal experience, I have always loved to travel and get to know other places, and I would love to travel in comfort and luxury, nevertheless, I can barely afford to buy a deeply discounted economy ticket. If I had the money I would pay for business or even first, but the truth is I wish I could afford a premium economy ticket.
As a matter of fact I do look beyond the price, but certainly I do not produce 50 dollar bills everytime I go to the bathroom, and it is hard for me to get money, so it is either flying business or staying in a clean decent hotel.

Another thing is that Economy Class tickets are not particularly cheap either, the cheapest you can get a MEX - Europe with a three to six month anticipation is @ 850 USD, and since it is not always possible to book in such advance as agendas change so much, many people book with an anticipation bewteen one up to four months, and by then you can get your "shit price-shit deserving ticket" in 1200 USD (the lowest). 1200 USD is not cheap, specially for what you get: In BA you get your 31" pitch extra padded seat that eats some of those 31", say 4", so now you have something like 27", you get the footrest that whenever the seat in front of you reclines, it buries in your legs and hurts and a personal TV that is about the only good thing . I don't care about the food, for it is randomly good, and the goodies they give you are nonsense.

It is a pity airlines only invest in their Business and First classes, and cuts economy, as I said before I would pay J or F or their discounted versions if I had the money, and if you guys state that the real money is in the expensive classes, then I don't see why airlines don't invest a little in Y. A year ago I took a MEX-AMS flight and it was amazing, no PTV, no headrest, food was not gourmet, but I had enough legroom, no box underneath, seats were wide enough, it was 744 Combi "City of Seoul", which still had the old seats, and I ask myself why don't airlines return to that?
I also did MEX-EZE-MEX in Mexicana and it was wonderful, there was 36" pitch in Economy class, no PTV's or other sophisticated spacelooking seats and devices, but it was by far the most comfortable Y class ever, and believe me, they do win a lot of money in those routes. THE FACT WE ARE FLYING ECONOMY DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE FLYING FOR FREE, we did pay, and payed what would be a good amount, so I guess we deserve a bit better.

By the way, I don't think First class is worth seven times the Y full fare.


Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 20):
I think you are quite wrong on that. Where does this assumption (and it seems prevalent throughout the industry) come from? People value comfort. They just can't afford to spend triple their ticket price for a first class seat. People only really need a few more inches in leg room, and a couple more inches in width, and maybe a little more seat comfort. They don't necessarily need or want linen meal service, yards of legroom or fancy electric recline. That's overboard. But since practically no airlines offer anything in between, they have no choice. That's NOT a proven issue, in fact the success of airlines like Jet Blue and economy plus classes prove that point

I completely agree with what you say, I don't know why people get heated and haughty when this topic is discussed, it is for the good of everybody, I mean if there was a company with a really good economy class (not eco +) these people would think twice in paying business or first and would save some really good dollars, and if they don't want to, they will still get their magnificent service, space and food, so why they care so much about airlines being a bit more generous to Y passengers?

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
can. People who want comfort don't care about cost.

Don't like cramped monkey class? A simple transaction of inputting your credit card number online will buy something better. Quite as simple as that, 2-30x the cost, you're paying for something entirely different, like comparing apples to oranges.

So basically the Airlines' revenge on people who are cheapos or cannot afford higher costs is crowding them into a small seat? Did you know that coach cabins are completely unsanitary places? there is a bit more than 9 people crowded in a bit less than 4 squarred meters giving a ratio of @ 2.5 people / squarred meter, that is, too many people close from each other, if somebody is sick with an infectious disease, you are likely to get it as well (not to mention people with a poor personal hygiene), plus due to pressure, humidity and temperature conditions, inmune system is somehow depressed, adding to this the fact that the lack of sleep and poor blood circulation might worsen it, additionally some germs are stuck in due to air circulation, so DVT is not the only issue we should worry about while flying coach (yeah F and J payers might get it as well, but they have a lower risk because of space and movility opportunity), so I don't see why there is no regulation to add a little tiny bit of comfort to coach flyers.

Regards,

KL-AM



flyOM
25 Avt007 : OK, I'll try again. Airline A offers decent pitch, hot meal service on china plates, and free drinks in economy class. (The way it was in Canada years
26 Cloudboy : No, People aren't going to suddenly up and abandon airline A simply because of $50. They abandon airline A because airline B offers not only the same
27 DLPMMM : Sorry Cloudboy, but history shows you are wrong. The world's largest airline (AA) tried exactly what you are talking about with their MRTC program (Mo
28 KLAM : You are totally right here, I agree completely with you, however, I was talking about Long haul flights (more than 8 hours), in short haul, service h
29 Jimbo27L : Surely the "extra legroom" issue can be solved with Premuim economy style cabins. BA's World traveller + is a god send for me. It surprises me that mo
30 DLPMMM : Because most of the Y pax will just fly on a different airline with a lower price. People say they will pay more for a little more room in Y in surve
31 Post contains links Enginebird : I started a similar thread a few weeks ago and I am all with you , click here , but back then I got flamed at as "communist", "Marxist" and "probably
32 Cloudboy : This is a great example of how the problem lies not with what people will spend, but with a preconceived notion that people WON'T spend any more. Yes
33 Avt007 : My point exactly. Moaning and complaining about airlines is practically a national sport here in Canada, and around the world. "I paid $79 for a 2 ho
34 GerbenYYZ : This is true, however, anytime that I travel for business I have to justify the cost. When flights are searched for and compared, the bottom line goe
35 Cloudboy : Right. And that is a big part of the advertising bit. When you are charging $150 for what is essentially two paper clips worth more room to your boss
36 GerbenYYZ : That I completely agree with, else we will end up with standing room only on flights! The problem then becomes, should this be legislated by the gove
37 A340600 : The UK regulation of 26" scares me, has any airline ever actually gone that low? 28" is tough enough but 26" seems unimagineable for someone over 6foo
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